English vs. Polish hostility

Quoting: Janek, Post #1

Can someone explain why all the hostility that the English seem to have about the Polish people? I've read some nasty comments written here on the site that for someone living in North America seems rather odd. I'm sure that the visible minorities that have long been harassed take joy in the attention being focused on another group. But seriously, why so much hatred?

Janek	Mar 30, 06, 21:15 / #
Can someone explain why all the hostility that the English seem to have about the Polish people? I've read some nasty comments written here on the site that for someone living in North America seems rather odd. I'm sure that the visible minorities that have long been harassed take joy in the attention being focused on another group. But seriously, why so much hatred?

Guest	Mar 30, 06, 21:33 / #
Unemployed English people claim the Poles take (menial) jobs from them...

Janek	Mar 30, 06, 22:43 / #
Why aren't they (english) not taking those jobs? Seems to me, menial jobs arent exactly ones that an employers is going to be too picky on who he hires in the first place. Perhaps there is more to the story than jobs being taken away, "menial" or otherwise

Guest	Mar 30, 06, 22:53 / #
Quoting: Janek Why aren't they (english) not taking those jobs? It's quite simple - because: 1. It's a menial job (cleaning, working on the roofs, working with animals, etc). 2. It does not pay well (or could pay well, but the employers want to save some money). It's like in the US - Mexicans do landscaping/contractors jobs, Polish do contractors/cleaning/care-giving jobs, people from India work in stores or gas stations, etc. Have you ever seen an American working as a care-giver (taking care of a 90-year old man who stays in bed 24/7?) 24-7 for $80 a day?

Janek	Edited by: Janek Mar 31, 06, 01:06 / #
I can appreciate your views totally. However, arent wages (outside of a union environment of course) driven by market values as they should be in a free world? If you owned a small company wouldnt you also be looking for the best worker at the lowest cost as well? I couldnt imagine washing pots and pans in some restaurant but really, how much can a person who does that job expect to be paid. Minimum wage standards are set by labor laws of the state and of course business has that right to pay the minimum if they choose. Maybe the anger should be directed at governments who seem to disregard the working poor as low priorities. Human beings shouldnt have to visit the food banks like desperate animals to feed their families each month. A single mom trying to find a decent job and go off welfare, what does she do? Will the government help pay for expensive daycare in order to help someone who truly wants a better life?

Janek	Edited by: Janek Mar 31, 06, 01:26 / #
Its easy to displace our anger and frustrations onto someone else. Somehow it relieves our pain and guilt I suppose. Having said that, it just doesnt seem right to blame a person, or nationality who are just trying to live in a world that has become so freaked up! Consider this; perhaps that man that you see working in that lousy job nobody wants, maybe that poor guy has 2 of those jobs nobody wants so he can put food on the table and dream of someday being able to send his only son to university? Maybe the poor old sole dreads working 12 or 14 hours a day but he is simply doing what he has to do. Im not trying to take any ones side here, but it seems to me, that anyone who works so hard for so little in return, is being beat up enough in life as it is. We might want to think twice about hurting him further. I think life is doing a good job at that already

Janek	Edited by: Janek Mar 31, 06, 13:16 / #
Estimates are, there are 10-12 million illegals in the US today. Canada has a very small fraction of that number, perhaps less than 100,000. However; in the US, a vast portion of the folks that shouldnt be there are Mexican and Cuban nationals. Is that a bad thing? Perhaps not! The US has known about those people for many years and did nothing to stop it, until recently. Does anyone think that Bush can round up and process deportation orders for 12 million people now? That I would love to see.ha-ha! As French is the second official language of Canada, Spanish is the second official language of the USA. I have a friend in Los Angeles and he tells me many, many Mexicans work their butts off 10-12 hours a day, sometimes they dont get more than a quick pee break. They are lucky to get minimum wages, if they do. Not sure thats a great life, but obviously one that is better than they had back home.

