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Correct form of BYĆ. Please help!




ArcticPaul Activity: 40 / 233
Joined: 7 Apr 2008 ♂
  25 Apr 2008 /  #61
Wonderfully helpful, z_darius.
The pieces are starting to fall into place nicely.

I have just had my fifth lesson. We looked at nationalities and professions:

Lekarz.
On jest lekarzem.
Lekarka.
Ona jest lekarka (hooked A - Polish letters unavailable, as yet, on my keyboard).

Fryzjer/Fryzjerka (Male/Female nominative).
On jest fryzjerem. (He is a barber)
Ona jest fryzjerka. (She is a hairdresser)

Any tips, advice or recommendations will be of enormous use to me.
Again, thank you for your guidance and support.
Dziekuje,
Paul.

benszymanski Activity: 8 / 465
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 ♂
  25 Apr 2008 /  #62
Is it really obscure ???


I learnt Polish (and am still learning) from zero. I agree with the consensus that introducing these old verb forms to a total beginner is just totally confusing.

I don't think it's helpful to teach someone archaic forms that aren't used or aren't going to be heard, when the student will still have to learn the modern forms anyway. At least not to a total beginner.

Also, it is a very alien concept to a native English speaker such as myself that there are mobile particles such as "m" and "ś" that can detach and join pronouns. I think that learning that is beyond total beginner level.

Krzysztof Activity: 2 / 978
Joined: 26 Jul 2007 ♂
  25 Apr 2008 /  #63
Polish letters unavailable, as yet, on my keyboard

just look what you see above the box when you're typing here:

B I -- "..." [hyperlink, image, YouTube symbols » Attach a file [?]
Ą ą Ć ć Ę ę Ł ł Ń ń Ó ó Ś ś Ź ź Ż ż <<<<< those can be useful for people without Polish keybords, just click on the correct letter and it appers in your massage to be posted

FoxxiGold Activity: 6 / 31
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 ♀
  2 May 2008 /  #64
Thread attached on merging:
HELP! What is BYĆ? Struggling to Self Teach ...

I will be embarrassed if I'm asking a really dumb question, but as I'm trying to teach myself with no Tutor and no Classroom environment then I'm having to prowl the forum to find hints and tips, and now I come across BYĆ. Is this an abbreviation for some sort of table to do with pronouns and verbs? Please can someone translate or give description of? thank you.

And how is this phonetically pronounced?

benszymanski Activity: 8 / 465
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 ♂
  2 May 2008 /  #65
no don't worry - "być" is just the verb "be" in the infinitive form, i.e. "to be".
Pretty much sounds like the English word "bitch"

ArcticPaul Activity: 40 / 233
Joined: 7 Apr 2008 ♂
  2 May 2008 /  #66
FoxxiGold:
301 Polish Verbs by Klara Janecki may be helpful,

BYĆ.(The verb 'to be')
These are the present tense forms you will use most as a starter (like myself).
Jest, Jestem, Jesteś, Jesteśmy, jesteście, są

You use the appropriate form in context to the meaning:
Ja jestem (I am)
Ty jesteś (you are)
on/ona/ono jest (he/she/it is)
my jesteśmy (we are)
wy jesteście (you/they are) wy=plural, no gender 'you'.
oni są (you/they are) oni=plural, masculine 'you'.
one są (you/they are) one=plural feminine 'you'.

Basically you must learn your pronouns (jestem, jest etc) and your forms of być, then practise 'fitting' them together.

Then you move on to using names to determine the correct form of być needed:
Jan jesteś....
Jan and Sylwia są....

benszymanski Activity: 8 / 465
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 ♂
  2 May 2008 /  #67
learn your pronouns (jestem, jest etc)


Just to be clear on terminology, pronouns are words such as ja, ty, wy, my (English I, you, we, etc..). Jestem, jesteś etc.. are the various conjugations of the verb.

ArcticPaul Activity: 40 / 233
Joined: 7 Apr 2008 ♂
  3 May 2008 /  #68
Sorry.
I should have said
'Learn your pronouns and the forms of być (jest, jestem, są) that fit correctly.

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #69
Merged: Help with polish grammar - byc on/ona?

In the following text- On jest chłopcem, Ona jest dziewczynką On jest mężczyzną and Ona jest kobietą why are the endings used like this and not chłopiec, dziewczynka, mężczyzna and kobieta? Not sure if this is the dative case, but if it is then it might explain it?

Also in what context would you use panu , pana and the female panią as opposed to pan, pani?

rsm109 Activity: - / 16
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #70
The Polish verb być "to be" takes the instrumental case, the suffix -ą for feminine gender nouns (and a few masculine gender ending in a), -em for masculine and neuter nouns and -ami for plurals of all genders.

You use "panu" (dative) if something's being given or done to the gentleman and "pana" if he's the object of a sentence (accusative) or you're talking about something belonging to him (genitive). I can never remember the declension of "pani" but I think "panią" is the accusative. (EDIT: it is, as well as the instrumental.)

Hope that helps. :-)

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #71

Hope that helps. :-)


This has been a great help,many thanks.

sausage Activity: 21 / 777
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #72

This has been a great help

Vincent, have you seen the book "Basic Polish: A Grammar and Workbook" by Dana Bielece. It's not cheap (per page) but it is pretty good... Bite-sized lessons and exercises.

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #73
No I haven't sausage...must look out for it online.

sausage Activity: 21 / 777
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #74
I can scan in and send you a couple of pages if you want...
Instrumental (narzędnik) is the easiest Polish case in terms of rules..

