Poor Poland?

Quoting: slwkk

Ok, I've changed my mind due to BubbaWoo PM. In some cases buying a flat and taking a mortgage loan can be good investment, and it doesn't look that bad when you notice some possibilities. I also think that many of us (Poles) do not pay attention on long-term investments, we just look for sth that we can make money on quite fast, say in first 2 or 3 years.

Commo30	Aug 6, 07, 12:52 / #
I live in Australia and just recently been to Poland(Wroclaw). Most people at my age are driving better cars then we do here. Bars and clubs full of people. Rasict Poland? I've been there with my asian girlfriend. People were very nice and friendly(not like in au where actually is still problem with racism). Cheers

Wyspianska	Edited by: Wyspianska Aug 6, 07, 12:55 / #
Well, u was in quite big city. Maybe u should visit east of Poland and specially small villages. Then u will have some objective view.

Commo30	Aug 6, 07, 13:12 / #
Well, go to small town in Australia

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Aug 6, 07, 13:20 / #
You need to understand the motifs of Poles who buy stuff in Poland. Most of them cannot afford to buy a house (or don't like the idea of paying 40 year mortgage for an apartment) so they focus on buying less expensive things, like good cars, computers etc.

Commo30	Aug 6, 07, 13:33 / #
Young ppl in au cannot afford buying a house as well. What i want to say is i've been to Poland and it is great. I cannot believe ppl are complaining about this country. People are very, very friendly, its not that expensive(although not as cheap as i thought ie petrol is really expensive) Anyway i fell in love with this country and i don't understand why there is so negative feeling (especially poles) towards it.

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Aug 6, 07, 13:36 / #
Visiting Poland (or any other country) on vacation is always great. I was in Costa Rica once and it was great being there; still, most natives didn't look happy despite of great weather, good food, and nice beaches. If you have to live on an average salary in Poland the reality isn't that bright and pink...

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07	Aug 7, 07, 14:00 / #
Quoting: Commo30 Well, go to small town in Australia I liked the small towns in Australia.

PoznanManThreads: - Posts: 10 Joined: Aug 14, 07	Aug 14, 07, 07:18 / #
Grass and it's colour. I travelled to Poland in 1992 and I thought it was great, this was a long time before all the good changes happened - like 24 hour petrol stations, large hyper markets and shopping malls, restuarants with food, pubs with well dressed people.. this was before Poland was in the EU and had MUCH higher unemployment. Now people have choice and the possibility f getting employment and jobs in the rest of Europe.. so why are some Polish people not happy??

MariusThreads: - Posts: 13 Joined: Aug 14, 07	Aug 16, 07, 06:40 / #
Quoting: hello ou need to understand the motifs of Poles who buy stuff in Poland. Most of them cannot afford to buy a house (or don't like the idea of paying 40 year mortgage for an apartment) so they focus on buying less expensive things, like good cars, computers etc. I am just wondering how this is structured in PL: ppl can afford to buy luxury things and not afford a mortgage. Surely they must have rent to pay for their houses; so how come the difference in PL b/w mortgage payments and rent payments is so large that ppl can afford luxury items with the money they save paying rent rather than a mortgage?

slwkkThreads: 3 Posts: 249 Joined: Mar 31, 07	Edited by: slwkk Aug 16, 07, 07:36 / #
Quoting: Marius I am just wondering how this is structured in PL: ppl can afford to buy luxury things and not afford a mortgage. Let me show you sth... let's imagine quite successful man, 30 yrs old, who live in Warsaw or Cracov and earns quite good money - 6000 PLN. Let's suppose he lives alone, normal guy who wanted to make a career before getting married. All costs of living in Warsaw/Cracov : 3000 PLN, holiday twice a year - 5000-6000PLN, car insurance - 2000 PLN .. unusuall spendings (some clothes, girls and rather small gadgets) 5000 PLN yearly. Ok, let's see how does it look.... he earns yearly 72000 PLN, spends ~45-50k PLN so he can save 22 - 27k PLN (say 25k pln). New flat in Warsaw/Cracov - 400-500k PLN.... it means he can afford to buy a new flat (without any credits) after ~18 years. I don't know about other people, but if were him I wouldn't save the money to buy my own flat... I would rather try to live life to the full and then I would like to invest some money, set some business or sth like that. In my opinion we should enjoy our life while we are still young.... - and I thinks that many people in big cities think the same way.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Aug 16, 07, 08:22 / #
with all due respect slwkk, judging by what you have written you obviously dont know how it works... and 18 years down the line our "quite successful man, 30 yrs old" will be kicking himself that he didnt take out a mortgage of his own and instead paid somebody elses... probably a foreign investor...

