Stolen heritage of Kievian Rus'.

JuliePotocka:

Pass the popcorn.
None of this is ever going to rebuild the Lithuania-Polish Commonwealth, EVER. Of course, I would wish to see it, and parts of the Ukraine brought back in.
But it isn't going to happen; countries that have become ripped asunder, can't be brought back together.
Just ask Saddam Hussein about that one, eh?

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 28, 08, 06:49 / #
Russian-Polish relationship was always heavily influenced by myths created for political reasons by Kremlin's spin doctors. One of them was "Russia liberating and collecting Russian lands as a successor of Kievian Rus"!" Sounds good, he ? A nice try to justify Russian territorial claims against Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and to rob fantastic heritage of Kievian Rus' at the same time. Kievan Rus was a completely different state from Muscova and later Russia. Legacy of the Russian statehood ought to be derived from the times of the Golden Horde whose successor was Muscovite Russia. Kievian Rus' historically created by "Swedish" Vikings was linked to the rich Bysantyne tradition. The only common tradition somehow connecting both political creations was Orthodoxy and language to some extend. But does it give Russia any rights to Ukraine ? Don't get me wrong. Ukraine or Belarus' are neither Polish nor Russian. They are Ukrainian and Belorussian but... Given my true sympathy and acceptance of their independence both countries are much closer to the Western Slavs than to Russians.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Apr 28, 08, 06:59 / #
Borrka: The only common tradition somehow connecting both political creations was Orthodoxy and language to some extend. Only Orthodoxy and language?Ask ConstantineK to give you some more complete information on that. Borrka: both countries are much closer to the Western Slavs than to Russians. What do you mean both countries are...?You mean that the inhabitants of these countries are closer or sth else?Have you asked for example Ukrainians from Dnipropetrovsk or Symferopol or Belarussians from Minsk who they feel closer related to?

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 28, 08, 07:19 / #
Southern: More information from Constantine ? I'm not keen on chauvinistic propaganda. Referring to your second question: I mean cultural roots, many links to European tradition, common European history etc and not feelings of some "sovoks". Young generation is what really counts. Even your example of Dnepropetrovsk is rather misleading. It's a "Belgian" city LOL. For sure not Russian.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Apr 28, 08, 07:24 / #
Borrka: It's a "Belgian" city Belgian city?I noticed that everyone there spoke russian and it was closed to foreigners till 1991.I did not hear anyone speaking french or flamandic. Borrka: Young generation is what really counts. Yes,I also talk about young generation.Ask young generation in Crimea what they think about Bandera.

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 28, 08, 07:33 / #
I mean Dnepropetrovsk was built by Belgian contractors lol. As for Crimea and feelings of people there: you are missing the point. Being anti UNA/UNSO, being even pro-Russian does not mean Kievian Rus' makes a part of Russian tradition.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Apr 28, 08, 08:43 / #
Well, I think that Russia is true and sole heir of Kievan Rus and really I dont care about insinuations which is still maturing in the polish "inteligentia".

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 28, 08, 08:57 / #
Actually, my Friend, Poles couldn't care less about Kievian Rus. However it's still a hot issue for Russians and Ukes LOL. Deep in your hearts you know your are the true successors of Khan. Remember the saying: Scrape a Russian and you will find a Tatar" LOL.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Apr 28, 08, 09:06 / #
Borrka: Deep in your hearts you know your are the true successors of Khan. Remember the saying: Scrape a Russian and you will find a Tatar" LOL. And what? You think that a nationality is determined by the blood? IMHO, not at all! Scrape the Pole and you will see alot of interesting facts, I assure you. Moreover, I can please you saying that I actually have some Tartar roots. But in the same time I am 100 per cent pure Russian!

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 28, 08, 09:09 / #
Wrong, my friend. You may be 100% Rosiyanin only.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Apr 28, 08, 09:14 / #
Borrka: Wrong, my friend. You may be 100% Rosiyanin only. You are wrong in spelling. Rossiyanin just a civilian meaning but Russian is a nationality

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Apr 28, 08, 11:51 / #
Every family (nation in our case) has its black sheep...

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Edited by: osiol Apr 28, 08, 12:12 / #
Caesar - head of hair (Latin) Julius Caesar - I imagine he had quite a coiffure. Caesar (in various different forms) - title bestowed upon various princes, especially in the east after the fall of the Byzantine Empire Tsar / Czar, etc - The East Slavic / Russian form of this name / title. It was one of those Russian myths that helped to make them think they were great - a kind of third and final stage in a historical trinity, Rome - Byzantium - Moscow. Countries build themselves not only on realirty, but on myths, from which they form or try to form their reality. The title Kaiser is another offspring of the name Caesar. I could also mention Caesar salad, caesarian section, drugs tsar and Zsa Zsa Gabor, but I won't.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Apr 28, 08, 12:14 / #
ConstantineK: Scrape the Pole Go scrap yourself...

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Apr 28, 08, 23:59 / #
Sasha: Today, 11:51 Report #12 Every family (nation in our case) has its black sheep... Is it about Chukchas?

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 28, 08, 09:17 / #
My spelling is OK. Being part Tatar you are Rossiyanin. Like Russian Chukcha.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Apr 29, 08, 07:21 / #
ConstantineK: Is it about Chukchas? Chukhas are ok. Here it's about Borrkas. But you actually don't have to follow him.

JuliePotockaThreads: 6 Posts: 208 Joined: Nov 19, 07	Apr 29, 08, 13:48 / #
Pass the popcorn. None of this is ever going to rebuild the Lithuania-Polish Commonwealth, EVER. Of course, I would wish to see it, and parts of the Ukraine brought back in. But it isn't going to happen; countries that have become ripped asunder, can't be brought back together. Just ask Saddam Hussein about that one, eh?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Apr 29, 08, 14:05 / #
JuliePotocka: Just ask Saddam Hussein about that one Another Kiev Rus I guess.

JuliePotockaThreads: 6 Posts: 208 Joined: Nov 19, 07	Edited by: JuliePotocka Apr 29, 08, 16:31 / #
I was joking, but it appears that feature button fails often on here, along with my sarcasm. I said what I really meant, though - but alas the great Lithuana-Polish Commonwealth shan't ever rise again (unless lots of people want it, not just moi).

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	May 3, 08, 03:46 / #
And the same goes for the prison of the nations, so called Russian Empire.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski May 3, 08, 12:58 / #
JuliePotocka: Pass the popcorn. None of this is ever going to rebuild the Lithuania-Polish Commonwealth, EVER. Of course, I would wish to see it, and parts of the Ukraine brought back in. But it isn't going to happen; countries that have become ripped asunder, can't be brought back together. Just ask Saddam Hussein about that one, eh? A good post...there will be no new Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the forseeable future...it is time to move forward...the Rus do have a long history on the area of Kiev, and for them to want to clarify and bring to light this history is understandable...the Khazar Jews also have a long history in Kiev...the main problem for the Russians in breaking up the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was how to deal with the large Jewish population in this area, which under the Czars became known as the Pale of Settlement...the Russians feared/were unable to integrate this population into 'Greater Russia' and the end result of this difficult situation was the Bolshevik revolution.

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	May 5, 08, 04:32 / #
A very interesting contribution to this subject: http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=520&id=643367