Polish F-16s

Quoting: Oldy, Post #18

And although final assembly is in Texas, some parts are assembled in Poland:
"Rzeszów, in south east Poland, began assembling engines for F-16 fighter jets in December 2005 as a result from the offset negotiations during the acquisition process of the aircraft.

Similarly, a plant in Krosno manufactures landing gear for every Polish F-16 made. These factories provide jobs to the local population, generate taxes for the government, and offer an immediate, in-country supply of parts for Poland's new fleet of F-16s."

Oldy	Aug 27, 06, 07:40 / #
Anybody here like airplanes? "When delivered, Polish F-16s will be the most advanced in NATO."

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Aug 27, 06, 08:51 / #
My brother owned a twin-engine Tomahawk. He was a pilot and an instructor. He taught me a thing or two about flying. Ever threw toilet paper out the window?

rafikThreads: 21 Posts: 740 Joined: Jun 22, 06	Aug 27, 06, 09:16 / #
Quoting: krysia, Post #2 Ever threw toilet paper out the window? you are hilarious honey

guess	Aug 27, 06, 12:13 / #
Quoting: Oldy, Post #1 Polish F-16s Since when Poland manufactures F-16? They are junky planes imported from the US - the premier got a good deal of money for doing that. And the Polish society will have to pay for this junk. If they bought F-18 that would be another story.

Oldy	Aug 27, 06, 12:58 / #
I suppose your an expert on this topic guess?

simon_porter00	Aug 27, 06, 12:59 / #
I believe the F-16 were bought second hand from one of its neighbouring countries who are upgrading to the eurofighter. From what I understand they got a good deal. Ok the F-16 isn't the best in the world, but it is a multi purpose craft and incredibly good at what it does. For a country like Poland it actually makes their airforce a lot more credible as a member state of NATO. The purchase of the F-16's could also been seen as a bit of a snub to Russia who supplied Poland with tatty planes during cmmunism. Mind you, I can't see the ruskies letting Poland get their hands on their latest MiG.

Markus	Aug 27, 06, 16:51 / #
It's a little surprising to me though - Poland has recently become EU member and instead of working as a team and ordering from European companies, they chose the US.

rafikThreads: 21 Posts: 740 Joined: Jun 22, 06	Edited by: rafik Aug 27, 06, 18:22 / #
Quoting: Markus, Post #7 It's a little surprising to me though - Poland has recently become EU member and instead of working as a team and ordering from European companies, they chose the US. if you know something about aeroplanes can you tell me which one is better:f-16,mig,or the swedish aeroplane which we were supposed to buy but fnaly rejected(i can't remember the name of it).what's the best fighting aircraft now?

Markus	Aug 27, 06, 20:20 / #
Quoting: rafik, Post #8 if you know something about aeroplanes can you tell me which one is better:f-16,mig,or the swedish aeroplane which we were supposed to buy but fnaly rejected(i can't remember the name of it).what's the best fighting aircraft now? Sometimes if you are in an union or marriage, you must sacrifice. The point is - Poland has just married the EU so Poland should be more loyal. If you get married and one day notice your wife is not as pretty as a girl in a pub, will you dump her and go with the pub-girl for one-night stand?

Oldy	Aug 27, 06, 21:54 / #
Quoting: rafik, Post #8 if you know something about aeroplanes can you tell me which one is better:f-16,mig,or the swedish aeroplane which we were supposed to buy but fnaly rejected(i can't remember the name of it).what's the best fighting aircraft now? Which fighter is better is a difficult question, better in a dog fight, better radar, better range, better for the money, better top speed, etc? The Saab Gripen is the swedish fighter.

simon_porter00	Aug 28, 06, 03:28 / #
Furthermore, you can hardly call the F16 outdated. It has shown in the years its bben operating the frame of the craft can be subjected to modfication successfully and components within updated to carry the latest suite of electronics, counter electronics, radar suites, and most importantly missiles. Lets not forget the airframe for the eurofighter is over 15years old in terms of design, but more importantly its what is contained within the aircraft is going to set it apart. Dogfighting is largely a thing of the past, most air to air incidents nowadays are settled at long range at the hands of a sidewinder, AMRAAM or ASRAAM. The eurofighter, inorder to cut costs, wasn't going to be fitted with a cannon! (Of course common sense now prevails and its got a gun now). Poland are far from suckers, Lef, they've gt themselves a good deal, and at this present moment in time have some of the best craft in NATO.

Pilot Pirx	Aug 28, 06, 11:52 / #
This is a really old news. The F-16s Poland bought are the newest model of F-16 called Block 52+ Those planes are have better avionics, elictronic systems (the computer system in those planes are identical to those in F-22), as well a an extended range of operations. Even the US has only a relative small amount of those planes (compared to the whole number of fighter planes) and beside Poland only Israel and Greece uses them. When it comes to selecting this plane in the first place then it won the the competition against Jas 39 Grippen and Mirage 2000 the Mirage is a realy crappy plane compared to those, so the competition had been realy played out between Grippen and F-16. Grippen is a newer construction than F-16 and is far cheaper in upkeep (for example it reqires a far smaller ground crew than the F-16) but it lost becaouse Locheed Martin as part of the deal had promised to invest 4 billion dollars (the amount of money the Polish government purchased the planes - at that time it was also the largest single arms contract ever made in Europe) in Poland. The Swedes weren`t able to do the same. But that was a couple of years ago. Today Locheed Martin is producing jet engines as well as other products (in the future probably whole fighters) for American fighters in Poland. Today there are talks about making a similar deal with Sikorsky. As of Today the Polish Airforce is also equiped with Mig-29s they are as good as the F-16 and Su-22s - which is a figher/bomber Untill 1999 Poland had also its own fighter/bomber program. The PZL-230 Skorpion But it was canceled becaouse of lack of funds. The newest construction of the Polish Areospace industry is the PZL W4 chopper that enters service in the Polish Army and Airforce this year.