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Aug 16, 07, 08:36 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo "quite successful man, 30 yrs old" will be kicking himself that he didnt take out a mortgage of his own and instead paid somebody elses... probably a foreign investor... very true, and the mortgage payments will stay the same over 18 years, rents will rise in that time. I had to remortgage 5 years ago when I got divorced, I have 20 years left on the mortgage, I've just taken out another mortgage fixed rate for the next 10 years, so I know my payments won't change. In 20 years I'll have no mortgage and no rent, and I will have the equity in the house to use should times get hard and i need the cash, instead of contributing to a landlords bank account

slwkkThreads: 3 Posts: 249 Joined: Mar 31, 07	Edited by: slwkk Aug 16, 07, 08:41 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo with all due respect slwkk, judging by what you have written you obviously dont know how it works... and 18 years down the line our "quite successful man, 30 yrs old" will be kicking himself that he didnt take out a mortgage of his own and instead paid somebody elses... probably a foreign investor... Ok, I've just done some basic research. I'm not a specialist about these things so I may be terribly wrong, but... let's see. The main thing in mortgage is that we take it and bank give us $ to buy a flat. Then we pay it back month by month for xx years + bank takes some percent of money.... I've found some 'mortgage calculators' and how does it look... typical nominal interest rate = ~ 3%. If we take 500.000 PLN mortgage loan for 20 years, then we will have to pay back 665.000 PLN, montly it will be ~2700 PLN. My information are based on : http://online.kredyt-hipoteczny.biz.pl/kredytymieszkaniowe/0/20/ and http://kalkulator.kredyt-hipoteczny.biz.pl/ This topic is far more complicated, but this are only general calculations. If I'm 30 yrs old how can I be sure that for next 20 years I will live in the same city? Today I work in Warsaw/Cracov, next year maybe I will have to move somewhere else. In my opinion mortgage is a good solution for people 40+ years old who want stabilization.

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Aug 16, 07, 08:57 / #
Quoting: slwkk typical nominal interest rate = ~ 3%. i wish I could get a mortgage with that low an interest rate, the thing is, in 20 years time, hopefully, the value of the property will be equal to if not more than the cost of the loan, also you can move, just remortgage, plus you can use the equity from the property you are selling towards the purchase of teh new property

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Aug 16, 07, 08:10 / #
Quoting: hello (or don't like the idea of paying 40 year mortgage for an apartment) or just dont understand how the mortgage system works... Quoting: Marius Surely they must have rent to pay for their houses; so how come the difference in PL b/w mortgage payments and rent payments is so large that ppl can afford luxury items with the money they save paying rent rather than a mortgage? rent is often equivalent to a mortgage payment so that arguement goes out the window... i think the crux of the matter is the ostentacious display that can be made driving around in a fast car, with good clothes and an expensive mobile as vs. that of owning a flat... Quoting: slwkk it means he can afford to buy a new flat (without any credits) after ~18 years. I don't know about other people, but if were him I wouldn't save the money to buy my own flat... yup, people just dont have a clue about how mortgages work...

