Chicago Public Radio on *Polish* concentration camps

Quoting: cezarek

On the one hand, saying 'Polish concentration camps' shows a spectacular misunderstanding of history, on the other hand, objecting so strongly to it shows a spectacular misunderstanding of the English language and the attitudes to nationality of the culture that gave rise to it.

annab3Threads: 1 Posts: 24 Joined: Nov 6, 05	Edited by: annab3 Dec 5, 07, 21:09 / #
Last Monday, Dec. 3, 2007, on the show “Boston symphony performs works by French composer,” the sentence that caught my ear was that the featured French composer's character, a French resistance hero, was at some point of his life, “sent to a Polish concentration camp.” What an inaccurate and uneducated statement! Here is the audio link (Windows Media) - 2:30 min into the report. There have never been any "Polish" concentration camps anywhere in the world. Concentration camps were the invention of Germans, so let the Germans take credit for them. Please next time, beloved Chicago Public Radio, do take precautions not to spread shady statements to twist the history and do expect your reporters to do their homework. Some lessons in the international history would be a good start. Otherwise, next thing we will hear will be that Poland started the Second World War. So just to make things straight, the poor man was sent by Germans to a German concentration camp, which was located on the Polish soil; the report did not name the camp however. Poland at that time was ruled by the invader and occupying force, Germany, and thousands of Poles, along other nations, were killed in those infamous concentration camps.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Dec 6, 07, 02:42 / #
Quoting: annab3 Concentration camps were the invention of Germans, so let the Germans take credit for them. Some would argue that they were the invention of the British........... in South Africa.

inkrakow	Dec 6, 07, 02:59 / #
Unbelievable! Have you written to them to complain?

cezarekThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Nov 26, 07	Dec 6, 07, 08:01 / #
On the one hand, saying 'Polish concentration camps' shows a spectacular misunderstanding of history, on the other hand, objecting so strongly to it shows a spectacular misunderstanding of the English language and the attitudes to nationality of the culture that gave rise to it. A friend here in Warsaw was getting really upset about a news report referring to 'Polish concentration camps'. I don't blame him and understand why people here don't like it. The same guy though, thinks nothing of referring to Malbork as a 'Polish castle'. Either 'German concentration camps' and 'German castle', or 'Polish castle' and 'Polish concentration camps'. It just shows that not everything is as simple as it seems.

inkrakow	Dec 6, 07, 08:25 / #
I'm astonished that you think there is a valid comparison between Malbork and Auschwitz

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Dec 6, 07, 13:00 / #
Quoting: cezarek On the one hand, saying 'Polish concentration camps' shows a spectacular misunderstanding of history, on the other hand, objecting so strongly to it shows a spectacular misunderstanding of the English language and the attitudes to nationality of the culture that gave rise to it. No, this was probably not an example of the 'latitude of the English language'...National Public Radio in the US, at both the local & national level, are controlled by Jewsih administrators, broadcasters & fund-raisers, and they repeat holocaust propaganda ad infinitum...yet the make no mention of the current Palestinian holocaust...Why is this?

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: Dice Dec 6, 07, 13:15 / #
Quoting: joepilsudski National Public Radio in the US, at both the local & national level, are controlled by Jewsih You are a tard. Quoting: annab3 “sent to a Polish concentration camp.” Annab3, I'm glad that you've complained about it as we all should. The appropriate choice of words here is: "A Nazi Concentration Camp". Not German, definitely not Polish, but Nazi.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Dec 6, 07, 13:16 / #
nazis were german, predominantly.

AristoboulosThreads: 1 Posts: 27 Joined: Dec 3, 07	Dec 6, 07, 13:34 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw Some would argue that they were the invention of the British........... in South Africa. The greatest genocide in world's history that we know of was performed by rulers of Soviet Union during most of it's history, especially when Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin was in charge. If we compare Nazi Holocauston done in Lagers to Soviet genocide done in Łagiers according to the number of victims we can get little troubled I think. But Soviet Union lasted some decades more than Third Reich so people were often suggested to think about it as if it were a normal country. Western sympathies for Soviets can not be commented by gentle words. So we end here. Quoting: cezarek Either 'German concentration camps' and 'German castle', or 'Polish castle' and 'Polish concentration camps'. German Stettin and German West Pomerania and German Malbork etc. However, in 1500ties and 1600ties nationality was not good reason to make war. Germans born in Danzig was serving Polish kings as a diplomats as well as Poles were loyal to the Hapsburg court. E u r o p e a n Commonwealth was over-state community begging from Lisbon in Portugal and ending in Polotsk in Republic of Both Nations. Yes, there were some incidents caused by nationalism. But never Holocausta.