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #75

I can scan in and send you a couple of pages if you want


...yes can you do that please

rsm109 Activity: - / 16
Joined: 29 Oct 2008 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #76

Vincent, have you seen the book "Basic Polish: A Grammar and Workbook" by Dana Bielece. It's not cheap (per page) but it is pretty good... Bite-sized lessons and exercises.

If it's as good as her other Polish grammar book I'd second this recommendation.

Vincent, glad I could help. I know studying the declensions gave me a few headaches when I started learning Polish. Complicated but absolutely essential.

EDIT:
Instrumental (narzędnik) is the easiest Polish case in terms of rules..

Indeed. I don't think I could have summarised the suffixes for other cases quite as concisely.

sausage Activity: 21 / 777
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #77
ok, coming right up!

Aramroth   30 Oct 2008 /  #78
Mianownik / Nominative (kto? co? | who? what?): dziewczynka
Dopełniacz / Genitive (kogo? czego? | whom? what?): dziewczynki
Celownik / Dative (komu? czemu? | to whom? to what?): dziewczynce
Biernik / Accusative (kogo? co? | whom? what?): dziewczynkę
Narzędnik / Instrumental (z kim? z czym? | with whom? with what?): z dziewczynką
Miejscownik / Locative (o kim? o czym? | about whom? about what?): o dziewczynce
Wołacz / Vocative: dziewczynko!

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  30 Oct 2008 /  #79

Aramroth [Guest]



thanks for these details about each case, much appreciated.

Michal2 Activity: - / 78
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 ♂
  3 Nov 2008 /  #80

On jest chłopcem, O

On jest chłopakiem.

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  3 Nov 2008 /  #81
Is the first one defiantly wrong Michal ? I got it from a book

benszymanski Activity: 8 / 465
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 ♂
  3 Nov 2008 /  #82

On jest chłopakiem


That means something else. Chłopak (guy/boyfriend) and chłopiec (boy) are two different words.

NuMbeROnEe Activity: 3 / 3
Joined: 9 Aug 2008 ♂
  10 Nov 2008 /  #83
Merged: help with the verb bedą

please review my work and see if i have any mistakes or if im missing any words, thanks.

The Future (przyszłości)

My sister (siostra) Jillian, she will be (będzie) a nurse (pielęgniarka).
My brother (brat) Ryan, he will be (będzie) a policeman (policjant).
My brother (brat) Tye, he will be (będzie) a manager (kierownik) in Atlantic City.
My girlfriend (moja dziewczyna) Aryn, she will be (będzie) a lawyer (prawniczka).
My friend (?) Nick, he will be (będzie) a cook (kuchark).
My girlfriend (moja dziewczyna) Stacy, she will be (będzie) a teacher (nauczycielka).

thanks

Michal2 Activity: - / 78
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 ♂
  10 Nov 2008 /  #84
The will be oni będą-men or a mixed grouping
one będą-females only, will be
Ty będziesz-you (my friend) will be
My będziemy-we will be
Wy będziecie-you will be

Krzysztof Activity: 2 / 978
Joined: 26 Jul 2007 ♂
  10 Nov 2008 /  #85
1/ The Future (przyszłość = things to come, czas przyszły = in a grammatical sense, future tense)
2/ I'm not sure if you skipped "my" in Polish translations on purpose or by accident, so I'll add it in case you had any doubts.
3/ The main mistake you made is the use of the nominative case instead of the instrumental.
4/ Instead of "będzie" you can also use the verb "zostać" (3rd person, singular, future tense = "zostanie").

My sister (Moja siostra) Jillian, she will be (będzie) a nurse (pielęgniarką).
My brother (Mój brat) Ryan, he will be (będzie) a policeman (policjantem).
My brother (Mój brat) Tye, he will be (będzie) a manager (kierownikiem) in Atlantic City.
My girlfriend (Moja dziewczyna) Aryn, she will be (będzie) a lawyer (prawniczką).
My friend (Mój przyjaciel) Nick, he will be (będzie) a cook (kucharzem **).
My girlfriend (Moja dziewczyna) Stacy, she will be (będzie) a teacher (nauczycielką).

** a cook = kucharka (female), kucharz (male)

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  11 Nov 2008 /  #86

The main mistake you made is the use of the nominative case instead of the instrumental



Is the instrumental case always used for future tense?

benszymanski Activity: 8 / 465
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 ♂
  11 Nov 2008 /  #87
No - the case has nothing to do with the tense. But normally in sentences talking about identity such as "Tommy is a Policeman" the occupation is in the instrumental not nominative.

But I am going to guess that to keep the exercise simple they used the nominative as that is the dictionary form.

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  11 Nov 2008 /  #88

But normally in sentences talking about identity such as "Tommy is a Policeman" the occupation is in the instrumental not nominative.


Thanks benszymanski, that is very helpful.

benszymanski Activity: 8 / 465
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 ♂
  11 Nov 2008 /  #89
this peculiarity of using the instrumental like this leads to the funny following case - if you say "Jestem samochodem" then that can mean either "I'm driving" (in the sense of don't give me any alcohol) or it can mean "I am a car" (if for example you were playing a role playing game or had some serious mental problems)...

Vincent Activity: 10 / 805
Joined: 9 Sep 2007 ♂
  11 Nov 2008 /  #90

"Jestem samochodem"



must remember not to say that, the next time I am talking to my psychiatrist :))

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