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Russian's blame Nazis for "Katyn",are we going backwards?

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celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Feb 6, 08, 07:20 / #
In this Feb. 4,2008 artical Russia takes a big step backwards in inproving relationships with Polish. I personally have family murdered and buried at "Katyn" and want the country behind it, "Russia", to stop with the bs game of blaming Germany. Nazis responsible for Katyn massacre, says Russian daily polskieradio.pl/thenews/foreign-affairs/?id=75133

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Feb 6, 08, 08:02 / #
But may be he is right? Just imagine what would be with polish world view if it would be rightful supposition?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Feb 6, 08, 08:14 / #
ConstantineK wrote: But may be he is right? No he is not right. This was a fact and many are still alive that recall what took place. My grandfather was to be put to death but escaped. Documents have surfaced that confirm what took place. By changing the stance on what took place is insulting and victimizing the Polish people all over.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Feb 6, 08, 08:21 / #
They might be mistaken, because they are humans. Suppose those was Russian speaking Germans. I know Russians they couldn't commit such atrocious deed.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Feb 6, 08, 08:28 / #
ConstantineK wrote: I know Russians they couldn't commit such atrocious deed. What about Siberia, or the Soviets Stalin killed.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Feb 6, 08, 08:32 / #
celinski wrote: What about Siberia It's a nice country celinski wrote: or the Soviets Stalin killed When? I supposed that we had rached a consensus, that Stalin was a Hero, am I right?

wozzyThreads: 13 Posts: 231 Joined: Jul 12, 06	Feb 6, 08, 09:14 / #
celinski wrote: the last one being inspired by the Oscar nomination for Andrzej Wajda's film Katyn. this film is out on dvd 21st february....just ordered a copy from Merlin.pl ...with english subtitles 66zl including post and packing to england.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 6, 08, 09:52 / #
i say we attack russia too.. they ain't playing by our rules. let's roll. :D

michal85Threads: 1 Posts: 18 Joined: Feb 1, 08	Feb 6, 08, 10:49 / #
celinski wrote: Aleksandr Szirokorad claims that the massacre could not have possibly been the doing of the NKVD since the ropes used for tying the victims' wrists and bullets were not those used by the NKVD. Sure, they blame the Nazis for everything. Yet they are just the opposite side of the same coin. There are many propagandists who will publish articles and write books on this subject. It is clear that the Russian government was responsible for this massacre, and they have proof of it stored in their own classified archives. But it would be a big embarrassment to the Russians if more detailed information was revealed about this subject. celinski wrote: He also claims that the shooting technique used was apparently alien to the NKVD. The movie Katyn shows how a skilled NKVD murder executes prisoners of war. The executioners hand is not even trembling because of all that experience in murdering people.

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: Dice Feb 6, 08, 11:28 / #
ConstantineK wrote: Suppose those was Russian speaking Germans. I know Russians they couldn't commit such atrocious deed. You live in a Lah-Lah Land my friend. Wake up and smell the coffee will you? ConstantineK wrote: Stalin was a Hero, am I right? Is this what they teach you in Russia now? One of the biggest mass murderers known to mankind is your "hero"?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 6, 08, 11:51 / #
ConstantineK wrote: It's a nice country WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TE FRESH AIR HERE BUT THE GULAGS. ConstantineK wrote: But may be he is right? Just imagine what would be with polish world view if it would be rightful supposition? HE'S NOT RIGHT.. STALIN WAS A MURDERER AND HE ORDERED THESE EXECUTIONS.

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Feb 6, 08, 12:02 / #
celinski wrote: What is this in US? I believe that European DVDs are different then ours here. I may be wrong, but i believe it's a different system, similarly to how it used to be with the VHS tapes.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Feb 6, 08, 12:09 / #
plk123 wrote: i say we attack russia too.. they ain't playing by our rules. let's roll. :D god dang - i say that if your country dont speak english then you aint one of us... lets get'em lads... geronimo...!!!

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Feb 6, 08, 12:33 / #
You do not understand ConstantineK's humour.Actually the polish officers in Katyn commited mass suicide,is this not right ConstantineK?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Feb 6, 08, 12:58 / #
southern wrote: ConstantineK's humour. I don't see any of this as funny.

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 6, 08, 13:09 / #
Constantine, You are a despicable human being, and do not even show you're dirty face in this thread ever again and deny that the Russians are to blame. Its because of people like you that Poland has yet to receive a formal apology and compensation for the dead, not that they can ever be compensated. ConstantineK wrote: They might be mistaken, because they are humans. Suppose those was Russian speaking Germans. I know Russians they couldn't commit such atrocious deed. Do not even say things like this, because all the poor souls, including a great uncle of mine that was executed at Starobelsk, are turning over in their graves. Many men escaped from death, and have told numerous stories with incriminating evidence that this was indeed the NKVD Soviets. And the your final sentence is laughable. "I know Russians, they couldn't commit such atrocious deed." Does this even warrant a response on anyones behalf? For all I know, you are 20 years old, and you were taught entirely different material at school. For that reason, I can forgive you for you are naiive. For some reference perhaps, look up the Ukrainian famine, and what Stalin did to those poor people. They aren't capable of atrocious deeds, right?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Feb 6, 08, 13:20 / #
ConstantineK wrote: But may be he is right? Just imagine what would be with polish world view if it would be rightful supposition? This is humorous.He ma\eans that you place too much emphasis on Katyn,so any change about history of this will change the Poles' attitude as a whole. ConstantineK wrote: They might be mistaken, because they are humans. Suppose those was Russian speaking Germans. I know Russians they couldn't commit such atrocious deed. This means,let's forgive them,let's say they were Germans.What would be the difference?Admit the Russians did not do it and bury the subject. ConstantineK wrote: What about Siberia It's a nice country He makes humorous comment.After all Siberia was not bad.Let's say Poles made an excursion.This fate waits everyone opposing soviet rule. ConstantineK wrote: When? I supposed that we had rached a consensus, that Stalin was a Hero, am I right? This is ironic.He tells you you accused Russians of liking Stalin,of thinking him as a hero.How come you now to say they also suffered by him? You do not catch ContsantineK's subtle sense of humour.

