Poles executed in Warsaw '1939-44'

Hi all,

I have quite an extensive list of several thousand names of those Poles executed by the Nazis in Warsaw and its environs for the period 39-44.

If you suspect someone suffered this fate, give me a name and dob and I'll check the list. In some cases I can give the circumstances and photos (portraits) of those killed.

^ Got any info about the gassing tunnel on Bema?

Can you run Celinski for me. Although my grandfather and family were in Kresy, the rest were near Warsaw. I did get a picture from Warsaw musuem of Edward and 3 died in Katyn but other family members vanished from the face of the earth. Thank you, Carol

I have a Kazimierz Ceglinski b 1.1.20. Held in custody and shot 16.6.44 for 'vile and craven assaults' against Germans.

No exact match for 'Celinski' though.

There is also a Eugenia Ceglinska - not much detail but deported to a prison camp 6.6.44. As far as I can glean, for AK related activities.

while i usually hate it when somebody posts about 'historic events' in Poland such as these so that people can come on and moan and talk about how hard done by the Polish people and country are. In this case i applaud you for being able to offer people information about their relatives, friends etc etc in these times.

Even though i have nobody in this situation its a good job your doing with this topic and i'm sure you'll be able to settle people's queries, good job :)

Well, it is a legitimate part of Polish history, and this is a Polish forum, so people are welcome to talk about it, or "moan" (BTW, if you said that Jews talking about the Holocaust were moaning about it, you would be branded an anti-Semite in an instant). It seems you do not quite believe in the atrocities committed by Germans in occupied Poland? Come on, a few folks got shot here or there, whatever's the problem :-/

strange. i read his post 27 times just to be sure what he said. couldnt find anything that made it seem he doesnt quite believe in the atrocities committed by germand in occupied poland - do you think you could provide a quote...

When did i say that i didn't believe!!!!!?????. Of course i do believe that atrocities like this happened. I also believe the Holocaust happened, i think you'll find my point was people contiually moaning and being bitter about history. WHat has happened in the past has happened, although we'd like to change it we can't. I believe people should stop complaining and crying into their tissues because of frustration.

Instead people should remember, by all means have a post that recognises the Holocaust or any other mass murder where people can pay their respects. That is a whole lot different from a topic which is full of moaning, growning complaining Poles who are just bitter about the war etc etc.

I do not appreciate the fact that you deemed it ok to manipulate my words into something that they were not written to represent. I should really ask for an apology but i doubt you have the stomach for it.

With reference to this topic i think you'll also find i was congratulating the OP for his contribution, he has vital information which could help people to find out what happened to their relatives and put their minds at rest about what happened and the circumstances surrounding their deaths. When i first saw the topic i must admit i thought, not another damn bitter, moany, typical PF topic based on history, however this is actually one of the ones that has a point to it.

I hope you understand where i'm coming from now Magdalena, as you clearly didn't seem to understand in the first place. Obviously your interpretation was a little of this morning :)

thnx

T

Just an impression I got while reading about Polish people moaning on and on about what happened to them during WW2. I allowed myself to react in the same way a Jewish person would react if someone said the Jews were moaning on and on about pogroms and stuff. I would like to put some things in perspective. Why shouldn't Poles moan all they want about German occupation? Didn't they suffer? The only reason I can find is that someone thinks they did not *really* suffer that much. Hence my evil assumption as above.

the poles are of course free to moan all they want about anything they want. but nobody likes a moaner, especially one that goes on and on and on and on and on and on. so of course the poles will moan that nobody likes them and how hard done by they are. which they do. constantly. poles will also read things into what people have said that arent actually there. which you yourself have just done. i think you can see where im going with this...

It was over 60 years ago, Poland has moved on from those times, shouldn't the Polish people be looking forward to a brighter future rather than looking back on a bleak past. WHat do you want the current generation of Poles to grow up doing?? Feeling bitter about the past or looking forward to their and Poland's future???

As i said before its right to remember, although we didn't suffer like you in the war we have a 'rememberance day' for our armed forces who were lost in battle throughout history. We don't go on and on about it but pay our respects on that day. For me there is a big difference between moaning and paying respects. There is of course a place for recognition of an event and rememberance.

WHY ARE PEOPLE STUCK IN THE PAST???? I'm so glad i'm not around older Poles who are bitter about this sort of thing, its like been around elder statesman of the former USSR. They hark on about being under Soviet rule when in the current point in time their country is an independent state!!!!! I thought it would be better to concentrate on the prospects rather than the pittfalls of the past.

LOOK FORWARD, put a smile on the face of Poles instead of reminding them of the glum past. I'm so pleased that the new generation of Poles aren't really to bothered about moaning about the past, while at the same time they are aware of what happened and probably pay their respects they don't continually moan about it in the bitter manner i see on here.

T

I DO understand what you are trying to say. But do you understand what I am trying to say? Not a chance. Visit any thread about Jewish suffering in Poland, and say the same things you have said in this one, like "oh stop the moaning, it's done and gone, move forward" and see what happens then. I have been struck by the inequality of approach - very much. Why are some victims deemed to be superior to others? So, by all means, stop the moaning - everyone. If it's history, it's history - for everybody.


I am really sorry I upset you. I just wanted to pinch you a little bit to get a genuine response. My bad.

holocaust-trc.org/poles.htm

"I have issued the command and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by firing squad-that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness—for the present only in the East— with orders to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space that we need."

check it.

your arrogance is offensive


if you want to deem some victims superior to others that up to you but i personally feel its difficult to be superior when youre dead. whatsmore, if you take a moment to stop focussing solely on your own issues you will find that most people are fed up with the jews moaning too.

i do go on soe of the other topics and tell people to stop moaning about the past and look to the future :). I think these groups of people forget that 'EVERYBODY' suffered in the war, let alone jews, Poles, Russians, Brits or whatever. There were a lot of people who died or were executed during the war.