slwkkThreads: 3 Posts: 249 Joined: Mar 31, 07	Aug 16, 07, 08:17 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo yup, people just dont have a clue about how mortgages work... I know how does it work, but I said without any credits. With a mortgage he can buy a flat almost immediately, but then even 18 years wouldn't be enough to pay it back.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Aug 16, 07, 09:01 / #
PMed you slwkk

kneehawkThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: May 17, 07	Aug 16, 07, 09:12 / #
You are right Daisy,although he could cover his liability with capital appreciation in 5 years!

slwkkThreads: 3 Posts: 249 Joined: Mar 31, 07	Aug 16, 07, 16:13 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo PMed you slwkk Ok, I've changed my mind due to BubbaWoo PM. In some cases buying a flat and taking a mortgage loan can be good investment, and it doesn't look that bad when you notice some possibilities. I also think that many of us (Poles) do not pay attention on long-term investments, we just look for sth that we can make money on quite fast, say in first 2 or 3 years.

dbart22Threads: 3 Posts: 20 Joined: Jun 19, 07	Aug 16, 07, 17:28 / #
hey yall what does 20000 us dollars equal in poland.?

Lady in red	Aug 16, 07, 17:47 / #
Quoting: dbart22 hey yall what does 20000 us dollars equal in poland.? hey, there's loads of online exchange convertors.......have a look !!! It even works it out for you.......good innit !! :)

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Aug 16, 07, 17:51 / #
Quoting: dbart22 hey yall what does 20000 us dollars equal in poland.? About 56,000 Zlotych

lefThreads: 13 Posts: 564 Joined: Jun 27, 06	Aug 17, 07, 01:39 / #
Quoting: slwkk Ok, I've changed my mind due to BubbaWoo PM. In some cases buying a flat and taking a mortgage loan can be good investment, and it doesn't look that bad when you notice some possibilities. I also think that many of us (Poles) do not pay attention on long-term investments, we just look for sth that we can make money on quite fast, say in first 2 or 3 years. You seem pretty easy to fool, the points to consider here is that Polish property is overpriced and don't be fooled in thinking otherwise, secondly average income is still very low compared to that of other countries, ie income and price of houses ration, check out what people in other countries pay for a house and what they earn, if your lucky enough to earn 3000zl a month you would be probably looking for your last zlote before your next pay arrives, let alone pay for a mortgage and cost associated with owning a house. Some of our English property advisor's have still a lot to learn perhaps they still believe in what they read in the comics

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Aug 17, 07, 02:21 / #
Quoting: lef lef what made you so bitter and twisted?

slwkkThreads: 3 Posts: 249 Joined: Mar 31, 07	Aug 17, 07, 02:26 / #
Quoting: lef You seem pretty easy to fool, the points to consider here is that Polish property is overpriced and don't be fooled in thinking otherwise, you have no idea what we were talking about, so please don't bother...

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Aug 17, 07, 02:28 / #
Quoting: slwkk you have no idea what we were talking about, so please don't bother... I'm sure Bubba gave you good, solid advice, after all, he does own property in Poland himself.

lefThreads: 13 Posts: 564 Joined: Jun 27, 06	Aug 17, 07, 02:29 / #
Quoting: Daisy what made you so bitter and twisted? lol, I though I was pretty sweet, as for twisted, I'm not gay but straight!

slwkkThreads: 3 Posts: 249 Joined: Mar 31, 07	Aug 17, 07, 02:32 / #
Quoting: Daisy I'm sure Bubba gave you good, solid advice, after all, he does own property in Poland himself. yes, indeed, and he gave me some examples how does it work, but lef seems to think that now I'm gonna be a new player on real estate market - don't worry lef, not yet and not in Poland.

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Aug 17, 07, 02:33 / #
Quoting: lef I'm not gay but straight! who mentioned gay? not me, a Freudian slip on your part I think

lefThreads: 13 Posts: 564 Joined: Jun 27, 06	Aug 17, 07, 02:38 / #
Quoting: Daisy who mentioned gay? not me, a Freudian slip on your part I think lol, we can laugh but you know what I meant, do you want me to prove the point?