More Revision of Historical Fact in Ynet News Israel

Grzegorz_:

polishcanuck:
Why don't Poles write their own articles about Jews siding with the soviets after ww1 to slaughter the polish intelligentsia???

Simply becouse Jews have much more influence around the world than Poles and any things like that are ridiculed and shown as a proof of "Polish zoological antisemitism".

“The need for a good historical atlas describing the history of the Jews in Poland has long been recognized. This carefully researched and well drawn volume will enable students and the lay public to better understand the complex problems of the Polish-Jewish past and of Polish-Jewish relations.”
-Anthony Polonsky, Professor of International History at the London School of Economics and Political Science; Professor of Jewish History at Brandeis University

scorpioThreads: 26 Posts: 196 Joined: Nov 15, 07	May 2, 08, 02:43 / #
In a recent article entitled entitled "When Warsaw cried" by Noah Klieger, two events in Polish history were interpreted incorrectly and exaggerated. The article states: "Among other things, Peres noted that in the wake of World War II, in the summer of 1946, hundreds of Poles including military and police personnel engaged in a pogrom in the Jewish center in Kielce, where more than 100 Jews were brutally murdered. Peres also made note of the 1968 expulsion of about 70,000 Jews." Until today, the initial instigators and perpetrators of the so called 'Kielce Pogrom" are being investigated by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance. There are 'two' version of the events in Kielce. One states that the pogrom was the brainchild of the Soviet (Russian) authorities during communist run Poland, as a way to discredit Poland. The Soviet's instigated and carefully orchestrated the events to unravel in a way that made it appear as though it were the work of the Poles. The second version, the one embraced by most Jewish historians and Jews alike, is that Polish Catholics attacked and killed Jews in a wild rampage, due to a blood libel rumor. Before any article mentions "Kielce", the author had better mention the 'two versions' of this ugly episode, and not only one until the true version is determined. In reference to the 1968 expulsion of Jews from Poland, how is the number "70,000" being determined? You can read any history book on thie event and clearly see that it was 20,000 to 35,000 Polish Jews that were expelled from the country by the Soviet dominated Communist government at that time, and not 70,000. Such articles are spewed out on a daily basis by the media, and people read and then subsequently believe what they read. Such articles must be examined and corrected, for the sake of historical truth.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 2, 08, 06:15 / #
Oh, I see. The Kielce pogrom was actually the work of Soviet authorities and they forced Poles, at gunpoint, to kill Jews. Just as they did in all the pogroms which followed the first world war.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	May 2, 08, 13:13 / #
Harry, enjoy the reading: Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski - The Pogrom of Kielce PS. I like your sarcasm ;)

polishcanuckThreads: 10 Posts: 583 Joined: Feb 11, 07	May 3, 08, 12:24 / #
Always whining... Jews always write about their suffering and blaming others. Why don't Poles write their own articles about Jews siding with the soviets after ww1 to slaughter the polish intelligentsia???

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski May 3, 08, 12:41 / #
scorpio: 'Kielce Pogrom Yes, there are different versions of what went on here...but I am going to make to controversial comments, and hopefully they will stimulate discussion: 1) As to Polish 'anti-semitism', this, in fact, existed because many Poles disliked and resented Jews, for many reasons...as for stories of various 'pogroms', all sides of the story must be examined to get a better perspective...2) 'Blood libel' : in fact, Jewish ritual 'slaughter' of non-Jewish children has gone on for centuries, and still occurs today, in various disguised form...this is an historical fact...now, this practice was carried out by certain 'elite' rabbinical elements, and was not known of, except by rumour, to the majority of the Jewish populace...in other words, certain extremist Jewsih sects engaged in this...for instance, the Chabbad Lubavitch sect, from Lithuania, has engaged in this, through it's dominant 'family', the Schneersons, who were implicated as being ritual slaughterers in a number of cases in Russia, including the famous Beilis case...this practice is called 'shechita' and the ritual slaughterer is called the 'shochet'.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 3, 08, 16:29 / #
polishcanuck: Why don't Poles write their own articles about Jews siding with the soviets after ww1 to slaughter the polish intelligentsia??? Simply becouse Jews have much more influence around the world than Poles and any things like that are ridiculed and shown as a proof of "Polish zoological antisemitism".