I mentioned remembrance day because i think it would be appropriate for Poland to have a day to remember all those who were lost in the war 'armed forces' or 'civilian'.

cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/01/warsaw.rising/index.html

'Warsaw Rising: Forgotten Soldiers of WWII'

"In the end, the Nazis slaughtered the Polish resistance and demolished Warsaw. More than 200,000 people died, half a million were driven out of the city and more than three quarters of the underground army perished."

thanks, no problem you didn't upset me i just didn't want people to think i meant anything else than what i meant to come accross.

Well, fair and square then.


That would be November 1st. This is a day to remember all our dead.

I would not be getting agitated by all this if not the recent trend to absolve Germans of any WW2-associated guilt and actually turn the tables on the Poles, claiming that they were rabid Jew-haters and murderers, happy to help the Nazis with their work. In this context, telling Poles to shut up and get on with it means this distorted view of history will not get corrected, and in the long run we might end up as the greatest villains of WW2 :-( BTW, I know I'm exaggerating a bit here - but not as much as you might think.

I totally understand what you are saying, however dosen't this just fuel my point about looking elsewhere apart from the past. I can't believe 60 years on and in other cases a lot more people are still looking to blame each other. HOw about people just square this all away and try and get on with each other. Do you think when i meet a German i think of the war and Germans' bombing Britain, no of course not. I'm sure your the same, in fact i'm sure thats the case for most people.

I would never suggest that people are exaggerating what happened, of course these events took place and of course they were horrible. There just comes a time when people need to learn to move on, remember yes, to continually debate and moan and look to blame, no. What is the point in all that??? People understand and recognise what the Germans did in the war and in fact any other nation who was responsible for war crimes.

there is no such trend. you really are making some wild claims. the germans have confronted their past, dealt with it and moved on. you are well advised to do the same

The Warsaw Rising Museum

a Short Film About Killing

Unfortunately, what you say below confirms my wild claims:

I didn't hear anyone ask you for your opinion on the subject. If we wish to ***** and moan about the past, or indeed talk about any subject, we will. If you don't like it, you are well advised to push on and wave the finger somewhere else.

i have no idea what youve read into the words this time but youll find that the germans have confronted their past, dealt with it and moved on. you are well advised to do the same

i hope your not a translator


dont want to patronise you or anything skippy, but if you post on a public forum you will get responses you might not like

ive said you are free to moan about anything you want but that nobody likes a moaner

Jewish holocaust is a political tool.It has a significance.Polish holocaust is a bother,an unpleasant discussion,a burden to political development.So you cannot compare the two things because they serve different purposes.

Well, actually I am, and so I happen to know what "to confront the past" means. If you did not mean to say what you have actually said, then maybe you should choose your words more wisely next time. ;-p

Also, as an aside, I never said it was the Germans pushing this trend I speak of. So maybe you are not so good at reading other people's posts either? (I know, I know, I have offended you again - but actually, I am just teasing you. Z góry przepraszam). :->


Very true.

Better watch out tough guy or I'll kick you with my legs!

Seriously mate - haven't you got anything better to do than come here and dole out advices to people who don't really care what you think. Do you honestly believe that anyone here cares and will change their discussion habits because poor ol' Boobba doesn't like a moaner - I think you'll find no one likes a whingeing Pom.

magda, the germans have confronted their past, they did it some time ago, held their hand up, promised never to do it again and then moved on with life... as did the rest of europe

i hope you dont charge people for your translation services as they an not very accurate. i reread my posts 13 times and nowhere does it say it was the germans pushing the trend. in fact i said there was no trend. as there isnt. how do you come up with these wildly inaccurate interpretations of what people have written?

Ozi - do you think tht anyone will start giving a fuk about what happened in poland 60 yrs ago just because a few people moan about it on a forum? you poles need to get over yourselves, seriously

Thats the point numb nuts - lots of Poles do care about what happened 60 years ago because they lost family and want to know what happened. Why do you think there's a history thread.

Aren't you the dill who was pretending to be drunk and posting nasty stuff about Poles on the forum a few weeks ago? Sipping beers and typing on a computer - what an exciting life you must lead. Original nuttah my left nut.

Dear Bubba - firstly, I am not translating what you have said into Polish. I am just trying to understand what you wrote. This probably means that you are not expressing yourself very accurately. Hm?

Yes, true, you did not say it was the Germans pushing the trend, but you brought them up anyway. I have nothing against the Germans in this respect. Yeah, they have apologized and moved on. Then, you tell me the Polish should do the same - i.e. confront their past (which means there are bad things lurking there) and move on. The Poles would actually be very happy to move on, myself included, if not for the fact that somehow perception of WW2 Poland is being changed, and this is not a figment of my imagination. I do not wish to "move on" into a future in which Poland is continuously forced to apologize for wrongs not committed, or re-apologize over and over again for things it had already acknowledged and apologized for (vide Jedwabne). When I look back at Poland during the war, I do not see much I would need to confront and deal with, and rather little to be ashamed of. As long as that's OK, I am fine to carry on into the next century and shut up. The problem is that once you look round the net a little, and visit some websites and forums, you realize that this is not OK, and will not be OK anytime soon. This is why the Polish people will continue to present their version of events. If you call it moaning, so be it. Over and out - I need to work on some wildly inaccurate translations now.