Tamihere 'sick' of Holocaust

Foreigner4:

while some of you aren't moving on, please don't take offense if some of us choose to move on and in doing so, acknowledge history yet realize we can't personalize events that never happened to us so while we may seem unmoved or callous to you, the truth is that some of us are simply being honest.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 30, 08, 11:07 / #
Now this guy is going out on a limb. Wonder if he'll get arrested? Labour MP John Tamihere says he is "sick and tired of hearing how many Jews got gassed". The comments - branded yesterday by the Jewish Council as "sickening" and "deeply shocking for all Jews" - were made in the same interview in which Mr Tamihere referred to Cabinet minister Chris Carter as a "tosser" and "queer" and Cabinet minister Steve Maharey as "smarmy". They were released yesterday by Investigate magazine editor Ian Wishart after a spat with Mr Tamihere about the recording of the interview. Mr Tamihere responds: "The Weisenthal Institute is the same. I'm sick and tired of hearing how many Jews got gassed, not because I'm not revolted by it - I am - or I'm not violated by it - I am - but because I already know that. "How many times do I have to be told and made to feel guilty?" http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10119675

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Oct 30, 08, 11:12 / #
celinski: Now this guy is going out on a limb. Wonder if he'll get arrested? For what ?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 30, 08, 11:14 / #
Wroclaw: For what ? Saying something negitive about the Holocaust.

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Oct 30, 08, 11:17 / #
celinski: Saying something negitive about the Holocaust. *negative Clever piece of fishing by the way, although you let yourself down with the above remark.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 30, 08, 11:18 / #
IronsE11: although you let yourself down with the above remark. meaning?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw Oct 30, 08, 11:32 / #
not because I'm not revolted by it - I am - or I'm not violated by it - I am - but because I already know that. "How many times do I have to be told and made to feel guilty?" I really don't have a problem with his comments. He acknowledges that the Holocaust took place, he didn't like what happened and he doesn't need reminding of it. And as someone who grew up watching programmes like 'All our Yesterdays' in the 60's and then 'The World at War' in the 70's.... I don't need reminding either. In fact there are millions who don't need reminding. There are however youngsters who need to learn about it and remember what they have learnt. A constant reminder is nagging...when this happens people switch off. On November 11... I will be thinking of all war dead. Soldiers and civilians alike.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 30, 08, 11:39 / #
Wroclaw: I will be thinking of all war dead Nov. 2nd candles are going to be lighting up not just Poland but USA.

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Oct 30, 08, 11:57 / #
celinski: meaning? When you want to start a thread merely to provoke a response, you shouldn't make it quite so obvious. I was almost convinced until that particular remark. HTH.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 30, 08, 12:32 / #
IronsE11: thread merely to provoke a response Why else would a thread be started?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Oct 30, 08, 21:24 / #
kinda agree with him too. wroclaw said it all.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Edited by: Marek Oct 31, 08, 10:07 / #
Many years ago when I was in Germany, an older woman from Munich asked me point blank "Why do you people always remind us about the Holocaust?", to which I angrily retorted "Because you people will never let us forget!!!" For every 'stray' swastica daubed on the side of a building, for every reckless remark about 'Who gives a @%#* etc.. about the Jews.......', such as the above comment attributed to that Parlamentarian, callous comment ad infinitum..., the more spade work it seems still is necessary in order to finally enlighten all but the most recalcitrant and irreconcilable denies. If indeed the lessons from the past have been learned, then they have been heedlessly ignored, from Auschwitz to Darfour and back. I for one am bloody sick and tired of those who are sick of hearing about the Holocaust! The motto of this thread? Enough is always too little. Only the survivors themselves, Jew or gentile, dare express the right that it's time to move on.

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Oct 31, 08, 10:46 / #
most of the 'survivors' are dead.. time to move on.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Oct 31, 08, 11:02 / #
....not so fast there, fella! Not until the last dance is played, not until the fat lady sings, not until the last breath is wheezed. Not on your sweet life.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Oct 31, 08, 11:13 / #
Amen, Irons!!

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Oct 31, 08, 11:05 / #
loco polaco: most of the 'survivors' are dead.. time to move on. I know a survivor personally, why should I move on? My grandfathers fought in WW2, both are dead however I'm not going to 'move on'. Wroclaw: On November 11... I will be thinking of all war dead. Soldiers and civilians alike. As will I, always and forever.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,971 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Oct 31, 08, 11:26 / #
while some of you aren't moving on, please don't take offense if some of us choose to move on and in doing so, acknowledge history yet realize we can't personalize events that never happened to us so while we may seem unmoved or callous to you, the truth is that some of us are simply being honest.

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Oct 31, 08, 11:29 / #
Foreigner4: while some of you aren't moving on, please don't take offense if some of us choose to move on and in doing so, acknowledge history yet realize we can't personalize events that never happened to us so while we may seem unmoved or callous to you, the truth is that some of us are simply being honest. No offence taken. As long as the lessons of history are learnt...

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 31, 08, 12:46 / #
loco polaco: most of the 'survivors' are dead.. time to move on. This is not true and even if it was there are family that had to go on without loved ones. I find it very wrong that history cannot study and question the Holocaust without being labled anti anything. As far as moving forward, I feel we must learn from the past and respect the feeling as they respect others right to question. With the new freedom in Poland it is just now that the past can and should be re examined with Polish included this time.

dcb	Edited by: dcb Oct 31, 08, 12:53 / #
I am not sick of Holocaust, my grandfather has been priosner in concetration camp and he is still alive. Germans came to his house with list of Polish social workers (he was one of them) ... fortunately he survived. Why you cry so much about Soviet Guags ! ? !

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,236 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Oct 31, 08, 13:11 / #
You know the greatest thing that we can do this weekend is to remember the people that gave us the freedom that we have today, we can blame, we can accuse, we can argue...however, we live in a world were we have the right to do all of these things and we can have no understanding of the suffering that they went through to give us this right. I myself with my wife are going to remember this weekend the wonderful woman I met when I first came to Poland. She was a nurse for the secret army in the second world war and was captured by the German SS and tortured and then sent to Majdanek concentration camp, where she spent three years there. She died last year and we miss her dearly. Our petty arguments pale into significance according to their bravery.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: celinski Oct 31, 08, 13:18 / #
dcb: Why you cry so much about Soviet Guags ! ? ! This is where my family were sent Feb. 10, 1940. Four did not survive. Soviets were responsable for this and many crimes that have not been given there place in history books. My family had to come to the states as my grandfather was front line 1920 and would have been unwelcome in Soviet occupied Poland.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 31, 08, 15:14 / #
Interesting fact here in Germany is that lately people who thought to have "moved on" are re-discovering their interest in all things WWII. Movies, lots of books...from the german viewpoint this time...all bestseller. We don't talk so much about the holocaust anymore but about our own experiences...(Crabwalk, Gustloff, Dresden, Berlin, Firebrand, the flight, centrum for the expellees.. etc) Funny thing is some (foreigners mostly) call it revisionism and really don't like that. So "not moving on" seems to mean different things for different people! Germans are rather "moving back" it seems...:)

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 31, 08, 15:33 / #
Bratwurst Boy: re-discovering Some I am sure are just discovering. I understand Germany had crimes but I feel they paid the price for others as well.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Nov 1, 08, 01:06 / #