Moscow Paper Recalls when Soviets and Nazis Marched Together

"Such actions by the Soviet secret police during the Russian civil war and by Soviet forces in Poland in cooperation with the Nazis must be remembered, especially at a time when Vladimir Putin says that the destruction of the Soviet Union was "the greatest tragedy of the 20th century" and when his supporters want to re-erect the statue of Dzerzhinsky in front of the Lubyanka."

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 23, 08, 08:53 / #
This article show where Russia is allowing "Vladimir Putin" to continue down the wrong path. IMO Putin is acting as if he can alter history just as Stalin did. When will he understand this type of media today holds Russia apart from the Nation. We know the truth and cannot be silenced. Are we to believe that Russian's today have blinders and do not really know? "Such actions by the Soviet secret police during the Russian civil war and by Soviet forces in Poland in cooperation with the Nazis must be remembered, especially at a time when Vladimir Putin says that the destruction of the Soviet Union was "the greatest tragedy of the 20th century" and when his supporters want to re-erect the statue of Dzerzhinsky in front of the Lubyanka." http://georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=792 4&Itemid=65

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Sep 23, 08, 10:01 / #
Yawn! You are a pure Russiaphobe

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 23, 08, 10:29 / #
ShelleyS: You are a pure Russiaphobe Call it what you want. You do not brag today about the ones that were murdered yesterday. What about the Russian's that were killed, are you saying they should not matter? Time to wake up and see you are being lead down the wrong path.

ParisJazzThreads: 2 Posts: 196 Joined: Oct 23, 07	Sep 23, 08, 11:08 / #
celinski: This article show where Russia is allowing "Vladimir Putin" to continue down the wrong path. IMO Putin is acting as if he can alter history just as Stalin did. For an, allegedly, female forum member, you are certainly the type who'd put a bloke off. PJ

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 23, 08, 11:11 / #
ParisJazz: allegedly, female forum member No alligations here. :) This is well worth the time to watch. CBC - The Passionate Eye - The Putin System http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6580938720868203336

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Sep 23, 08, 12:53 / #
ShelleyS: Yawn! You are a pure Russiaphobe not exactly. she seems to care about PL and doesn't want the evil russkies to get an other one over on PL. celinski: Moscow Paper Recalls when Soviets and Nazis Marched Together good ol' days.. bastards.. and crow has a gull to say russia never wanted to whipe PL out.. dreamy fuker he is.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 23, 08, 13:04 / #
loco polaco: she seems to care about PL and doesn't want the evil russkies to get an other one over on PL. Thank you, this is absurd that in 2008 insensitivity is so large. I wonder how Germany is feeling on this?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 23, 08, 13:50 / #
celinski: "Vladimir Putin" to continue down the wrong path Putin`s political path going to oblivion fu** all Slavic traitors! celinski: there are additional brave people in Moscow willing to speak out against a trend that not only distorts the past but opens the way for more abuses in the future Poljaci i Poljakinje, sestre i braćo, pomozite da Rusija bude bolja, ne radite protiv Rusa! Sve je to naš narod Poles, help that Russia becomes bater, don`t work against Russians! Its all our people

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 23, 08, 13:52 / #
celinski: Thank you, this is absurd that in 2008 insensitivity is so large. Look in your own Mirror Cel...Danzig rings a bell? You are great only with pointing the finger at others..

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 23, 08, 14:29 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Danzig Well lets see 1945 Poland, who ran Poland until 1989, "Soviet". How can you blame Poland, you attacked Poland with Soviets and Soviets in 1945 gave this to "Communist run Poland". Wow we really made out like bandits. lol You are still trying to blame Poland for Soviets actions. Please tell me what Poland gainned? In 1945 with the end of World War II, as a result of Potsdam Conference, the Prussia is divided between Poland and Soviet Union, and after its fall also between Lithuania, Latvia and Russia. And those borderlines stay the same to this day. http://www.electricscotland.com/history/prussia/danzig.htm

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Sep 23, 08, 18:14 / #
celinski: the Red Terror Red terror,white terror,black terror.You,celinski,what kind of terror do you prefer?

Warsaw8Threads: 7 Posts: 227 Joined: Jul 23, 08	Sep 23, 08, 22:57 / #
The article is alittle all over. The Russians marched with the germans twice, once before the attack, and then after. When Germans invaded with artilary, Russian divisions joined them, some willingly some not. Russians wanted out of jew communism as bad as the Germans wanted to defeat it. Russian people waved and cryed as they marched together through towns making their way east to Moscow, pictures and statues of Stalin were being taken down by Russians and replaced with Hitler.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 24, 08, 00:16 / #
celinski: We know the truth and cannot be silenced. "I know only one thing, that I don't know anything." Sokrates Carol you're taking too much on yourself sticking your nose to other's business. I'm ok with any point of view as long as it's well-founded but pls spare me of your kindergarten statements with proofs. They're merely funny and not worth serious comments. You're just lack of knowledge on the points you're trying to preach us [Russians]. Too bad you deleted your silly thoughts about white and red terror. If you still want to know, book I may suggest reading is "Tikhiy Don" (Quiet Don) by Sholohov. Secondly the only fact you're against putin and suppose he's bad, doesn't automatically mean you're good or you're right. There're only a few degnified members in Russian opposition I know. Also I think it's just not polite of you to mind other's business while you seem to have no clue on what is good and what is bad. BB is right. Look at the mirror. You're american not a whit better than those who've voted here for putin. P.S. Reading of georgian media for you is like a treating alcoholism with vodka. loco polaco: ShelleyS: Yawn! You are a pure Russiaphobe not exactly. she seems to care about PL and doesn't want the evil russkies to get an other one over on PL. Shelley, here's another one.