paczkaThreads: 1 Posts: 113 Joined: Dec 28, 07	Feb 6, 08, 13:31 / #
Filios1 wrote: For some reference perhaps, look up the Ukrainian famine, and what Stalin did to those poor people. They aren't capable of atrocious deeds, right? People of Kazahstan and Siberia were dying as well. Yushchenko is just trying to blame everyone just to get people's attention off his gas deals.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Feb 6, 08, 13:37 / #
paczka wrote: just to get people's attention off his gas deals. What gas deals has he made?Do you mean he got bribed?Or that the price for gas has risen for Ukraine?

paczkaThreads: 1 Posts: 113 Joined: Dec 28, 07	Feb 6, 08, 13:46 / #
southern wrote: What gas deals has he made?Do you mean he got bribed?Or that the price for gas has risen for Ukraine? I am not quite sure what is going on, but I heard some people saying that the real Golodomor started after he became the President. Oh, and gas prices as well.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Feb 6, 08, 13:48 / #
paczka wrote: that the real Golodomor started Golodomor?

paczkaThreads: 1 Posts: 113 Joined: Dec 28, 07	Feb 6, 08, 13:59 / #
southern wrote: Golodomor? Thats what they call the great famine isnt it?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Feb 6, 08, 14:59 / #
paczka wrote: Thats what they call the great famine isnt it? Yes,it makes sense.Golodin=hungry.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Feb 6, 08, 15:05 / #
The Russians need to 'step up to the plate' and admit & apologize to the Poles for there brutal butchery of the Polish officers at Katyn...here are two articles about Katyn that throw some light on the events: http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs985b.html http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/wwii/spe cial.studies/katyn.massacre/katynlrc.txt

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 6, 08, 15:19 / #
celinski wrote: I don't see any of this as funny. me neither.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 6, 08, 16:24 / #
Nazis responsible for Katyn massacre, says Russian daily polskieradio.pl/thenews/foreign-affairs/?id=75133 You see, when i told you that Russians are idiots sometimes, you criticized me. Now, i want that you apologize to me ConstantineK wrote: But may be he is right? i`m not convinced I suggest to my Polish and Russian brothers and sisters that you start to talk seriously. It is in your best interests. And, in Serbian interest of course. In interest of all Slavs before we all extinct. Thank you in advance for your responsibility for historic momentum It would help that you organize some public discussions (something like direct public satellite link between Poland and Russia) so, that historic experts and ordinary people can participate in discussions (and that other Slavs can see you). If you both are democratic and independent states you would do that. If you both are just little players then you won`t organize such a discussion. celinski wrote: southern wrote: ConstantineK's humour. I don't see any of this as funny. </div> no its not funny, you are right. We speak about 20.000 Polish lives which were lost for Poland and for Slavdom, for their families. 20.000 eyes without future. We speak about enormous tragedy and i can hardly found words to describe my feelings my condolences to Poles, my deepest condolences

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Feb 6, 08, 16:36 / #
Crow wrote: You see, when i told you that Russians are idiots sometimes, you criticized me. Now, i want that you apologize to me what? aren't you the one that just loves that serbia "works" closely with moscow? Crow wrote: It would help that you organize some public discussions there is really nothing to discuss.. PL is waiting for an appology from the russians and that is all.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 6, 08, 16:55 / #
plk123 wrote: what? aren't you the one that just loves that serbia "works" closely with moscow? you aren`t serious Serbian position on Russians and Poles can only serve to interests (to relax situation, to push you in good dirrection) of Poland and Russia. Last what any of you need is blind support or false love. Last what you need is more hate! You both need brotherly love and brotherly criticism. Serbs would give you that Don`t expect that Serbs chose between Poland and Russia. We chooses already. We chooses Slavia! Shame you! Shame both of you- Russians and Poles! Don`t worry. Serbian extinction is on the way. Then, we would shut up and you both won`t need to feel shame in front of us, because of your treachery!

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 6, 08, 16:57 / #
crow, eff the russians.. we don't need their kind of love.. look at the title of this thread.. they committed the crimes but now want to blame everybody but themselves. i hope we'll hear the appologies but i doubt it iwll ever happen..

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK Feb 7, 08, 02:58 / #
Filios1 wrote: You are a despicable human being, and do not even show you're dirty face in this thread ever again and deny that the Russians are to blame. Nevertheless you vouchsafed me your answer! This fact is telling me that I am not so wretched man....Thank you! plk123 wrote: i hope we'll hear the appologies but i doubt it iwll ever happen.. Sure!!! IMHO it will be right if all Russian would begin all their conversation and speaches with official apologies toward Poles! It will be perfect inverted copy of roman Cato, he always had finished his speaches as "...but, I suppose that Carthago must be destroied", but in Russian case it will be sounded as "We present our apologies to Poles, but...." Correct me if I ain't right, Mr.Yeltsin already acknowledged the guilt, something more?

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