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Ancient Polish History thread


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Crow
Edited by: Crow  Apr 13, 08, 16:09  #121

isthatu2:
Crow,hand on heart,I thank you for your fascinating contributions in this thread...see,we really are all brothers/brates.:) Being that it seems Poles are part slav part viking part celt and Brits are part celt part viking...lets all have manly bear hugs and make up? Right,who can we all gang up against?;)

there is two options for you then

1. you should spiritualy return to Mother Slavia

or

2. learn to respect choice of those who stayed Slavs

whatever your path can be, i can found strenght to tolerate you

:)


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Franek
  Apr 13, 08, 16:22  #122

How about this.

The Polish White Eagle
A thousand years ago, or maybe even more, there lived three brothers, Lech, Czech, and Rus. For many years they had been content in their villages, but the families grew larger and they needed more room to live.
The brothers decided to travel in different directions to search for new homes. Lech, Czech, and Rus traveled with their troops for many days. They rode their horses over mountains and rivers, through forests and wild country. There were no people to be found anywhere, not a town or tiny village. On the crest of a mountain top, they separated, each going in a different direction. Czech went to the left, Rus went to the right and Lech rode straight ahead, down the mountain and across vast plains.

One day Lech saw a spendid sight. He and his troops had come to a place where a meadow surrounded a small lake. They stopped at the edge of the meadow as a great eagle flew over their heads. It flew around in great swooping circles, then perched on its nest, high on a craggy rock. Lech stared in awe at the beautiful sight. As the eagle spread its wings and soared into the heavens again, a ray of sunshine from the red setting sun fell on the eagle's wings, so they appeared tipped with gold, the rest of the bird was pure white.

"Here is where we will stay!" declared Lech. "Here is our new home, and we will call this place GNIEZNO ... (the eagle's nest).

He and his people built many houses and it became the center of his territory. They called themselves Polonians, which means "People of the Field". They made a banner with a white eagle on a red field and flew it over the town of Gniezno, which became the first historical capital of Poland.

And, now you know how Poland began . .

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southern
Edited by: southern  Apr 13, 08, 16:23  #123

Crow:
From the bottom of the hell, via Anatolia, Evil Serpent of Ottoman hordes come to swallow Serbian Empire and whole Europe then. As, respond – Dragon from the oldest Slavic traditions was needed once again.


Dragon against serpent.Slavic history is fascinating.
I have noticed that all kings whether in Poland,Czech or Ukraine have the ending -slav in their first names.Boleslaw,Swiatoslaw,etc.It cannot be a coincidence.

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Crow
  Apr 13, 08, 16:26  #124

Franek:
How about this.

amazing

thank you Franek.

nice story before good night :)


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isthatu2
  Apr 13, 08, 16:26  #125

Crow:
learn to respect choice of those who stayed Slavs

whatever your path can be, i can found strenght to tolerate you

:)

Ok,if you learn to respect paths of those who chose not to :)


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Crow
  Apr 13, 08, 16:33  #126

isthatu2:
Ok,if you learn to respect paths of those who chose not to :)

read what i said. I told you


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Crow
Edited by: Crow  Apr 15, 08, 13:54  #127

Franek:
He and his people built many houses and it became the center of his territory. They called themselves Polonians, which means "People of the Field".

nice example why we need discussion

to become "People of the Field", people need first to live as nomadic ethnic/tribal formation depending on the food which can be found (collected) in nature. Fact that Poles are "People of the Field", lead to conclusion that Poles behind themselves has long and continual evolution of their way of life. Ultimate conclusion must be that Poles (Slavs in general) are on their own for much longer period then many can imagine or could be ready to admit...

southern:
I have noticed that all kings whether in Poland,Czech or Ukraine have the ending -slav in their first names.Boleslaw,Swiatoslaw,etc.It cannot be a coincidence.

Scientific fact is that Polish national name reffering on people who depended on agriculture. In general, names/designations of Slavic nations/people has deeper meaning and sense then, designation [of how to say]- names of younger ethoses. Same is with personal Slavic names, designations for places, rivers and mountains.

southern:
Slavic history is fascinating.

more you can imagine, more you can imagine


Reconstruction drawing by Gerry Embleton, showing a Sarmatian in Roman service, based on the Chester stele as well as the 'dog' draco from Trajans Column.

more on Dragon in Sarmatian simbolism...




southern:
Dragon against serpent

in it`s essence it should be understand as constant metaphisical battle between good and evil


Dragon (good) Vs. Serpent (evil)


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isthatu2
  Apr 15, 08, 15:01  #128

Crow:
Reconstruction drawing by Gerry Embleton, showing a Sarmatian in Roman service, based on the Chester stele as well as the 'dog' draco from Trajans Column.

But wait,I thought it was only us false westers that were Romen lackey's? :)
Keep up the posts crow,spot on.


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Crow
Edited by: Crow  Apr 17, 08, 16:00  #129

Source for previous pictures...

