LIVE FORUMS / ARCHIVES / 2008
PolishForums - ARCHIVE Witamy in PolishForums Archive :
Archives / 2008 / Grammar, Usage / posts: 13

Mixed genders in Accusative case?



ArcticPaulThreads: 49
Posts: 245
Joined: Apr 7, 08 		  May 14, 08, 11:37 /  #
Czytam ................ [ciekawa powie¶æ]

The adjective (ciekawa) is feminine, the noun (powie¶æ) is masc/inanimate (so would remain nominative).
Do I change the adjective and noun to their respective genders or does the noun dictate the gender of the full sentence?
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  May 14, 08, 12:19 /  #
powie¶æ is feminine.
But to answer your question anyway, any adjectives used have to agree with the noun.
KrzysztofThreads: 2
Posts: 1,146
Joined: Jul 26, 07 		  May 14, 08, 12:33 /  #
it's the verb that decides the case of a noun or adjective+noun group, czytam requires Accusative, so both will be in Acc. forms.
Czytam ciekaw± powie¶æ.
ArcticPaulThreads: 49
Posts: 245
Joined: Apr 7, 08 		  May 14, 08, 21:55 /  #
benszymanski:
powie¶æ is feminine.


Why is it feminine?

Krzysztof:
it's the verb that decides the case of a noun or adjective+noun group, czytam requires Accusative, so both will be in Acc. forms.
Czytam ciekaw± powie¶æ.


I am going to post a few examples of my exercise to clarify my task.

E1. Ogl±dam ................ [stara fotografia]
stara fotografia = feminine, so:
Ogl±dam star± fotografiê

E2. Czy masz ............. [mój klucz]
Mój klucz is masc/inanimate so remains nominative, so:
Czy masz mój klucz

E3. Czy masz .................[m³odszy brat]
m³odszy brat is masc/animate, so:
Czy masz m³odszego brata

I hope this will explain my task better.
I have not been instructed on using the verb to determine the case but to use the noun and adjective, as above.
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  May 15, 08, 01:16 /  #
Some words are masculine, some are neuter, some are feminine. You just have to learn the gender when you learn the new word. There is no real logic as to why a word is one gender or not. Having said that, most of the time you will get a feel for the gender of a word from its ending.

For example lots of words ending in a hard sound (e.g. materia³, saxofon) are masculine. Most words ending in -a are feminine (e.g. praca, kobieta). Lots of latin looking words like muzeum are neuter, as are ones with -ie (like ubranie or zdjêcie).

Yes Krzysztof's answer was much better than mine - the case is determined by the verb or the preposition used in the sentence.

You need to change the case of the noun and the adjective to fit the sentence, and that is determined by the verb in your exercise.

For example E1:
Verb is ogl±daæ which takes accusative. The object of this verb is your "stara fotografia", hence this object changes to accusative as you have done correctly.

E2: The verb is to have, mieæ. Like in English (I have my key) the object changes to accusative. Mój klucz does not remain in the nominative. So your object is masc/inaminate accusative (which looks like the nominative though):
Czy masz mój klucz?

E3: Same as E2, but this time you have masc/anim acc.
ArcticPaulThreads: 49
Posts: 245
Joined: Apr 7, 08 		Edited by: ArcticPaul   May 15, 08, 04:52 /  #
benszymanski:
powie¶æ is feminine.


I have only been learning for four weeks so I recognise the gender of nominative/singular words by the endings:

Masculine=consonant
Feminine= '-a' or occasionally '-i' (pani, gospodyni)
Neuter= '-o', '-e', '-iê', '-ê' and '-um'.

POWIE¦Æ ends in a consonant so I thought it would be masculine.
Does the accent make it feminine?
KrzysztofThreads: 2
Posts: 1,146
Joined: Jul 26, 07 		Edited by: Krzysztof   May 15, 08, 05:29 /  #
ArcticPaul:
I have not been instructed on using the verb to determine the case but to use the noun and adjective, as above.

I guess your teacher doesn't want to overwhelm you with too much theory as it can be discouraging, so for now you're OK doing exercises like this (when they say you what adjective/noun case to use), when you master all the 6 case endings (in singular and plural, for all the 3 genders), then the time will come for another level of exercises, where you'll have to decide by yourself what cases are required after a specific verb.