annab3Threads: 1 Posts: 24 Joined: Nov 6, 05	Edited by: annab3 Dec 6, 07, 13:51 / #
Quoting: Dice Nazi Concentration Camp Call it whatever you like, as long as it's not called Polish. You can say "in Poland" but use the correct adjective to describe its characteristics. So the most accurate description would be “concentration camp of Nazi Germany in Poland.” The fact that it was constructed by Nazi Germans on Polish soil does not make it Polish. This is where the copyright rights come into play. If a German citizen invents something while residing abroad, does it make it a German or the host company invention? Or is it just that person’s invention? You can split hair into four if you like, but the basic truth is black and white I believe. People like to make everything circumstantial and relative just because then there is no one to blame or take responsibility. So another question is: What nationality were the Jews who lived in Poland or live in Poland? Are they Polish or Jewish? Or can they be possible both? Quoting: joepilsudski 'latitude of the English language' Maybe, but when you hear "British military base" you see Brits building and running it, don't you?

AristoboulosThreads: 1 Posts: 27 Joined: Dec 3, 07	Dec 6, 07, 14:00 / #
Actually Malbork was built in Teutonic Land and Camps were built in General Government which was treated by Nazi as a colony and place for further German colonization. Yes, today all of it is in Poland. Some places in opportunity with their tradition, population and history (Stettin and Kustrin to count a few).

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: Dice Dec 6, 07, 14:45 / #
<div class="quoting">Quoting: annab3 I don't mean to sound harsh on you, Dice, but I think people should call things their real name. Using euphemisms and indirect names distort the truth. </div> Annab3, it's not my idea to call it this or other name. This IS the PC fraise they use now a days for this dark period of Human history. Here is the appropriate page on Wikipedia titled:"Nazi concentration camps". The important thing though is that if you feel offended by the fraise "Polish concentration camp" you need to write a complaint to NPR. [b]You can send email from this page: http://www.npr.org/contact/ Mailing Address: 635 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington, D.C. 20001 Title of the show: “Boston symphony performs works by French composer” Date: Dec. 3, 2007 theworld.org/wma.php?id=1203075 PS. I may be wrong here, but I believe that the NPR did apologize once before for very same thing. Not 100% sure though.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Edited by: isthatu Dec 6, 07, 15:26 / #
Quoting: plk123 Quoting: witek I think you meant to say that Germans were Nazis. nope.. i wrote it the way i ment it. there were serb nazis as well as italian and spanish etc.. nope, Nazis.or members of NASDAP were German or Folk Germans (including austrians etc) the Nazi Party was the national sociolist GERMAN workers party. There were Faschisti in italy,Rex'ists in Belgium Ustashe in Croatia Chetniks in Sebia, NSZ in Poland,Arrow cross in .....Faschist,not Nazi, semantics yes,but important semantics nonethe less.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Dec 6, 07, 15:47 / #
no,not at all, the italian faschists historicaly had no official anti semitic policy for example. The rexists were a right wing anti communist league they are not the same by any means and trying to simplify matters doesnt do you justice.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: jonni Dec 6, 07, 13:53 / #
Quoting: Dice The appropriate choice of words here is: "A Nazi Concentration Camp". Not German, definitely not Polish, but Nazi. Quite. 'A concentration camp in Poland' might be a tactful alternative given the feelings about this, but I wouldn't hold out much hope that things will change soon. And, inwrocław, I think that you can make a valid comparison between the Auschwitz Memorial and Malbork Castle. Both are internationally known sites, both built by Germans, both in Poland and both attracting thousands of visitors annually.