Guest	Apr 2, 06, 12:35 / #
Look, coming from someone who lives in a very poor ethcially divided area, its not so much the Poles coming and taking the jobs- its the number of Poles coming and using the benefits system. The most agro is around council housing (to Janek in England this is where the government basically gives you a house, mostly rent free) and because the Poles can usually declare themselves officially homeless when they come to the UK they get put to the top of the housing register- above British people who wait for years. Personally i have no problem with this because i feel the person who needs it most deserves it, regardless of nationality, but many disagree.....

Janek	Apr 3, 06, 12:12 / #
Do I understand your words correctly? Are you saying that Polish immigrants are basically given free housing when they come to the UK? Thats ridiculous! Why would the government allow immigrants entry to the UK if they cant sustain themselves? Thats a government screw-up big-time! Taxpayers shouldnt have the burden of housing newly arrived immigrants from any country (not just from Poland). Unless a family is deemed a refugee that has been proven, they shouldnt be entitled to a free ride. You know what to do, make these issues known in the next elections. People have a voice and can make changes, but only when they voice their concerns. Why would anyone vote for a party who spends your hard earned money on someone elses problems? Shouldnt charity begin at home first?

Wojt	Apr 4, 06, 23:15 / #
I agree the government will not give an immigrant a house... Maybe political immigrants, but not regular ones....

Guest	May 15, 06, 14:01 / #
I believe most of the hostility comes from British men and I think it's pathetic (as a british woman) English men can't be bothered to do menial jobs or anything that doesn't pay them what they WANT to be paid ( they can get more on benefits!) yet they moan about others tking their jobs (and their women). Just ignore it, English men need to get a reality check and see that it is them that's the problem, not others.

Guest	May 22, 06, 08:39 / #
Oh here we go truebrit the traitor talking his trash. Yeah keep making money hand over fist while giving everyone the shaft.

truebritThreads: 3 Posts: 230 Joined: May 19, 06	May 22, 06, 10:09 / #
Quoting: Guest Oh here we go truebrit the traitor talking his trash. Yeah keep making money hand over fist while giving everyone the shaft. Looks like I touched a raw nerve! Yes,I shall keep working hard and making money and paying taxes like the other hard working British,Polish and others.Meanwhile you can continue being a miserable moaner.

Guest	May 22, 06, 21:21 / #
Hire only citizens

Guest	May 16, 06, 10:01 / #
Polish people are not, repeat not, given free houses when they come to Britain. As EU citizens, they are entitled to welfare in the UK, just as British people are entitled to welfare in Poland, but recent government figures show that Poles havent been claiming welfare in the UK. Out of several hundred thousand who went to the UK after EU accession, less than a hundred have claimed welfare. People go there to work. And in any case, the UK welfare system rarely gives people free houses. It will help with people's rent if that is necessary, but the money doesn't always cover the whole cost.

truebritThreads: 3 Posts: 230 Joined: May 19, 06	May 21, 06, 11:27 / #
Quoting: Janek Can someone explain why all the hostility that the English seem to have about the Polish people? I work with many Polish people here in the UK.I have heard very few negative comments from the English people against the Poles.Certainly the British residents of Luton and Hatfield are making lots of money renting their houses out to Polish workers. I have often found that negative people are cowards.They will not complain in public or say what they think to people's face - instead they use the internet to make their spiteful comments. Please be aware that these losers are a tiny minority of English people!(maybe 1%)

Guest	May 22, 06, 15:22 / #
Jamek there is NO hostility between English and Polish. I should know my town in England has loads of Polish people and I have a lot of Polish friends. The people posting theese stuipid messages are just trying to create controversy.

bossieThreads: 1 Posts: 148 Joined: Jun 11, 06	Jun 23, 06, 14:37 / #
According to the law, you can only claim benefit of any kind having worked in the UK continuously for 12 months. This means that anyone going there and claiming anything straight away is just impossible, regardless of nationality. To be precise: comparing Poles to Mexicans has little reason as all Poles are perfectly legal in the UK, not only staying, but also working - and this being a decision of the government chosen by the British public. About some moaners: there will always be someone unhappy about changes, claiming same old stuff about job taking and social system abuse. Obviously not everyone going to UK is well behaved and highly educated, but neither are the ones complaining. It is worth noting that actually the inflow of labour force has helped boost British economy. Saying that English language is threatened by Polish is ridiculous, given its difficulty and the proportions of immigrants against English-speaking inhabitants. I guess the British lady (#14) is quite right - I haven't ever heard women complain. Moreover, I know of many friendships between Poles and locals. Perhaps it hurts some single men to see happy Polish-English couples? Internet gives opportunity for some cowards to waffle around, don't let them fool you - the reality is better than it may seem judging by some of these angry posts.