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Sep 24, 08, 06:01 / #
celinski: You do not brag today about the ones that were murdered yesterday. I prefer to remember in a dignified way about those who lost their lives, not just Polish but English, German, Russian and so on and so on...I also prefer to look forward and to appreciate that now we have a united Europe, whilst it may not be perfect, we seem to be getting along just fine. Maybe it would be better if certain countries didn't want to put missile shields into certain countries!! You seem to have to blame someone Carol, whether it be the Germans or Jews and it would see the Russians are in the stoplight this week - most Europeans have moved on, you should take a trip and see that in general people are happy and not suffering any ill effects of communism, all the former Eastern Block countries are "thriving"

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Sep 23, 08, 17:22 / #
Crow: Poljaci i Poljakinje, sestre i braćo, pomozite da Rusija bude bolja, ne radite protiv Rusa! Sve je to naš narod Poles, help that Russia becomes bater, don`t work against Russians! Its all our people nyet. what about Gdańsk kraut boy? it's a polish city and always has been. ahahahaha

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Sep 23, 08, 18:08 / #
loco polaco: ahahahaha Sure...lotsa Poles in Danzig before '45...couldn't walk there were so many!

ParisJazzThreads: 2 Posts: 196 Joined: Oct 23, 07	Sep 24, 08, 04:37 / #
celinski: In 1945 with the end of World War II, as a result of Potsdam Conference, the Prussia is divided between Poland and Soviet Union, and after its fall also between Lithuania, Latvia and Russia. Yada yada yada. You definitely are a turn-off. PJ

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: celinski Sep 24, 08, 06:18 / #
Sasha: You're just lack of knowledge on the points you're trying to preach us [Russians]. Correct me on the points you are referring to vs. name calling like a child. Sasha: Carol you're taking too much on How sweet of you to care. Sasha: Shelley, here's another one. You are to silly, "another one" ? Don't tell me your tracking? Sasha: who've voted here for putin. You think they counted vote? Sasha: the only fact you're against putin and suppose he's bad, doesn't automatically mean you're good or you're right. This is rather amusing, first I am opposed to Moscow's spin on history, one day we hear "we are not Soviet's" , next running articles boasting your barbaric past. Make up your mind. While your thinking maybe you should question the wisdom of "Moscow Paper" printing this? Seems the reminders of power over your neighbors keeps being brought up from within. Sasha: There're only a few degnified members in Russian opposition I know "Russian opposition" as in Russian's that blow the whisle on goverment or outsiders that speak out. Inside Russia you just get killed or arrested, outside seems to speak for itself. ShelleyS: not suffering any ill effects of communism, all the former Eastern Block countries are "thriving" How's this for an understatement. ShelleyS: You seem to have to blame someone Carol Let's go with the one that put the article in print then. This mentality is rather sad. If you have, as you say "moved on" then why was this article put out?

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Sep 24, 08, 06:40 / #
celinski: as you say "moved on" then why was this article put out? There are plenty of "articles" out there about various topics. I don't expect people to forget about what has happened, but most people are constructive and have got on with their lives and have gone on to do very well for themselves. You talk about events in a country you have never even been to, like I said take a trip, then again, you might be dissapointed to see that people are actually happy and getting on with things.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 24, 08, 06:55 / #
ShelleyS: take a trip, then again, you might be dissapointed to see that people are actually happy This is Poland Politics & History Then why did you put this in print? Or was this just for Russian and Germany? Seems to me it is salt in the wound. The sad part is I Putin was able to restore your country and do positive for Russia.

dtaylorThreads: 15 Posts: 992 Joined: Sep 15, 07	Sep 24, 08, 07:04 / #
celinski: The sad part is I Putin was able to restore your country and do positive for Russia. Haven't Polish people already restored their country? If you don't get on with your life, and leave history as history, then you will never move on. Have you ever been to Poland Cel?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 24, 08, 07:17 / #
dtaylor: leave history as history, then you will never move on. Have you ever been to Poland Cel? I did not write the article. This is "History". And from the article I posted: "But remembering such things is becoming ever more important not only for the sake of historical accuracy but because of the growing tendency among some Russian government officials and many ordinary Russians to put a positive spin on some of the most odious aspects of the Soviet past, including state terrorism." No I have never been to Poland. I have never been to the family graves, seen my fathers birth place or the country my Grandfather fought to free. dtaylor: you will never move on. Where shall I move to, this is an article on history. If you feel its alright for Russia to brag about a march that killed millions,this is fine, I don't.