The Draco, the Late Roman military standard
http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm

here you can read more in case with Sarmatian influence on Romans (and not only them)

just few quotations:

It may have been used primarily to determine the wind-direction for the horse archers. Arrian described it as a long sleeve, 'made by sewing pieces of dyed material together'. This sleeve/tube hung limp when the rider was at rest, but on the move it flew like a serpent and whistled in the wind. The hollow head, in the form of a toothed dragon, was formed from metal and the wind passing through it would extend the cloth tube tail attached to the neck of the head.

The Draco was adopted first into the Roman cavalry during the 2nd century AD, possibly with the introduction of Sarmatian cavalry into the Roman army.

Note how old historians always (usualy in articles that i sow) confuse Scythians with Sarmatians or simple- in many chronicles, consider them as kin ethoses. In general, Scythians were branch of Sarmatians (Slavs) but seams almost exclusively nomadic, while those Slavic tribes which were dirrectly designated as Sarmatians were bearers of knowlage of agriculture (not only that). Today`s Slavic nations (and many of those who originates from Slavs but aren`t Slavs anymore) are mixture of those nomadic and tribes orriented on agriculture. Also, Sarmatians introduced knowlage of heavy cavalery to Romans (what would later ultimately evolved in Serbian Racowie and Polish winged cavalery, husars, etc.) and Scythians knowlage of horse archery (possibly, later evolved into Cossacks).
Arrian, who was writing c. 137 AD, described it as a Scythian (he most probably meant Sarmatian) invention which was adopted by Roman cavalry...


We already mentioned here (see page 3), Sarmatian (Slavic) origin of King Arthur Pendragon...


King Arthur in combat, brandishing a draco. From L'Histoire de Merlin by Robert de Boron (14th C.).


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isthatu2
  Apr 17, 08, 16:28  #130

Fantastic stuff crow,thanks.
So the Draco came from the auxiliary cavalry,cool,and our "Once and future King " also went into battle with one? Even better. Love those Arthurian legends.


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expatriot
  Apr 18, 08, 13:17  #131

Excellent thread !! i always wanted to know about ancient polish history !

Im trying to discover my polish roots. I dont know that much..im half :))

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Crow
Edited by: Crow  Apr 18, 08, 17:34  #132

Crow:
It may have been used primarily to determine the wind-direction for the horse archers. Arrian described it as a long sleeve, 'made by sewing pieces of dyed material together'. This sleeve/tube hung limp when the rider was at rest, but on the move it flew like a serpent and whistled in the wind. The hollow head, in the form of a toothed dragon, was formed from metal and the wind passing through it would extend the cloth tube tail attached to the neck of the head.

here we see that use of Dragon battle standards had even practical meaning.

I have one digression on this, having in mind great ancient knowledge presented from our Slavic ancestors.

Remind yourself on Serbian Racowie and Polish Winged cavalry, for a moment [see this]...


Commonwealth Hussar, wings visible. Painting by Aleksander Or³owski

http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/polcrt/WingedHussar.html

POLISH HUSSARS

The hussars were generally the elite of the Polish armey and their men had excellent fighting and equestrian skills. They were generally feared by the Russians, Swedes, Turks, and Tartars. Since the seventeen century was a time of war, the Poles had to fight to save their land, their natural resources, and trade routes. Sweden, Muscovy, Turkey, the Tartars, and the Cossacks all were hell-bent on destroying Poland.

By the 17th century, Polish hussars were held in even higher esteem and they made their own style of dress. The wings were of Serbian origin too. It was thought the wings were made to defend the backs of the men against swords and lassos, but modern theory is that they were used as intimidation. The noise and appearance of the feathers in the wind would spook the enemy's horses. The wings were mounted on a brass-edged wooden frame. The feathers were inserted into this frame, which was mounted on brackets or hinges (see illustration above). The wooden poles were arched at the top.

What you people say on this example of martial skill and ancient knowledge in general? That is just one of many proofs that Slavic culture/existance has long continuity in time and space. Can you imagine those conditions and times when such a knowladge was extracted (to use wings/feathers as intimidation or to use Dragon battle standard to be aware of wind durrection!!!). Increadible how ancient simbolism had even practical side.

Same as Dragon tradition, Racowie (Husar/Gusar) martial concept was spread accross the Europe (not only Europe)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar

Light hussars

A type of irregular light horsemen, already well established by the 15th century. The word hussar derives from the Hungarian huszár. Originally, it derives from the Serbian word `gusar` (Cyrillic: гусар) meaning bandit, pirate. According to an alternate theory, the word is derived from the Hungarian word of húsz meaning twenty, suggesting that hussar regiments were originally composed of twenty men. Initially they fought in small bands indeed, but were reorganised into a strong, highly-trained and motivated formation during the reign of King Matthias I Corvinus of Hungary. Under his command the units took part in the war against the Ottoman Empire in 1485 and proved successful against the Turkish Spahis as well as Bohemians and Poles. After the king's death in 1490 many hussars fled to other Central and Western European countries and became the core of similar light cavalry formations created there.


If one start to examine traces of Slavic contribution to global heritage of whites and whole mankind, he must admit that Slavs are amazing. Slavic history was too often written by hostile foreigners. Today, we live in time when Slavic history faces its revolution. I wish to all of us that we enjoy and inform ouselves because, only informed persons are capable to endure chalanges of life. Let our past serve to future of our children.