Wujek_Dobra_Rada	Aug 28, 06, 15:40 / #
In my opinion buying the F-16 as a whole package - together with the investments is a good deal - but the Grippen is a better plane than the newest version of the F-16.

Wujek_Dobra_Rada	Edited by: Wujek_Dobra_Rada Aug 28, 06, 15:43 / #
Buying a plane from our Russian friends, becaouse of the political situation, would be highly unwise (to say the least )

Markus	Aug 27, 06, 23:42 / #
Quoting: Oldy, Post #10 Which fighter is better is a difficult question, better in a dog fight, better radar, better range, better for the money, better top speed, etc? How about --> best for the coordination and strategic operations of the united army of European countries?

lefThreads: 13 Posts: 564 Joined: Jun 27, 06	Aug 28, 06, 01:55 / #
Quoting: Oldy, Post #1 When delivered, Polish F-16s will be the most advanced in NATO." I think you may find that they are outdated, thats why it was offered to Poland (suckers) at a discount price on conditon that they send troops to Iraq...corrrect?

simon_porter00	Aug 28, 06, 03:22 / #
"It's a little surprising to me though - Poland has recently become EU member and instead of working as a team and ordering from European companies, they chose the US. " its not really about buying from your new mates though, is it? Poland -they've got little money and so can't afford anything new (rules out the latest MiG, F-18, eurofighter, saab and french whatiscalled) so rather intelligently they get in contact with a country who are upgrading to a eurofighter and get a good deal for a combat worthy, multiple use platform. The question is, whats the best deal you can get rather then who shall we support by getting their stuff. Please realise, the states wouldn't have seen a penny of the money paid for the F-16's but needless to say would probably get income from maintenance and support contracts and missilies and so on. Whats the best fighter? In my honest opinion, from the airshow i was at the other month, nothing looked as good as the eurofighter. The new MiG did lots of nice little ticks and aerobatics but in showing performance the eurofighter looked in a class of its own. The saab looked alright and the french things were pretty naff to be honest.

Oldy	Edited by: Oldy Aug 28, 06, 16:17 / #
And although final assembly is in Texas, some parts are assembled in Poland: "Rzeszów, in south east Poland, began assembling engines for F-16 fighter jets in December 2005 as a result from the offset negotiations during the acquisition process of the aircraft. Similarly, a plant in Krosno manufactures landing gear for every Polish F-16 made. These factories provide jobs to the local population, generate taxes for the government, and offer an immediate, in-country supply of parts for Poland's new fleet of F-16s."

Wujek_Dobra_Rada	Aug 28, 06, 16:39 / #
Quoting: Oldy, Post #18 And although final assembly is in Texas, some parts are assembled in Poland: "Rzeszów, in south east Poland, began assembling engines for F-16 fighter jets in December 2005 as a result from the offset negotiations during the acquisition process of the aircraft. Similarly, a plant in Krosno manufactures landing gear for every Polish F-16 made. These factories provide jobs to the local population, generate taxes for the government, and offer an immediate, in-country supply of parts for Poland's new fleet of F-16s." Yep - but this is only a a very small part of the whole deal.

hello	Nov 9, 06, 11:03 / #
So does Poland enjoy the new F-16s? I've heard they have so big fuel tanks that they don't have to tank in the air at all.

Tlum	Nov 9, 06, 12:28 / #
Some say it was a big fiasco. But on the other hand - things happen and you cannot predict when a part breaks...

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 9, 06, 12:33 / #
I heard that Bydgoszcz just got a deal to make fighter planes... anyone know anything about this?

Tlum	Nov 9, 06, 12:38 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo, Post #22 I heard that Bydgoszcz just got a deal to make fighter planes... anyone know anything about this? Hmm - didn't hear about that. But it doesn't mean they won't take the F16s anymore, does it? :)

dziwna_gruszkaThreads: - Posts: 219 Joined: Sep 21, 06	Nov 9, 06, 12:38 / #
Are they fun to fly in because i've never been in one..!!!

hello	Nov 9, 06, 12:41 / #
Even if they got a deal - it's gonna take years before the first plane is manufactured. As for the American F-16, it was a mistake of the Polish government. Especially now that the Reps lost the elections.

dziwna_gruszkaThreads: - Posts: 219 Joined: Sep 21, 06	Nov 9, 06, 12:47 / #
well it was probably Kwasniewski's idea...!!!

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 9, 06, 12:52 / #
it's a good time of year to remember all the poles who flew in the RAF during WWII thank you and respect - you are not forgotten

BartolomeThreads: 2 Posts: 1,345 Joined: Sep 14, 06	Nov 10, 06, 07:55 / #
Quoting: Pilot Pirx, Post #15 Grippen is a newer construction than F-16 and is far cheaper in upkeep (for example it reqires a far smaller ground crew than the F-16) but it lost becaouse Locheed Martin as part of the deal had promised to invest 4 billion dollars (the amount of money the Polish government purchased the planes - at that time it was also the largest single arms contract ever made in Europe) in Poland. The Swedes weren`t able to do the same. Besides Gripens are not fully compatible with NATO standards. Despite being cheaper than F - 16s, it would cost additional funds to upgrade them to demanded standars. Just to remind you, Sweden is not a member of NATO.