End of voice-over on foreign films in Poland?

End of voice-over on foreign films in Poland?

The English language, Ministers of Education and Science want voice-overs on foreign films shown by Polish TV channels replaced by subtitles.

The Education Minister Katarzyna Hall and Minister of Science, Professor Barbara Kudrycka are in favour of subtitling foreign films shown to Polish TV viewers, because such practice would “quickly and naturally lead into an improvement in the knowledge of foreign languages, particularly English,” among the Polish audience, writes Dziennik daily.

The experience of many European states clearly shows that the level of knowledge of English is the highest in those where films are shown with the original soundtrack and subtitled.

Dziennik quotes an American methodologist Renae Swain Curtis, who claims that subtitling films and television programmes - so-called total immersion - has the effect similar to that of living abroad and is one of the best methods to learn languages. For that very reason, in Curtis’ opinion, the number of people who can speak English in Slovenia and Croatia is much higher than in the Czech Republic or Slovakia.

Representatives of Polish TV channels are much less enthusiastic about a possible switch from the current practice of using voice-over to subtitling foreign broadcasts offered to the Polish TV audience due to the viewers preferences.

Polish TV viewers simply cannot be bothered to read the small print at the bottom of the screen and instead, they prefer to follow the action and listen to a speaker in the background.

“The Jan Suzin [the most popular voice-over speaker in Poland] syndrome is too strong and the Polish television market too unforgiving for us to begin experimenting”, Edward Miszczak from the private TVN channel has said as reported by Dziennik.

Last week the government was criticised for its plans to make English language classes uncompusory for seven year olds in the new syllabus starting in September. (mj)

andy bThreads: 7 Posts: 195 Joined: Nov 26, 07	Jul 30, 08, 09:21 / #
Below is an interesting article from polskieradio.pl/thenews It doesn't sounds like this change is going to happen any time soon, but I for one will be waiting for the day! Remove the lektor! End of voice-over on foreign films in Poland? The English language, Ministers of Education and Science want voice-overs on foreign films shown by Polish TV channels replaced by subtitles. The Education Minister Katarzyna Hall and Minister of Science, Professor Barbara Kudrycka are in favour of subtitling foreign films shown to Polish TV viewers, because such practice would “quickly and naturally lead into an improvement in the knowledge of foreign languages, particularly English,” among the Polish audience, writes Dziennik daily. The experience of many European states clearly shows that the level of knowledge of English is the highest in those where films are shown with the original soundtrack and subtitled. Dziennik quotes an American methodologist Renae Swain Curtis, who claims that subtitling films and television programmes - so-called total immersion - has the effect similar to that of living abroad and is one of the best methods to learn languages. For that very reason, in Curtis’ opinion, the number of people who can speak English in Slovenia and Croatia is much higher than in the Czech Republic or Slovakia. Representatives of Polish TV channels are much less enthusiastic about a possible switch from the current practice of using voice-over to subtitling foreign broadcasts offered to the Polish TV audience due to the viewers preferences. Polish TV viewers simply cannot be bothered to read the small print at the bottom of the screen and instead, they prefer to follow the action and listen to a speaker in the background. “The Jan Suzin [the most popular voice-over speaker in Poland] syndrome is too strong and the Polish television market too unforgiving for us to begin experimenting”, Edward Miszczak from the private TVN channel has said as reported by Dziennik. Last week the government was criticised for its plans to make English language classes uncompusory for seven year olds in the new syllabus starting in September. (mj)

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jul 30, 08, 09:29 / #
About time too

SwiteziankaThreads: - Posts: 525 Joined: Jun 17, 08	Jul 30, 08, 09:36 / #
I wish they put those subtitles. Translations in Polish TV are usually crappy and I'd rather be able to hear what the dialogues really are.

Wroclaw Boy	Jul 30, 08, 09:46 / #
Hoo Ray, that monotone dude really has to find another job.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Jul 30, 08, 09:47 / #
no mention of dubbing. If the quality of dubbing matched that of the Germans then that might be the way forward. I have found that students only watch films that they are interested in and for the most part don't use subtitles as a learning tool. Childrens programmes are dubbed. So it seems to me that 'Dziennik' are a little out of touch. Might it not also be true that the level of English is more to do with teaching style than how many films have subtitles.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,236 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Jul 30, 08, 09:48 / #
Then according to this then BBC Prime has got it all wrong by putting voice-overs over all of it's programs in Poland. Mind you it was crap anyway, with only a couple of programs worth watching.

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Jul 30, 08, 09:49 / #
BubbaWoo: About time too Hey Bubba I thought youd been called up for service in Afghanistan! either that or youve changed your screen name.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jul 30, 08, 09:51 / #
Been and gone mate - won the Georges cross - didnt you read about it?