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MareGaea
  Apr 18, 08, 17:43  #133

Crow:
Remind yourself on Serbian Racowie and Polish Winged cavalry, for a moment


I knew it! Everything is traceable back to Serbia :) Polish winged huzzars...At what phase in evolution did they lose their wings?

M-G


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isthatu2
  Apr 18, 08, 17:44  #134

Crow:
Same as Dragon tradition, Racowie (Husar/Gusar) martial concept was spread accross the Europe

Your right there crow,Britains "modern"cavalry (ie,when mounted cavalry was still being used) owes almost all its uniform and many of its traditions in one way or another to those ancient Slavic horsemen. When our forces met the Polish and "Polish" cavalry of Napoleon in battle they met their inspiration. Soon after our Lancers became the main stay of the cavalry and even adopted the four pointed flat topped helmet. The Red and White pennent is also ,to this day,to be seen near the tips of the Lances carried byt the cavalry guarding the Queen.


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Crow
  May 10, 08, 18:19  #135

Pratush:
the ancient history of Poland would basically go into ancient slavic history and mythology....

Not necessarily if we take `pro et contra` political reasons for discussion about ancient past of Poland. But, if we insist to operates with scientific and historic facts, that’s how it is.

And, again, we are aware of politics. Why, in this particular case?

It’s because, scientific facts and historic truth, almost same as falsified history, could be objects of manipulations in order to satisfy some political goal, interests of some political elite, etc, etc. [BDW, it also can be good fun]

So, we should avoid all eventual traps in our journey through Polish and Slavic past in general. We must be aware that Slavic history was too often written by those who conquered Slavs and, seams that we also must be aware of political consequences of truth. Here, transparency and public discussion could help (God bless internet!).

I vote for truth in case with Slavic (Polish) past so that our young generation’s could learn and remember. Without knowledge about our own past, we can’t avoid same mistakes. Not to mention, that serious examination of Slavic past can open real new frontiers in case with our knowledge of universal human past. Our past, our present, our future, all is our contribution to our kind and then to complete mankind. All counts


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Crow
Edited by: Crow  Today, 11:54  #136

I wonder, if you ever heard for Sarmizegetuza?

Do we have time to remind ourselves of Sarmizegetuza for a moment, in this modern and so fast era?


Sarmizegetuza should be remembered from all Sarmatians, so i would speak about that place here, in this thread dedicated to ancient times.

It was place in today`s Romania. But, before Romania those lands were part of Sarmatia, more concrete, there was Dacia and Dacians, children of Slavia. Sarmizegetuza was capital of Dacia.

This is story about time, when population of Dacia was slain almost entirely to ground zero and replaced with new settlers with different ethnic and even different racial characteristics. That`s how branch of Sarmatians was exterminated, some of them managed to escape and some were romanized.

Let fallen Sarmatians rest in peace. Their resistance should be remembered and mentioned...


Roman soldiers building a bridge and a mountain road in Dacia, from Trajan's Column. Note the heads on pikes at the right.

Battle of Adamclisi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adamclisi

Battle of Adamclisi was a major battle , in 92 AD when a coalition of Dacian and Rhoxolani sarmatian completely slaughtered the Legio XXI Rapax[1]

Dacian king benefited from this, and made out a plan along with the neighboring allied tribes of the Roxolans and Bastarnae, to attack south of the Danube, in the Roman province of Moesia, in an attempt to force the Romans to leave their positions in the mountains near Sarmizegetusa.

First Battle of Tapae

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Tapae

Two battles took place at Tapae under the Roman Emperor Domitian in order to protect the Roman province of Moesia, nearly two decades before the regional conquest during the Dacian wars in Trajan's reign, one in 87 AD and one in 88 AD.

Second Battle of Tapae

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tapae

The Roman army crossed the Danube at Viminacium, slowly making its way into Dacia. Just like in 87/88, the battle took place at Tapae. The Dacians resisted the Roman offensive, but as a storm broke out, the Dacians believing it is a sign from the Gods, decided to withdraw.

Battle of Sarmisegetusa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sarmisegetusa

The Battle of Sarmisegetusa (also spelled Sarmizegethusa) was a siege of Sarmizegetusa, the capital of Dacia, fought in 106 between the army of the Roman Emperor Trajan, and the Dacians led by King Decebalus.

The Roman forces approached Sarmizegetuza in three main columns. The first column crossed the bridge built by Apollodorus of Damascus, and then followed the valleys of rivers Cerna and Timiº up to Tibiscum. They then turned on the valley of the river Bistra, through the Tara Hategului depression.

NOTE: names of rivers

Dacian treasure which, according to Jerome Carcopino (p.73), consisted of 165,000 kilograms of pure gold and 331,000 kilograms of silver in the bed of the Sergetia River (Cassius Dio 68.14).

Losses sustained in this war by the Dacians were tremendous, but the Roman army also took significant casualties in the conquest of Dacia. The first Dacian rebellion against Roman rule would coincide with the death of Trajan, in 117, showing impact the Emperor had on the Dacians after the war. Even in modern Romanian folklore (Romanians being the descendants of Romanized Dacians),...



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