Kwasniewski - Tusk Debate

Quoting: Grzegorz_

Do what ? Tusk said that he won't change Krus, PO voted for becikowe and similar things, in their TV ads he talks about higher wages for doctors, teachers and policemen. Economically we have the choice between the same crap under name of "solidarna Polska" or "liberalism".

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Oct 15, 07, 13:02 / #
Airing now...

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Oct 15, 07, 13:13 / #
any links to a website that may have it on live? this would be interesting to see.

Jane DoneThreads: - Posts: 25 Joined: Dec 9, 06	Oct 15, 07, 13:18 / #
onet.tv/30121,,,,,,9210,wideo.html

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Oct 15, 07, 13:21 / #
thanks jane.. doesn't work for me however. :(

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Oct 15, 07, 13:28 / #
polskieradio.com

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Oct 15, 07, 14:19 / #
Tusk won

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Oct 15, 07, 14:29 / #
In first part Kwasniewski was better because Tusk was avoiding to say that he is going to cut social benefits and give more money for rich ( but we know that Tusk is our boy and he is going to do it ;) ) Latter Tusk was much better

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 14:59 / #
Lukasz, liberalism is not about giving more many for rich! I'm afraid that you watch to many PiS conventions. It is about state leaving more money in pockets of all taxpayers. Some say that there is no liberal policy just liberal criticism of policy. Tusk hardly even managed to do the second having ideological socialists for opponents.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Oct 15, 07, 15:13 / #
boy, this sounds like an opposite view of what liberalism and conservatism means in the US. hmm..

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Oct 15, 07, 15:14 / #
Is Tusk for or against abortion?

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 15:32 / #
You cannot GIVE somebody his own money if you wont take it away first. Income tax should be abolished this is communist idea to punish somebody who work. Beside of that, if you install 50% flat tax then everybody would lose, with 10% flat tax everybody would save more money. For sure I know that all PO leading politicians are in mainstream politics since 1989. What they did for liberal economy?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Oct 15, 07, 15:38 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ That's because he won't do that. because everybody knows that only PO can do it, and he wanted to take some supporters form your social PiS which all the time is talking about social benefits, miners and farmers

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Oct 15, 07, 15:40 / #
Quoting: lesser For sure I know that all PO leading politicians are in mainstream politics since 1989. What they did for liberal economy? they woted for flat corporate tax (19%) even it was durring gov of SLD (now LiD) yes commies did it ;) that is why they are not so bad, PO is always for tax decrease

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 16:01 / #
We finally reach to the concussion, liberalism of PO fully exposed :) Why PO doesn't support 15% flat tax anymore? If they are for 19% this means that they want to decrease income tax just for small group of people. Why most of us should vote of them if they openly declare that they will continue to grab our money in the same way like commies and PiS? What about other taxes? Will they continue to collect ridiculous and unjustified tax from pensioners?

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,812 Joined: May 9, 07	Oct 15, 07, 15:15 / #
Quoting: hello Is Tusk for or against abortion? Good question, does someone know ?...

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Oct 15, 07, 15:17 / #
Quoting: lesser Lukasz, liberalism is not about giving more many for rich! I'm afraid that you watch to many PiS conventions. It is about state leaving more money in pockets of all taxpayers. yes I know that liberalism is different story, but for example flat income tax in first moment will give money for people who pay 40% tax, in long peroid of time whole economy will gain but first change will be for rich. PO is only one party who will decrease tax for sure, and I m going to vote on them.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Oct 15, 07, 15:22 / #
Quoting: plk123 boy, this sounds like an opposite view of what liberalism and conservatism means in the US. hmm.. in some way it is true. Quoting: hello Is Tusk for or against abortion? honestly all parties wants this status which we have. What means abortion is legal in cases like rape or when there is propability that being pregnant is dangerous for woman health and PiS is not going to change it and PO is not going to chaneg it and LiD will not try to do it It is resultat of 90' when abortion was ligal than not ligal than ligal ... and the result was that we were losting time, so membere of all sides decided to do this compromise and I m 100% sure that in this cadency nothing will change

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,208 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 15, 07, 15:35 / #
Quoting: Lukasz Tusk was avoiding to say that he is going to cut social benefits That's because he won't do that. Quoting: lesser It is about state leaving more money in pockets of all taxpayers. Exactly.