dtaylorThreads: 15 Posts: 992 Joined: Sep 15, 07	Sep 24, 08, 07:27 / #
celinski: No I have never been to Poland. I have never been to the family graves, seen my fathers birth place or the country my Grandfather fought to free. So really it's only u on a one woman crusade, hoping to achieve what? Maybe its only cos you havent been to Poland, and seen how the country has moved on since then, that you cant move on yourself?? take a trip, you might even enjoy yourself. Who cares what Russia may or may not want to publish. Im sure each Russian knows history as much as the next, and can tell the difference from true facts and lies. celinski: Where shall I move to, this is an article on history. If you feel its alright for Russia to brag about a march that killed millions,this is fine, I don't. I don't know, to get a life, get laid and have something more important than ranting on and on about how cruel history was to your family.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 24, 08, 07:43 / #
dtaylor: Maybe its only cos you havent been to Poland, What are you talking about? This is an article from Russia and has nothing to do with present day Poland. dtaylor: how cruel history was to your family My family, this is not about my family. Have you even read the article? "Such distortions of history and especially of the crimes of the Soviet past are once again increasing. Fortunately, in addition to the article just cited, there are additional brave people in Moscow willing to speak out against a trend that not only distorts the past but opens the way for more abuses in the future." dtaylor: get laid I prefer a bed vs. my key board.

dtaylorThreads: 15 Posts: 992 Joined: Sep 15, 07	Edited by: dtaylor Sep 24, 08, 07:47 / #
celinski: I prefer a bed vs. my key board. Thats good to know, i was starting to worry that you got your kicks through Russia Bashing. Maybe a Russian Gimp tied to the corner of your bedstand....:D

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 24, 08, 07:49 / #
dtaylor: Maybe a Russian Gimp tied to the corner of your bedstand....:D lol dtaylor: got your kicks through Russia Bashing. they wrote the article not me.

dtaylorThreads: 15 Posts: 992 Joined: Sep 15, 07	Sep 24, 08, 07:53 / #
It seems like the Russian people aren't going to forget what happened to their families in the past. The millions of political prisoners who were sent to build the "road of bones" in eastern Siberia surely have families who won't allow the history to be changed. I don't think you need to worry.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Sep 24, 08, 08:14 / #
ShelleyS: take a trip, then again, you might be dissapointed to see that people are actually happy and getting on with things. celinski: Inside Russia you just get killed or arrested Shelley, she's afraid of getting arrested or killed. sigh Poor brainwashed american woman... celinski: This is Poland Politics & History Then wtf are all of your threads are about Russia or putin? celinski: Correct me on the points you are referring Have you ever listened to anybody here? Nope... you're totally obsessed with your silly thoughts. Thus correcting you doesn't make any sense to me, however I pointed out some "reading for summer". celinski: You are to silly Too silly to be on the same wavelength with you? Sounds like a compliment. celinski: You think they counted vote? Oh... Excuse moi... next time when I need to learn the real truth I will consult some dumb american specimen. They were counted. 30 to 50% are his, however about 20-30% of all votes were fabricated. Your problem is that you have no idea on what is going on in Russia meanwhile declaring "we know the true"... My gosh... how funny you are. celinski: Make up your mind. My mind is fine. I have my own opinion on the most of crucial events of our history. I don't much care about what media says. If just I find the information interesting I read it. celinski: Russia you just get killed or arrested, outside seems to speak for itself. The quote ranks #1 in the chart of ignorant stupidity for today. dtaylor: It seems like the Russian people aren't going to forget what happened to their families in the past. The millions of political prisoners who were sent to build the "road of bones" in eastern Siberia surely have families who won't allow the history to be changed. I don't think you need to worry. The smart thought seems even smarter against the background of Carol's posts.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 24, 08, 08:25 / #
Sasha: Then wtf are all of your threads are about Russia or putin? WTF were the Soviets and Nazis marching about? Sasha: she's afraid of getting arrested or killed No way, I would not be in Russia, I would be in Poland. :) I'll let you know when I'm going to be there and I'll buy you a drink. Sasha: Have you ever listened to anybody here? In fact, yes I do and learn something new all the time.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Sep 24, 08, 09:14 / #
loco polaco: nyet. what about Gdańsk kraut boy? it's a polish city and always has been. ahahahaha what nyet? what kraut boy? what ahahahaha? are you out of your mind? consolidate yourself man, be resonable its all peace of cake... If Gdańsk was Polish, it would be Polish again. Serbians would arange everything. Don`t worry. I clearly see solution, i telling to you, clearly