Are Germans going to pay for WW2?

Poland, Germany end World War II reparations dispute

Polish and German leaders announced Thursday the dispute over World War II compensation claims between the two countries has been over.

Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said their position was supported by a legal analysis drafted by both Polish and German experts for their regularly scheduled annual meeting in Krakow.

According to the draft, which will be published soon, neither the property claims by Germans expelled from Poland after World War Two nor the Polish demands for reparations from Germany had legal basis.

Earlier this year a group of Germans who lost property from former German territories ceded to Poland after World War Two demanded the Polish government return their expropriated property.They had filed compensation claims to the courts in Germany and the European Court.

In retaliation, the Polish parliament passed a resolution in September calling on its government to submit reparation claims to Germany for losses suffered during the war.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 06:52 / #
http://www.rp.pl/artykul/144528.html It is article in Polish but it seems that Germans have paid 60 mln euro for families of 218 Greeks killed durring WWII. Greeks won in Italian court. It has happend 60 years after the war. When we look on fact that Germans killed in Poland 5-6 mln Polish citizens. and haven't paid money for that ... we should go to courts. Polish lawers are checking all possible ways of taking this money. Euro dontaions are nothing in compariosn to this money. The fact is that German robbed our country and stolen everything what was worth something. Now they should pay. Of course Polish life isn't less woth than Greek. So lets caluculate: 60 mln euro / 218 (Greeks) * 5 mln (Polish citizens killed) 1 376 146 788 990 Euro

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 07:52 / #
Ok I have something in english (it is form 2007) now we know that Greeks won German propery have been confiscated and given for Greeks. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/03/secondworldwar.germany what is interesting Germans had nothing to say, Greeks simple confiscated their properites in Italy in result of Italian decision. It seems we need to look for country where Germans have a lot of valueabale properties and try there.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Jun 6, 08, 08:07 / #
Lukasz: of 218 Greeks killed durring WWII. Greeks won in Italian court. The Greeks killed by Germans in WW2 were dozens of thousands.However only the relatives of Greeks slaughtered in 3 villages which were completely destroyed by german forces had the right to claim compensations and they had 1 year to do so,who were not informed lost the right to claim. You have to find out the number of polish citizens directly executed by Germans during occupation while they were not part of partizan army.You have to present documents like films,german orders which led to massacre and mass graves to get compensations. Also the legal status is different in the case of Poland because the Germans will claim that the polish demands are equal to the german demands for loss of properties in Silesia,Pommern so they have to be equalized and both deleted. There is also the eastern european factor,you do not know what agreement the commie government made with Eastern Germany regarding war compensations.Maybe some mashines and industrial facilities have been exchanged for that order. The problem of german compensations was mostly in direction to western countries and Western Germany always claimed that there is no legal successor of pre-war Germany since there are two Germanies,so there is no country responsible to pay compensations.This changed after reuinification of Germany.Then Germany claimed that the Bundesgovernment had already paid compensations in a series of secret agreements which settled the issue with western governments.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 08:23 / #
For long time I haven't seen your normal post :) I am not lawer, last time our lawers have some successes on this field ... at least we should know who much they should pay us. we will see

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Jun 6, 08, 09:09 / #
i wonder how much would Germany, USA, France, Britain pay for destruction of Yugoslavia when truth become obvious for international public? only demage of Serbia and Montenegro because of 1999 bombardment by NATO was approximately 100-200 mlrd US dollars

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Jun 6, 08, 09:16 / #
Lukasz: 60 mln euro / 218 (Greeks) * 5 mln (Polish citizens killed) 1 376 146 788 990 Euro roughly half of them Jews, and Germans already paid for those. Kinda. Besides, sure Germany will pay out E 1 376 146 788 990 because it's just the "right" thing to do. Then Ukrainians will sue Poles, Poles Ukrainians, Indians may sue Poles too because Pulaski and Kosciuszko contributed to the demise of the American natives. Of course we could also sue Swedes, Finns could sue Russians, Russians can sue Mongolia (although it would be cheaper to just invade it) and Czechs can sue Poland for Prague. We should definitely sue the Vatican, and the Vatican can sue Germans and Poland. Wouldn't it be easier to actually detonated all those nukes around the world at the same time?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 09:22 / #
zdariusz it would be nice to forget and move forward. everybody wants somthing Germans in our courts, Jews, we in Lithuanina courts, czechs. Law is law. that is why it is interesting case. as to me people like you are naive. Celinski is right when it comes to money there is no merci. do you consider lifes of Poles less valuable than Greeks ? of course no. That is why we should try to get as much as possible. 1 376 146 788 990 Euro read carefuly this articles I have posted. Germans had nothing to say when Greeks confiscated their properties in Italy.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Jun 6, 08, 09:45 / #
Lukasz: 1 376 146 788 990 Euro However 500000 Greeks died from hunger in the winter of 1941-1942 due to german occupation.They cannot be claimed as victims for compensations though because they died through indirect actions of Germans(seize of all food supplies in Greece for german soldiers). You have to find out how many polish civilians died due to shooting by german forces while they were unarmed and document it well. For example you cannot take into account losses during the 1939 war against Germany,losses by bombardment of polish cities by german planes,losses during Warsaw uprising etc.You have to find out cases of vandalisms,village destrauction and systematic civilian extermination.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 10:01 / #
I am not going to or calculate everything here. How many died here, how many died somewhere else and why... it is job for historicalns/lawers. Way Greeks have done it looks very interesting for me. Court in Italy property in Italy, Germans had nothing to say.