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 3, 08, 19:27 / #
joepilsudski: Jewish ritual 'slaughter' of non-Jewish children has gone on for centuries, and still occurs today, in various disguised form... You really are a complete and utter fuckwit aren't you? Why not mention the small fact that the house in Kielce where the Polish boy claimed he'd been held in the basement while the Jews prepared to slaughter him doesn't even have a basement?

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	May 3, 08, 22:33 / #
Harry: Why not mention the small fact that the house in Kielce where the Polish boy claimed he'd been held in the basement Did you even bother to read the article I posted?

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: Easy_Terran May 3, 08, 23:11 / #
Harry: You really are a complete and utter fuckwit aren't you? And YOU're gonna write two books about Poland? Good luck, Poland!

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry May 4, 08, 08:46 / #
Easy_Terran: Did you even bother to read the article I posted? I read the first half of it but it is such bollocks that there is no reason to waste time reading the rest of it. The author is clearly an anti-semite and several cards short of a full deck. Easy_Terran: And YOU're gonna write two books about Poland? Good luck, Poland! Not going to. Have. Am currently working on the third one.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 4, 08, 08:50 / #
Har, always ready to spread Polonophobia... always ready to twist discussion about Jewish anti-Polonism into "bad, bad Poles"... Oy...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 4, 08, 09:38 / #
Greg said it beautifully, the Jews have much more clout and media control than the Poles could ever dream about having. Maybe u don't see Harry, there has been Jewish revenge. America has allowed certain people to rise to prominent positions and carry out their hateful agendas. Like the Germans, they are powerless to stop these people who have secured power. The Nazis could only be overthrown by force. Who is gonna overthrow the Zionists/Masons and Jesuits? Nobody!! They buy everyone. Hitler didn't do that, he used military apparatus.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 4, 08, 09:47 / #
LOL, I think not

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 5, 08, 08:47 / #
Easy_Terran: Such a book about Jews in Poland, aplauded by historians can be written ONLY by a person who's "clearly an anti-semite and several cards short of a full deck". So by default any other work is antisemitic as well. He starts his article as follows: "On 4th of July of 2006 the catholic people of Kielce in central Poland were again intimidated by the alliance of Jews, liberals and postcommunist. They were humiliated because of the unvailling of a monument which falsely accused their ancestors of having acted as an “infuriated mob” and commited hideous crimes on the same day sixty years on some 40 Jewish victims." Sounds like the work of somebody who has never studied history because it is the work of somebody who has never studied history (your hero is a marine engineer by training). He's not a holocaust denier, he's a post-holocaust pogrom denier!

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	May 4, 08, 09:41 / #
Harry: Why not mention the small fact that the house in Kielce where the Polish boy claimed he'd been held in the basement while the Jews prepared to slaughter him doesn't even have a basement? conclusively proving beyond all reasonable doubt that all poles lie and are taught to do so at a young age

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: Easy_Terran May 4, 08, 19:12 / #
Grzegorz_: polishcanuck: Why don't Poles write their own articles about Jews siding with the soviets after ww1 to slaughter the polish intelligentsia??? Simply becouse Jews have much more influence around the world than Poles and any things like that are ridiculed and shown as a proof of "Polish zoological antisemitism". And here we have a prove of Greg's words: Harry: The author is clearly an anti-semite and several cards short of a full deck. “The need for a good historical atlas describing the history of the Jews in Poland has long been recognized. This carefully researched and well drawn volume will enable students and the lay public to better understand the complex problems of the Polish-Jewish past and of Polish-Jewish relations.” -Anthony Polonsky, Professor of International History at the London School of Economics and Political Science; Professor of Jewish History at Brandeis University Such a book about Jews in Poland, aplauded by historians can be written ONLY by a person who's "clearly an anti-semite and several cards short of a full deck". So by default any other work is antisemitic as well. lol