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 15:37 / #
Quoting: plk123 boy, this sounds like an opposite view of what liberalism and conservatism means in the US. hmm.. Yes, in Europe this is other way around. economic liberalism + social conservatism = classical rightist socialist economy + social liberalism = classical leftist

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,208 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 15, 07, 16:02 / #
Quoting: Lukasz because everybody knows that only PO can do it Do what ? Tusk said that he won't change Krus, PO voted for becikowe and similar things, in their TV ads he talks about higher wages for doctors, teachers and policemen. Economically we have the choice between the same crap under name of "solidarna Polska" or "liberalism".

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 16:10 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ Do what ? Tusk said that he won't change Krus, PO voted for becikowe and similar things, in their TV ads he talks about higher wages for doctors, teachers and policemen. Economically we have the choice between the same crap under name of "solidarna Polska" or "liberalism". Add Central Anti-Corruption Bureau , what a joke. PO also came out with proposal of "senioralne" (one time extra money for pensioners).

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,208 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 15, 07, 16:15 / #
But I vote for PiS :)

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 16:23 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ But I vote for PiS :) How would you logically explain it to us? :)

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Oct 15, 07, 16:24 / #
ohh I see lesser supporting LPR-UPR extrem right coalition. You know Korwin Mikke and his proposals LOL he is inteligent - clown (Giertyh no comment) he can try to convict every silly idea in inteligent way. and Grzegorz whos leader is asking about everything leader of Radio Maryja, and who supports bureacrats, centralists, socialists. PiS who pray for rain (yes there was this kind of situation)

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,208 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 15, 07, 16:34 / #
Quoting: lesser How would you logically explain it to us? :) I like Jaro and I think that there's no sense to vote for small parties, so there are 2 big (PO and PiS) and one medium (LID). LID sucks and I don't like people running PO. Economically I know that PiS is very imperfect but PO isn't really better. Besides the problem in Poland is that most people don't like real capitalism because for many years politicians had been "selling" socialism (with all its mistakes) under the name of capitalism, so now many people think that capitalism = high unemployment rate, low wages etc. But PiS for the first time is calling socialism what It is (well maybe not exactly but similar - "solidarity") so there's a chance that after a few more years of "solidarna Polska" people will start changing their minds about economical policy. PO will only disattract more people from the idea of economcal liberalism.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,208 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 15, 07, 16:35 / #
Quoting: Lukasz and Grzegorz whos leader is asking about everything leader of Radio Maryja Yours ask Adam Michnik-Szechter.

lesser	Oct 15, 07, 16:36 / #
This is you answer for my questions? You just realize that this is impossible to defend PO being liberal party. Tusk wont liberalize economy because average PO voter has no clue about this issue. So there is no need...

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Oct 15, 07, 16:38 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ capitalism = high unemployment rate, low wages etc. that is what PiS supporters think Quoting: Grzegorz_ PO will only disattract more people from the idea of economcal liberalism. And I think that you explain yourself, why you are going to vote on PiS even they are socialists and you know it is silly. So the best way is to say that PO is socialistic too, what doesnt have any sense.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Oct 15, 07, 16:39 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ Yours ask Adam Michnik-Szechter. You are anty-semit ... and everything is clear. But you should vote together with lesser ... some memebers of PiS are jews to so ... it isnt good choice for you.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,208 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Oct 15, 07, 16:42 / #
Quoting: Lukasz that is what PiS supporters think This is what unfortunately most of Poles think. Quoting: Lukasz why you are going to vote on PiS even they are socialists I have already explained that in another topic - If the choice is between "patriotic" socialists (PiS) and internationalistic/"European" socialists (PO) then I choose the first one. Quoting: Lukasz You are anty-semit ... and everything is clear. LOL