casper	Nov 23, 06, 07:04 / #
I disagree there is hostility towards Polish, Somali, pakistani, muslims in general, but not Polish.

miranda	Nov 23, 06, 08:26 / #
Quoting: casper, Post #22 I disagree there is hostility towards Polish, Somali, pakistani, muslims in general, but not Polish which one is it?

DecoratorThreads: 5 Posts: 412 Joined: Aug 26, 06	Nov 23, 06, 10:15 / #
Quoting: Guest, Post #19 Jamek there is NO hostility between English and Polish. I should know my town in England has loads of Polish people and I have a lot of Polish friends. The people posting theese stuipid messages are just trying to create controversy. Working in Construction i'm afraid to say there is a lot of hostility and bad feeling towards East European workers. And i have experienced this first hand. It'a a pity but true..

casper	Nov 23, 06, 11:05 / #
Is that because Poles work hard and English lads enjoy their T too much. Just a friendly question.

fred	Nov 23, 06, 11:38 / #
all Poles are strictly legal in the UK to live and work. Well.. not exactly they still need to have a work permit and any employer taking on non permit workers can be heavily penalised. True like ALL EU citizens they can go to the UK or any other EU country to visit but..not to work! As for 'benefits' of course Poles are entitled to benefits, child allowances but they must show that they pay into the National Insurance ie. have a proper job etc. Just try and get a work permit in Poland as a foriegner. I had my own biz in Poland and had a visa to stay but... I couldn't draw a penny in salary and couldn't even claim ANY expenses. Yet there I was employing plenty of locals. So it's horses for courses as they say!

truebritThreads: 3 Posts: 230 Joined: May 19, 06	Nov 25, 06, 11:27 / #
Quoting: Janek, Post #1 Can someone explain why all the hostility that the English seem to have about the Polish people? I've read some nasty comments written here on the site that for someone living in North America seems rather odd. I'm sure that the visible minorities that have long been harassed take joy in the attention being focused on another group. But seriously, why so much hatred? I shall try and answer this question in detail but basically there is not a huge amount of hatred towards the Polish migrants in the UK. 1)The situation in the UK is completely different to the USA due to the size and history of the country. 2)It is estimated that since 2004 around 2 million Poles have entered the UK and although many have since returned(many are temporary workers) the permanent Polish migrant population is thought to be around 300,000-600,000.In response to this 6-8 people on this forum have expressed extreme views (out of 61 million people) so it is hardly a huge backlash of hatred. However,many UK citizens are concerned for the following reasons: 3)Unlike the USA the UK is a small densely populated country of 61 million people.If the USA had the same population density you would have more than 2 billion people (instead of 300 million as now). This means that when there is a large influx of people over a short period (as there has been with the Polish)then the effects are felt far more quickly than would be the case with a large empty country. 4)Professionals,students and educated Polish migrants are no problem.However,lower wage British people and many self employed plumbers,decorators,builders etc are concerned by the Poles who are doing the same work as themselves.If a Polish migrant comes to the UK for 2-3 years,works in a factory/warehouse,shares a room with 2 other migrants and saves every penny he can return to Poland and start a decent life.He gets higher British wages,tax credits etc but can use cheap Polish dentists,opticians etc on his visits home.British workers do not have this option-even if they lived like that for 3 years the money saved could not pay the deposit on a flat/house in most parts of the UK. 5)Unlike Mexicans etc in the USA,in the UK all Polish workers(after 12 months) are entitled to the same rights and access to benefits-housing subsidy,tax credits(income subsidy),subsidised higher education,free medical treatment as lifetime residents.This might be fair but it means some migrants are receiving far more than they are paying in taxes.It also causes resentment from some lower income UK residents-as it would anywhere. 6)Some Polish migrants are going in vast numbers to areas of the UK previously untouched by immigration.Much of the UK is multicultural but in these other areas some schools and other services have been unprepared for non-English speakers.If you have a town with few foreigners and then 3000-10000 all from one country(Poland) turn up then some friction is to be expected. 7)To be accurate there is very little dislike of Polish people in particular - some people just have legitimate concerns about the sheer number that have come in 2 years.Ignore the hatred on this forum because it represents less than 1% of the UK population.