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	May 5, 08, 09:19 / #
Harry: He's not a holocaust denier, he's a post-holocaust pogrom denier! Let us say that pogroms happened exactly as portrayed by Jews...when one person kills another person, say a wife murders her husband, there must be a reason behind this...unless the murderer is a sociopath with no consciousness regarding right or wrong...now, if Poles killed Jews in pogroms, was there a reason?...did Jews do something to provoke such attacks?...this would not justify killing, but would provide some rational explanation...are Poles sociopaths?...are Jews eternal victims being persecuted for no reason or crimes on their part?

eric_the_naveThreads: - Posts: 47 Joined: Jul 27, 07	May 5, 08, 09:31 / #
Harry, I would have thought that as a historian your job is to review all available material and analyse it objectively. Not to dismiss an opinion after reading a couple of paragraphs because you believe the author is an anti-semite. The equivalent would be dismissing your books without reading them on the basis that you are clearly anti-polish.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry May 5, 08, 10:49 / #
joepilsudski: now, if Poles killed Jews in pogroms, was there a reason?... If? If? Even David Irving doesn't deny that Poles killed Jews in pogroms. But you say "if Poles killed Jews in pogroms". Nice to see how far to the extreme of the right-wing you are. joepilsudski: did Jews do something to provoke such attacks?... "Jews killed our Christ" is the usual excuse giving for Poles killing Jews and stealing their property. eric_the_nave: Harry, I would have thought that as a historian your job is .... I'm not a professional historian and have never wanted to be. eric_the_nave: you are clearly anti-polish. If I bothered applying for the Polish passport which I am entitled to, I would be Polish. Am I anti-myself?

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski May 5, 08, 11:10 / #
Harry: "Jews killed our Christ" is the usual excuse giving for Poles killing Jews and stealing their property. Is it really?...I have heard that one, but not from Polish people...could it be that Jewish neighbors stole money or property from Poles, or, possibly cheated them some way in business transactions?...you know of course that Polish people loathed Communism, which is a Jewish creation from Marx to Lenin/Trotsky...is there any Jewish hostility towards the Catholic Church or even the person of Christ?...are Jews sin free?...Here is a Jewish saying: Leolam Teckach...I beleive it is Hebrew, maybe Yiddish or a mixture of both...maybe this explains some things? But, all this being said, Poles and Jews lived in relative peace for many, many years...there are greedy people in every tribe, and sometimes tribes have conflicts...but, looking toward the future, maybe there can be better understanding.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 5, 08, 11:19 / #
Harry: "Jews killed our Christ" is the usual excuse giving for Poles killing Jews and stealing their property. Har, once again typical Polonophobic and anti-Christian garbage portraying Poles as stupid peasants chasing innocent, smart and obviously uber persecuted Jews. Harry: If I bothered applying for the Polish passport which I am entitled to, I would be Polish. No, you wouldn't be. Harry: Am I anti-myself? You are obviously Polonophobic and your Polonophobia is so deep and natural (sucked with your mother's milk?) that you probably don't even realize that.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	May 5, 08, 11:22 / #
Grzegorz_: You are obviously Polonophobic and your Polonophobia is so deep and natural (sucked with your mother's milk?) that you probably don't even realize that. Ah, Poles and Jews love that mother's tit!

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 5, 08, 11:27 / #
What's wrong with tits ?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 5, 08, 11:37 / #
Grzegorz_: Harry: If I bothered applying for the Polish passport which I am entitled to, I would be Polish. No, you wouldn't be. If I had a Polish passport, I would be Polish. Or is your statement just another example of the casual racism which infests your posts? Do you think that I can never be Polish because I am not Christian enough for you? Grzegorz_: You are obviously Polonophobic and your Polonophobia is so deep and natural (sucked with your mother's milk?) that you probably don't even realize that. Yes, obviously I hate Poland and Poles. That's why out of all the countries I could live and work in, I chose to come to Poland. It's also why I've been living here for more than a decade. My mother really couldn't give a sh!t about Poland or Poles. She never even thought about the place or the people until I moved here. But it's nice of you to insult my mother anyway, really adds an air of authority to your post.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: Easy_Terran May 5, 08, 12:04 / #
Harry: He's not a holocaust denier, he's a post-holocaust pogrom denier! My 'hero' is an applauded by historians author of many books on history. He provides facts and sources. The quote above only proves further what Greg had said: "any things like that [Pogonowski's work in this example] are ridiculed and shown as a proof of Polish zoological antisemitism." Harry: If I bothered applying for the Polish passport which I am entitled to, I would be Polish. Am I anti-myself? Being entitled to have a Polish passport doesn't mean you ARE Polish. And you're clearly anti-Polish. Harry: your hero is a marine engineer by training) Harry: I'm not a professional historian and have never wanted to be. And of course your books are ultimate truth, and eveybody who doesn't like them is an antisemite. At the same time, Pogonowski's readers are antisemites, because Ponowski himself isn't a historian (with a degree that is) and is clrearly antisemite. Your facts - oh, they're so pretty. His facts - not good, he's not a historian and is an antisemite. Is that correct, or Am I missing something?

