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posts: 26

Trouble to understand how yo pronounce "ł"

Pawelek87Threads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Mar 28, 08	Mar 28, 08, 11:16 / #
I just can`t get when is ł supposed to be pronounced like W and when like L!! Help!

urszulaThreads: 2 Posts: 362 Joined: Aug 31, 07	Mar 28, 08, 11:18 / #
Ł is always pronounce as "W", unless it looks like L without the slash

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Mar 28, 08, 11:24 / #
yup..

portaThreads: 24 Posts: 354 Joined: Jul 16, 07	Mar 28, 08, 11:45 / #
Here you have some tips on how it sounds :)

Pawelek87Threads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Mar 28, 08	Mar 29, 08, 13:35 / #
I have seen the name "Pawel" written two ways: Pawel and Paweł, why`s that¿? I`m german with polish roots

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Mar 29, 08, 13:39 / #
It is "Paweł" but not everyone has the Polish letters to spell it properly.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Mar 29, 08, 14:30 / #
was gonna say the way I explained it to British mates was that Ł sounds just like a cockney L.....but,being german you may not get that,sorry:)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Mar 29, 08, 14:54 / #
Was ist das? LOL

Pawelek87Threads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Mar 28, 08	Mar 29, 08, 17:56 / #
Was ist was?? jejejeje

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Edited by: osiol Mar 29, 08, 18:07 / #
isthatu wrote: just like a cockney L Yes, but only a south-eastern English L when it's before a consonant or at the end of a burst of speech (whatever that's called by proper linguists). But, as you said, that's not particularly hełpfuł for Pawełek here. Unless he's learning Polish and Cockney/South-eastern English (please don't use that flipping Estuary word). I hope this post has assisted someone from my neck of the łoods instead.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Mar 29, 08, 18:11 / #
Just wisten to Jonathon Woss

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Mar 29, 08, 18:18 / #
Seanus wrote: Just wisten to Jonathon Woss He's not a Cockney, and he doesn't even pronounce R as a W. He does do the L thing we're discussing though. But the variety of R he uses is quite complicated to describe in detail, but I shall now attempt it. The top front teeth make contact with whatever that bit is called that is behind and below the bottom lip (like the position for the African/Caribbean 'kissing your teeth' thing) whilst the tongue rests in a neutral position. Go on - let me describe a Polish sound next time. Please!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Mar 29, 08, 18:21 / #
How about the sound from the rear end? That's a common sound at least

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07	Mar 30, 08, 08:52 / #
Pawelek87 wrote: n`t get when is ł supposed to be pronounced like W and when li This can ans should be always pronounced as a dark l sound. This new Polish trend of the Polish ł as an English w is strange to me.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Mar 30, 08, 09:19 / #
Michal wrote: This can ans should be always pronounced as a dark l sound. This new Polish trend of the Polish ł as an English w is strange to me. This only shows how ancient your idea of the Polish language is. Dark "L" is vanishing in the Polish language. Right now it is pretty much restricted to some dialects (mostly Eastern) and the older generation. Happy 90th birthday, Michal.

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Mar 30, 08, 10:18 / #
The dark "L". LOL. That's how they speak in Russia

Pawelek87Threads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Mar 28, 08	Mar 30, 08, 14:46 / #
I know.... it`s weird. I don`t know where I heard a pole say that ł was sometimes pronounced like a simple L. As I`m new with polish I`m confused about my name!. But if I`m german registred and born in Germany it would have been hard to get a "Ł" written down on my Birth Certificate since it`s not a letter contained in the german alphabet. :-S :-S Crap! Wiele Grüsse

telefonitika	Mar 30, 08, 14:54 / #
Pawelek87 wrote: when is ł supposed to be pronounced like W as in window sound .. thats how you pronounce it

Mafketis	Mar 31, 08, 07:45 / #
Pawelek, at one time, ł was like the 'dark' l in English ball (but in any position, not just at the end of syllables) I don't know when people began to pronounce it like English w, but the the tendency to turn the 'hard' l iinto something like [w] or [u] (or [o] or even [v]) has a long history in very many Slavic languages. Anyway, in Polish for a long time, there were two pronunciations. In everyday life people pronounced it like w, while in formal contexts (or in broadcasting or on the stage) people used the older 'dark' l sound. But in modern Polish (in Poland) the older pronunciation sounds wrong or too old fashioned and even in the most formal circumstances ł is always pronounced like English w in wait, window by everyone under 50 (and most people older than that). The old pronunciation lingers on to some extent among Polish speakers left in areas east of the current border, I've heard it from younger speakers from Lithuania, I don't know about in Ukraine or Belarus though.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Edited by: Marek Apr 4, 08, 14:10 / #
Urszula. I heard some people once from Zakopane and their 'Ł' sounded deceptively like a Russian 'dark l', f. ex. in 'golodniy' (Polish 'głodny'). Warsovians and Krakovians seem to pronounce it in more of the standard way we foreigners learn it!

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Apr 4, 08, 14:26 / #
Quite often, you will see some unfamiliar text where you know the distinction hasn't been made between L and Ł, or any of the other letters with things hanging off them or floating above them. What I tend to do is just guess. You have to be right some of the time, surely? The frequency of usage of the letters L and Ł are very close. It's not as if one occurs far more than the other or anything helpful like that. Just take a look at this. Someone might say something about softened sounds in Polish if they want to get really technical, but as far as I know, I don't think Ł can occur before I.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Apr 4, 08, 14:29 / #
osiol: I don't think Ł can occur before I. It can: Łi łyl rak ju.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Apr 4, 08, 15:11 / #
I don't mind being proven wrong - it keeps life interesting. * sigh *

RafalThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Feb 23, 07	Apr 5, 08, 19:58 / #
A friend of mine living in Germany has changed name to PAWEU...

jjjjjjj	Apr 19, 08, 13:50 / #
"Ł" has the sound of W in "water" unless it is between two consonants, as in jabłko. Łódź sounds like "wootch". Wisła sounds like "vees-waa". Ł is a hard consonant. L is a soft consonant. Ł does not appear before i, and L does not appear before y.

Kamil_pl	Apr 23, 08, 04:09 / #
Pawelek87: have seen the name "Pawel" written two ways: Pawel and Paweł, why`s that¿? I`m german with polish roots Often people use a instead of ą, e instead of ę, l instead of ł, z instead of ż, o instead of ó, when typing on keyboard. It is beacause they are too lazy to use alt button :)

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