annab3Threads: 1 Posts: 24 Joined: Nov 6, 05	Dec 6, 07, 14:01 / #
Quoting: Dice A Nazi Concentration Camp". Not German, definitely not Polish, but Nazi. Quoting: annab3 Call it whatever you like I don't mean to sound harsh on you, Dice, but I think people should call things their real name. Using euphemisms and indirect names distort the truth. As they say “perfect is an enemy of good.” So are “nice” names for horrible acts. I see that the young generation of Germans does not like the burden of German history, but hopefully they can learn from it and do something good for the world for a change. I am pretty sure if you look hard enough, you can find something shameful in every nation's past.

annab3Threads: 1 Posts: 24 Joined: Nov 6, 05	Dec 6, 07, 14:50 / #
Yes, I will do that. It's not a matter of being offended, rather it's a matter of the truth and fairness.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Dec 6, 07, 14:51 / #
Quoting: witek I think you meant to say that Germans were Nazis. nope.. i wrote it the way i ment it. there were serb nazis as well as italian and spanish etc..

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: Dice Dec 6, 07, 15:02 / #
Quoting: annab3 Yes, I will do that. It's not a matter of being offended, rather it's a matter of the truth and fairness. So will I. Annab3, was it the program "Fresh Air Whith Terry Gross"?

annab3Threads: 1 Posts: 24 Joined: Nov 6, 05	Dec 6, 07, 15:04 / #
It was: 7:00pm The World News, features, interviews and music from around the globe.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Dec 6, 07, 15:40 / #
dude, those are all the same, just different linguistic names. sheesh.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Dec 6, 07, 16:11 / #
dude, you're splitting hairs.. they were all after some kind of cleansing and mastery of the races.. that's really all that matters.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Dec 6, 07, 16:15 / #
Quoting: plk123 they were all after some kind of cleansing and mastery of the races.. that's really all that matters. no arguement there buddy.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Dec 7, 07, 12:13 / #
URL The head of Chicago Public Radio is one Jim Nayder...Try as I could, I could find no biographical information on him...but here is an article about him: npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4195490 Ms.Cheryl Halpern is the head of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting...some info on her: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Cheryl_Halpern

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Dec 8, 07, 12:17 / #
Quoting: Dice if you feel offended by the fraise Maybe send them a strawberry...

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 8, 07, 14:35 / #
Quoting: annab3 There have never been any "Polish" concentration camps anywhere in the world. What about the ones which were set up in 1945? They were set up by and run by the Polish government. Or did your history books not cover that bit of history?

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Dec 8, 07, 15:14 / #
Quoting: Harry What about the ones which were set up in 1945? They were set up by and run by the Polish government. Or did your history books not cover that bit of history What camps were these?...can you list them for my information?...In 1945, Poland was occupied by the Soviet Army...so these camps that you speak of would have to have been built under Soviet orders...the Nazis were driven out, and the Polish people never built camps on their own...or, maybe, Polish security services had some part in these camps of which you speak...the Polish security services were staffed by mainly 'foreign' elements...was the 'Pole' Berman in power yet?

omniba	Dec 8, 07, 18:23 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw Some would argue that they were the invention of the British And alas their argument would be good - British Concentration Camps existed during the Boer War. Quoting: annab3 the young generation of Germans does not like the burden of German history Well, if they "don't like the burden", perhaps they should take the issue up with their parents and grandparents and ask them where (and why) all this delicacy of sentiment disappeared not so long ago. As for "Polish Concentration Camps" mentioned in the media: this has been going on for a long time now, furthering some peoples' private agenda, no doubt. It would be useful were the Polish Government informed each time this happens so that they can lodge a formal complaint not only with the media company concerned but also with the Ambassador of the nation where the company operates. Perhaps a special permanent thread could be started here where these events are reported so that we can all do a bit of e-mail complaint bombarding.

cezarekThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Nov 26, 07	Edited by: cezarek Dec 10, 07, 07:51 / #
Quoting: joepilsudski What camps were these?...can you list them for my information?...In 1945, Poland was occupied by the Soviet Army However the first concentration camp in Europe, Bereza-Kartuszka was set up in (then) Poland by the Poles in the 1930s, before the war, and definitely not 'under Soviet orders' or 'a British invention'. URL