Wroclaw Boy	Jul 30, 08, 09:57 / #
Dubbed Bruce Lee movies, classic.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Jul 30, 08, 10:03 / #
ukpolska: Then according to this then BBC Prime has got it all wrong by putting voice-overs over all of it's programs in Poland. I haven't been able to get BBC Prime for ages. But the channel did have a teletext option for subtitles (in more than one language). And even now I can choose the language on Canal + In other words. Digital technology makes all options possible. How many people are going to wait for a film on TV just so they can read subtitles ?

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Jul 30, 08, 11:15 / #
Switezianka: Translations in Polish TV are usually crappy On one episode of Two fat ladies, "Help we've been attacked by Gurkhas" Was traslated something like "attacked by ogorki". He he. Even I spotted that

JustysiaSThreads: 15 Posts: 2,869 Joined: Oct 14, 07 MEMBER	Jul 30, 08, 11:25 / #
I quite like the lektor guy, watching USA/UK films with a lektor really helped me learn English, cos i could still hear what the actors were saying in the background, and many of the words i learnt were not, erm, taught at school ;). i loved picking up on the mistakes or censure, once i heard a guy in a film say "fck u, u sonofabtch", but the lektor said "kij ci w oko" ROTFL... keep the lektor or put the subtitles at the bottom of the screen, i hate dubbing! dubbing is fine for cartoons (Shrek and Ice Age were absolutely brill), but not for movies. Thats what i think anyway.

Wroclaw Boy	Jul 30, 08, 11:35 / #
How did the old lektor handle "is there a sign ouside that says dead n1gga storage" Pulp Fiction. Just wondering.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Jul 30, 08, 12:09 / #
IME Polish people are kind of surprised that so many non-Poles find voice-overs .... not very aesthetically pleasing (enormous understatement). The interesting think about voice overs is that they completely ruin the movie for most native speakers of the language of the original, even if they understand Polish just fine. I don't mind voice overs on French movies (I don't know French) or even German and Spanish movies (both of which I do know to some extent) but I can't stand them with English language movies. And subtitling is no magic English teaching substitute (or necessarily even a good aide). Good subtitles (meaning a good translation) will often be some distance from the original and the more literal the subtitles are, chances are the worse (and more confusing) the translation will be. Also, subtitles rarely capture nuance or expressive use of language, the dialogue has to be abbreviated, often drastically (this happens with voice overs too for similar reasons). Interestingly, full dubbing actually allows for greater fidelity and expressiveness in translation as people hear faster than they read and the kinds of pauses that lektors need to set off dialogue by different characters don't have to be used. Finally, I wouldn't put too much faith in this. This is basically a non-issue that gets proposed every couple of years by some famous-person or politician(s) and it never gets anywhere (there was an initiative in Gazeta Wyborcza a few years ago that resulted in .... nothing as far as I could tell. Most Polish people want to hear movies and not read them and forced conversion to subtitles would probably just decrease tv viewership (undoing the English teaching that's supposed to be going on). At the place where I rent dvds the most common question I hear from other customers is "does it have a voice over?" (that's good!) or "do you have to read?" (that's bad!).

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,236 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Jul 30, 08, 10:20 / #
Wroclaw: I haven't been able to get BBC Prime for ages. But the channel did have a teletext option for subtitles (in more than one language). I still have it on cable and just checked your suggestion and there is no teletext at all. And to be honest regarding removing the voice-overs, I just cant see it happening.

Wroclaw Boy	Jul 30, 08, 10:35 / #
ukpolska: I still have it on cable and just checked your suggestion and there is no teletext at all. And to be honest regarding removing the voice-overs, I just cant see it happening. UKPolska I know you posted this before or similar, but can you tell me the best way to get BBC here on TV? I really want to watch the Olympics. Thanks in advance.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,236 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Jul 30, 08, 10:46 / #
Wroclaw Boy: UKPolska I know you posted this before or similar, but can you tell me the best way to get BBC here on TV? I really want to watch the Olympics. Slingbox is the best way and that is to set it up and then hook it up to the internet in the UK, and broadcast it over the internet. slingmedia.com/ The only problem with this is that it sucks up the bandwidth in the UK and some ISPs restrict their bandwidth. But I have it set up at my mothers house in the UK and it works a treat :) You can try justintv, and they might be broadcasting it from the BBC.

Wroclaw Boy	Jul 30, 08, 10:48 / #
ukpolska: You can try justintv, and they might be broadcasting it from the BBC. Id rather just pick up a satelite signal if possible. Im thinking I need a bigger dish

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,236 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Jul 30, 08, 10:52 / #
Try this, I know nothing about them but there are many services like this if you google it storesatellite.com/sky-tv-poland.php This might help as well LINK