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Capitalization of Cie, Ciebie, and others



acrimonThreads: 8
Posts: 9
Joined: May 10, 08 		  May 31, 08, 10:40 /  #
Hi again,

I noticed that words like Ciebie, Cie, Ty, etc are capitalized in certain contexts, such as part of a phrase that I sometimes see written as "dla Ciebie." Other times, those words are not capitalized, and I'm slightly confused as to when this should be done. If anyone would explain this, I'd be very appreciative. :)

Dziękuję! :D
tehbThreads: -
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 21, 08 		  May 31, 08, 11:20 /  #
They should always be written with a capital letter, poles just often don't care about this grammatic rule ;)
JovaThreads: -
Posts: 197
Joined: Mar 15, 08 		  May 31, 08, 11:27 /  #
tehb:
They should always be written with a capital letter, poles just often don't care about this grammatic rule ;)

Not at all.
You capitalise these words when you care about/like/respect the person you're writing to. Usually in personal letters.
tehbThreads: -
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 21, 08 		  May 31, 08, 13:37 /  #
@ Jova

Wrong. "Cie", "Ciebie" should be always written with a capital letter.
JovaThreads: -
Posts: 197
Joined: Mar 15, 08 		  May 31, 08, 13:40 /  #
tehb:
Wrong. "Cie", "Ciebie" should be always written with a capital letter.

Who told you this, young man? :)
Take a random book - are the pronouns capitalised? Naaaah.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  May 31, 08, 13:41 /  #
Jova is right. Man, I'm not Polish so I feel cheeky correcting u but u r wrong.

Kocham cie is absolutely fine. How can u not know such basic things?
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,869
Joined: Oct 14, 07  Gold Member MEMBER  Pictures: 2 		  May 31, 08, 14:13 /  #
you can see how some Poles try to use this rule in English, saying i love You, or how are You doing?. In Polish the capitalization of these words is reserved for personal letters and messages only, and also in some formal letters you write Państwo/Pan/Pani (as in Szanowni Państwo, Szanowny Panie, Szanowna Pani) using a capital letter at the beginning, to show respect and be polite. In books or magazines you will not see Cię, but cię and so on. what i have also noticed, some people write Ja (I) starting off with a capital letter, as if they were copying the English language (or showing just how much respect and love they have for themselves lol).
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07 		  May 31, 08, 16:42 /  #
Jova:
You capitalise these words when you care about/like/respect the person you're writing to. Usually in personal letters.

This is correct, although you will find capitalized pronouns in official publications where they address specific audience.

The rules have more to do with culture than grammar. Indeed, capitalized Ty, Wy etc. will express the respect we may feel towards someone, but sometimes it will also reflect on us.
tehbThreads: -
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 21, 08 		  May 31, 08, 17:02 /  #
eh whatever ;), my bad then.
SwiteziankaThreads: -
Posts: 525
Joined: Jun 17, 08 		Edited by: Switezianka   Jun 17, 08, 15:41 /  #
You capitalize Ty, Ciebi, Was etc. in:

-letters (including e-mails)
-on the Internet forums and chat. Many people don't but it is not too polite

In other words, when you address someone directly in writing.

In books (e.g. in dialogues), they are not capitalized, because the writer does not address anyone. In cases the author does address the reader directly in narration ("Now, dear children, I will tell you what the princess did..."), not to be confused with a 1st. pers. narrator addressing a fictional listener, second person pronouns are usually capitalized.
KrzysztofThreads: 2
Posts: 1,146
Joined: Jul 26, 07 		  Jun 17, 08, 16:58 /  #
I'm relatively polite (and old) and I never capitalize Cię/Ciebie/Tobie/Ty except in dedications (for example when giving someone a present with a hand written note). Guess I'm just rude :)
SwiteziankaThreads: -
Posts: 525
Joined: Jun 17, 08 		  Jun 22, 08, 09:24 /  #
I'm young and relatively impolite but I always do, and people with whom I communicate in writing (usually young) do as well. Maybe a generation gap or something?
VaFunkooloThreads: 7
Posts: 823
Joined: Mar 24, 08 		  Jun 22, 08, 09:38 /  #
Polish friends who write to me frequently capitalise 'You', even in the most informal contexts
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Jun 22, 08, 09:46 /  #
Are People Tending To Capitalise More Initial Letters These Days, less, or just the same?
GabThreads: -
Posts: 154
Joined: Apr 10, 08 		  Jun 22, 08, 19:54 /  #
Hi acrimon,

All these forms, i.e. Cie/Ciebie/Ty/Twoj/Twoja/Twoi/Twoje/Wasz/Wasze/Wasi should be capitalized according to a capitalization rule of Polish (see Polish grammar/punctuation/capitalization). It's actually considered a grammatical mistake if you don't.

We do not capitalize adjectives like polski/hiszpanski/amerykanski/niemiecki etc. which in are capitalized in English. That would be Polish/Spanish/American/German respectively.

Now, the language is evolving and certain linguistic rules/trends might be modified. Plus, formal vs. informal writing should be considered as well.

I even capitalize the words "Mamo" and "Tato" (mom and dad) in letters or on postcards as an expression of the utmost respect for my parents. But I also know some people who don't do that.

G.

:)
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07 		  Jun 22, 08, 23:50 /  #
Gab:
It's actually considered a grammatical mistake if you don't.

No, it's not. It is considered an orthographic error, and only under some circumstances. After all, an expression of respect, or lack of it, has little to do with grammar.
SwiteziankaThreads: -
Posts: 525
Joined: Jun 17, 08 		  Jun 23, 08, 08:37 /  #
One thing is certain: if you address someone as pan/pani in a formal letter, then pan/pani has to be capitalized.
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