EDIT
ArcticPaul:
POWIE¦Æ ends in a consonant so I thought it would be masculine.

There's a large group of feminine nouns ending in a soft consonant (usually -¶æ, -d¼)

for example:
wiadomo¶æ (news)
znajomo¶æ (knowledge, acquaintance)
pod³o¶æ (vileness)
donios³o¶æ (importance)
those are usually created from an adjective (wiadomy, znajomy, pod³y, donios³y)

spowied¼ - confession (from the verb spowiadaæ)
go³oled¼
(but nied¼wied¼ - a bear - is masc.)
ArcticPaulThreads: 49
Posts: 245
Joined: Apr 7, 08 		Edited by: ArcticPaul   May 16, 08, 02:01 /  #
I think I found another Feminine word that ends in a consonant.
NOC.
My dictionary has a -f after it and also gives the masc (nocy) and the neuter (noce).

Krzysztof:
those are usually created from an adjective (wiadomy, znajomy, pod³y, donios³y)

Can you think of any English equivalents of nouns(?) made from adjectives?
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  May 16, 08, 04:09 /  #
ArcticPaul:
My dictionary has a -f after it and also gives the masc (nocy) and the neuter (noce).


Woah careful - you are getting confused. Noc is feminine as you say. Therefore it will never by used in a masculine or neuter form. Nocy is not the masc form and noce is not the neuter form - there are no such things as a masc/neuter form of a feminine word.

Your dictionary is probably showing you how to form the genitive and plural.
Each dictionary is different - mine just says "Noc - f, nocy (G. plur)" so I know that nocy is the genitive plural.

As mentioned, best to learn the gender with the word as there are a lot of irregularities.
KrzysztofThreads: 2
Posts: 1,146
Joined: Jul 26, 07 		  May 16, 08, 05:01 /  #
benszymanski:
there are no such things as a masc/neuter form of a feminine word.

I guess I know what you meant, but to be precise there's such thing for adjectives of course (they have all 3 gender forms, but the dictionary mentions the masculine only) and for nouns too (of course only for some nouns, basically those that refer to male/female people: lekarz-lekarka, uczeñ-uczennica etc. or animals: lew-lwica, osio³-o¶lica etc.)

ArcticPaul:
Can you think of any English equivalents of nouns(?) made from adjectives?

Plenty of them :)
There are several different endings (just like in Polish) to create a noun from and adjective, even in the examples I gave earlier 2 of the English words were created that way:
-ness
(adjective vile, noun vileness)
-ence/ance
(adj. important, noun importance)
-ism
(adj. imperial, noun imperialism)
But I don't see why you're asking me about English, I'm definitely not an expert :)
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  May 16, 08, 07:28 /  #
spot on Krzysztof!
ArcticPaulThreads: 49
Posts: 245
Joined: Apr 7, 08 		  May 16, 08, 10:16 /  #
benszymanski:
spot on Krzysztof!


Agreed. Perfect explanation (and examples).
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,726
Joined: Mar 10, 08 		  May 16, 08, 10:19 /  #
ArcticPaul:
Mixed genders in Accusative case?

I got accused of that once, I say only the boring stay straight
Go UPtop of page


Similar discussions:

Similar to: Mixed genders in Accusative case?
Polish Instrumentalis & Accusative Case
Cases, Genders, Nominative, Instrumental...WHY?
Mixed ethnicity with Germans and Russians *serious question
Mixed Race/Interracial couples in Warsaw
Accusative Plural
Polish Accusative's: Help required
Adjective/Noun agreement in the accusative?
ACCUSATIVE.Animate/Inanimate.Masc/Fem/Neut?
Which case for adjectives?
WHAT CASE DOES B£OGOS£AWIÆ TAKE?

How to use zakoñczono, znaleziono, etc in context  Polish Accusative's: Help required

Random: Bridal or Wedding Websites Based in Poland
Archives / 2008 / Grammar, Usage /posts: 13


This forum is archived (read-only).
Category:
© 2005-2010 PolishForums.com | PolishForums LIVE | Archives | Random | Statistics