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Edited by: VaFunkoolo Jun 6, 08, 10:21 / #
Lukasz: That is why we should try to get as much as possible. It's just all about the money, huh?

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Jun 6, 08, 11:02 / #
Crow: no. that would Russians pay when finish with England Crow you truely are off your bloody rocker...do you honestly think that the English owe your country a penny? As Mr V said take the apples and be grateful! The English have paid enough supporting refuges that came to us flee your murdering countrymen, so maybe we should send you the bill? Yeah that sounds fair!

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jun 6, 08, 11:40 / #
Lukasz: we should go to courts. Why ? Let's loot them...

SoftsongThreads: 6 Posts: 588 Joined: Sep 2, 07	Edited by: Softsong Jun 6, 08, 12:50 / #
Seems like the point was well-made that almost all people have done terrible things to other people. What happened was despicable. But I believe most of the people responsible are dead, or close to it. How would suing a new generation of people help? Europeans nearly wiped out Native Americans when they came to the New World. African Americans were shipped as slaves to the New World. Rome was sacked. How can we make what happened better? It is done. We can learn from it, but all this talk of everyone getting even for past wrongs is what keeps nations continually hating each other.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jun 6, 08, 12:55 / #
He...Luki...I buy you a beer! :)

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Jun 6, 08, 10:26 / #
Crow: i wonder how much would Germany, USA, France, Britain pay for destruction of Yugoslavia when truth become obvious for international public? 10 Bob and 1/2lb of Granny Smiths?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Jun 6, 08, 10:31 / #
ShelleyS: 10 Bob and 1/2lb of Granny Smiths? no. that would Russians pay when finish with England

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jun 6, 08, 10:34 / #
You're the only one who cares, Crow. Take the apples and be done with it.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Jun 6, 08, 10:47 / #
VaFunkoolo: You're the only one who cares, Crow. Take the apples and be done with it. are you Polish?

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Edited by: VaFunkoolo Jun 6, 08, 10:49 / #
I'll ignore that comment as it was obviously made to provoke me into saying something rash

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Jun 6, 08, 10:56 / #
VaFunkoolo: to provoke me into saying something rash you felt that? So, you are Polish. You still care, brate. Good are Germans going to pay ? good God would arrange that they pay. They and all their friends

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Jun 6, 08, 11:20 / #
ShelleyS: The English have paid enough supporting refuges that came to us flee your murdering countrymen, so maybe we should send you the bill? Yeah that sounds fair! you created chaos which resulted in refuges from territories of former Yugoslavia, from all sides. You did all that in colaboration with your mujaheedine friends and then you blamed Serbians who were in fact your first target. For me, Germany or England, it`s same criminal crap. Your turn would come and you would all pay! and, when you heard that Russians are coming to you, don`t worry because of them. Run just when you heard that Serbians are first line of that army which coming to get you. For every pregnant Serbian woman that your maniacs killed you would pay- fu**** ugly people from islands with lips like rabbits

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Jun 6, 08, 11:51 / #
Grzegorz_: Why ? Let's loot them... Unfortunately in looting Germans are much better. We should go to cort after their barbarian looting of Poland.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Jun 6, 08, 12:28 / #
Lukasz: We should go to cort after their barbarian looting of Poland. You wil not win.The Russians will provide them all the documents that prove that after war communist government in Poland settled for compensations with DDR. Soviet Union did take war compensations from Eastern Germany.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 12:34 / #
southern: You wil not win.The Russians will provide them all the documents that prove that after war communist government in Poland settled for compensations with DDR. Maybe yes maybe not. Who knows. It is important to show what Germans have done, how much they have paid for Poles and how much for "others"

SlavicWarriorThreads: - Posts: 6 Joined: Jun 5, 08	Jun 6, 08, 13:01 / #
Time to move on. The German government is not the same that existed back then. Time for Europeans to clean up their non-white immigration problem. The cultures and lands of Europe are being altered forever. The loss of national identity is irreversable. If nothing will be done soon there will be no cultural identity except racially mixed-up confused people who only find their identity in the materialism they own and money shall become god.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 13:27 / #
Families of Polish victimes should get the same money as Greek. It is simple and honest. If Germans are paying for Greeks (this year) they should pay for Poles. It is law, for the same crime they should pay the same money.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 6, 08, 13:28 / #
Okay...when are you going to court Luki? URL Poland, Germany end World War II reparations dispute Polish and German leaders announced Thursday the dispute over World War II compensation claims between the two countries has been over. Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said their position was supported by a legal analysis drafted by both Polish and German experts for their regularly scheduled annual meeting in Krakow. According to the draft, which will be published soon, neither the property claims by Germans expelled from Poland after World War Two nor the Polish demands for reparations from Germany had legal basis. Earlier this year a group of Germans who lost property from former German territories ceded to Poland after World War Two demanded the Polish government return their expropriated property.They had filed compensation claims to the courts in Germany and the European Court. In retaliation, the Polish parliament passed a resolution in September calling on its government to submit reparation claims to Germany for losses suffered during the war. Too late... URL

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jun 6, 08, 13:34 / #
you have started to talk again about your claims ... we have processes with Germans in our courts (2008) you are going to have similar situation in international courts...

Wroclaw Boy	Jun 6, 08, 13:35 / #
I reckon the Germans owe me some money.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 6, 08, 13:36 / #
Lukasz: you started to talk about your claims ... we have processes with Germans in our courts ... you are going to have similar ... You start to sound shockingly like Crow...dreaming up irrational fantasys...playing "what if" scenarios...living solely in the past, denying realities! Do you want to end up like him? Is the polish reality really that bad???