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	May 5, 08, 12:40 / #
Harry: But it's nice of you to insult my mother anyway Oh, so now you're insulted? Well, well... Tasted your own medicine and didn't like it? I am surprised.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	May 5, 08, 13:45 / #
Easy_Terran: Being entitled to have a Polish passport doesn't mean you ARE Polish We have this situation in the USA...for instance, Michael Chertoff, dual Israeli-American citizen is clearly not an American, yet he runs the Dept. of Homeland Security to protect us from terrorism!...this is only one example,

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 5, 08, 13:52 / #
Easy_Terran: Being entitled to have a Polish passport doesn't mean you ARE Polish. And what, other than a Polish passport, would make somebody Polish? Or do you mean that you think I'm a Jew and in your eyes Jews are unfit to be Polish? Yes, that's probably what you mean. Easy_Terran: And of course your books are ultimate truth, and eveybody who doesn't like them is an antisemite. At the same time, Pogonowski's readers are antisemites, because Ponowski himself isn't a historian (with a degree that is) and is clrearly antisemite. The gentleman tries to hide Polish responsibility for Polish crimes like the Kielce pogrom. Why would a real historian try to do that? Easy_Terran: Your facts - oh, they're so pretty. His facts - not good, he's not a historian and is an antisemite. Historians are unbiased observers of past times. This joker tries to blame everybody except Poles for what Poles did. Which part of this do you not understand: there was a pogrom in Kielce in 1946, the people do did the killing were Poles. Even the Polish IPN (not normally noted for loving Jews) dismissed the theory of Soviet inspiration because of "lack of direct evidence and lack of obvious Soviet interest in provoking the events". Easy_Terran: Am I missing something? A brain, obviously.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: Easy_Terran May 5, 08, 13:53 / #
I thought that dual passport holders are crossed out compeletly while applying for mere and smallest government position :O Harry, you're a funny guy, you know that? Harry: you think I'm a Jew and in your eyes Jews are unfit to be Polish Keep putting words into persons' mouths. Harry: The gentleman tries to hide Polish responsibility for Polish crimes like the Kielce pogrom This gentleman draws a bigger picture to explain this propaganda. Harry: A brain, obviously. Way to go, Harry! Bravo. Insult me, keep insulting others. That only shows how limited you are.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry May 5, 08, 14:00 / #
joepilsudski: Michael Chertoff, dual Israeli-American citizen is clearly not an American, yet he runs the Dept. of Homeland Security to protect us from terrorism!...this Why is he not an American? Because he is a Jew? He was born and has lived all his life in the USA. He qualifies for Israeli citizenship but has never claimed it. His mother, who was born in Poland, emigrated to Israel and worked as a flight attendant for El Al Airlines. Israel's citizenship law of 1952 says: "Any Jew who immigrated to Israel before July 14, 1952, was granted citizenship after declaring a desire to reside permanently in Israel." Furthermore, a "child born on or after July 14, 1952," is an Israeli citizen if "at least one of whose parents is a citizen of Israel, regardless of the child's country of birth." Do you understand that? Chertoff is a citizen of Israel under Israeli law, not because he chose it. It is simply a fact of his birth. Easy_Terran: I thought that dual passport holders are crossed out compeletly while applying for mere and smallest government position :O If you had a brain, you'd realise Chertoff does not hold two passports.