Irritated	Nov 28, 06, 15:16 / #
Smacks of little England mentality. And while we worry about the polish plumber our multicultural plan is constantly undermined by Bush's war on Islomfacism and all the accompanying subtefuge, chaos and conspiracy that rolls with it. Perhaps Enoch's Rivers ofblood are no longer a nationalists nightmare but a potential national reality and people have the nerve to moan about Polish immigrants. Polish immigrants may indeed provide a catalyst through which to reasses multiculturalism and ethinic relativism. In that the are a largely non-secular, culturally traditional group who like the muslim community represent a vocal and visible minority within the UK. It is no longer just non-white ethnic minorities at the bottom of the economic ladder, we now have Plish and other Eastern European minorities joing this social strata. The "working class British white" has another group to compete with, except they can't. Why? Because just as they failed to compete with certain Asian groups (notably Hini or Sihk Indians), they will fail against Poish labour. Why? Because the Poles want to do and to go..somewhere. The British working class, (hich doesn't even truely exist, they are infact Untermensch,skill free, village idiots.) moan because they can't compete, which is true because they are inherently bloody lazy, on the dole I DESERVE attitude. So f u c k them. Good luck to the Polish in the UK, we are in a global market, go find your fortune and f u c k everyone else. Its your life, no one else's. And anyone who stands in your path destroy. VIVA THE JUNGLE MAY THE FITTEST SURVIVE, BECAUSE LIFE IS PAIN.

Stupidwelsh	Nov 28, 06, 16:15 / #
True Brit actually defined the root causes of conflict, and as he says such conflicts are in the minority, there’s no massive resentment between Poles and British nationals, just a lack of communication and understanding.

kobietaus	Dec 5, 06, 23:40 / #
I am a third generation American that is biologically 50%Mexican 50%Polish and I have had to listen to racist comments my whole life. People haven't always known what I was and Sometimes I don't admit because I know someone is racist. My biological Polish father and his family could never accept a Mexican into their family. Am I not a real pole because I am not pure?

Kasper	Dec 10, 06, 23:16 / #
Why don't you Poms get off your fat, lazy, ashes-losing arses and get a job. If a Polish person is willing to work hard, you must be willing to work harder. Or maybe you could move to australia, where you will be like the Pole who is stealing people's jobs. You clearly have no idea that the british do this in other countries too. Try getting a job in a restaurant or bar in Sydney if you're not english. It works both ways Poms. You too are seen as scum in some parts of the world......rightly so.

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06	Dec 11, 06, 00:38 / #
Quoting: kobietaus, Post #30 Am I not a real pole because I am not pure? If after all you went through with your family you still want to describe yourself as a Pole, than for me you are a one very strong, real Polish Lady/ Lad.

Brit Patriot	Dec 25, 06, 13:43 / #
600,000 Polish arrivals in the UK in 2 years. It's just too much to absorb. It may be just 1% of the total British population, but in real terms it seems much much more. Towns like Southampton have 20K Poles for only 200K previous population. Slough supposedly has 20K Poles for only 100K population. Now that's 10-20% of the population. Now when you take away young kids and old grannies, since they never go out on the streets you have towns which have almost ceased to be British. It's got nothing to do with rascism. Can't you get that into your thick bloody skulls? Why must you always reduce everything to character slurs! Are you all so ignorant? It's just that large parts of Britain are being overwhelmed by Poles. Everywhere you go in Britain, every bus you sit on, every train you take, you hear nothing but Polish being spoken. It's too many, too fast. The country simply cannot absorb it all. When it comes to race Brits are probably the most tolerant people in the world. But enough is enough. Will some of you Poles please go home!!!