Jewish & Israel News Congress to urge Poland to pay

Opus Dei is one of the most controversial movements within the Roman Catholic Church. While it is supported by various Popes and conservative Catholic leaders, many opponents allege it applies cult-like practices in recruitment and treatment of members. Others allege that Opus Dei has ultraconservative theology, practices misogyny, secrecy, and supports dictatorships.

They say that Opus Dei shows characteristic cult behavior such as:

Undue pressure to join. Vocational crises are staged; threats are issued: saying no to a calling leads to a life of misery.
Lack of informed consent on the part of the new recruits. They vaguely commit themselves to a certain "spirit of the Work."
Encouraging members to relinquish contact with their friends and families in favour of contacts within the group.
Controlling the environment of the member; loss of freedom of the member.
Threatening members when they try to leave. The strongest is the threat of condemnation. These threats are not necessarily physical, but psychological.
Making members focus on efforts in favor of the growth of the group. The most important job for an Opus Dei member is to attract other people to join the organization. The members' social lives, the circles that they frequent, and the friendships members form are always geared towards proselytism.
Requiring numerary members to perform what critics view as highly suspicious practices such as mortification of the flesh, involving the use of the cilice for two hours a day and the discipline [5]; its founder is frequently alleged by critics to have whipped himself until there was blood on the walls. On the bedside of a dying, pain-striken woman abandoned by her family, he consoled her with the words: "Blessed be pain. Loved be pain. Sanctified be pain. . . Glorified be pain!" These words are written in The Way, point 208, which for his critics implies a strange attitude towards pain.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: Administrator Jul 2, 08, 11:15 / #
Congress to urge Poland, Lithuania on claims Bipartisan resolutions in both houses of Congress would urge Eastern European nations to make progress on Holocaust restitution. "These historic resolutions are the first time that the U.S. Congress has cited the lack of Holocaust-era restitution progress in Poland and Lithuania, both of which are singled out in each resolution," said the Claims Conference, the clearinghouse for Holocaust-era claims, in a statement issued June 27. "None of the Polish governments since the fall of Communism have passed private property restitution legislation, making it the only country in the European Union without such laws." http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/109283.html Why wasn't this an issue under "communism"? Let's see Soviets took eastern Poland, paid for with Germany's property. Now Poland should compensate.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 11:28 / #
Poland has choice :) 1) stick to version that Germans nationalisated Polish Jews properties and Poles have nationalisted German :) in courts Poles can win but are going to listen about being collaborators nazis etc ;) what is untrue. 2) pay 20% commision for our american cusines whose ancestors have been siting in USA in 1940s and be not nazi :) Poland is last country who havent paid tribute :P what is more, there is proposal of only 20% in long term instalments when other countries have paid 100% + interests. Polish politicians have choice.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 2, 08, 11:42 / #
ski: Poland is last country who havent paid tribute There was no Poland, it was taken over by communism. If this is the case maybe Poland should be able to charge rent to the Russian that are saying they should not take the bad with the good. Or maybe they should give eastern Poland back.

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jul 2, 08, 11:45 / #
celinski: There was no Poland Thats the best cop out clause you could ever hope for

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jul 2, 08, 11:46 / #
Nothing new... Jews have always been ripping off Goys...

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 11:48 / #
celinski: There was no Poland, it was taken over by communism. If this is the case maybe Poland should be able to charge rent to the Russian that are saying they should not take the bad with the good. Or maybe they should give eastern Poland back. Who cares about Poles in eastern Poland. Who cares about Polish vicitmes in WWII. Who cares about Palestinians :) Who cares about truth. Money are on table :) I am Polish Jew and I have my propety, I know how it was :) but you know money are money :) as to Lithuania http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411419/1854249 The United States is talking with Lithuania about possibly installing part of a planned missile shield there if negotiations with Poland fail, Poland's negotiator said, but Washington said only "general conversations" with the Lithuanians had taken place. at the end of negotiations everybody use different arguments. USA is servant so they use your (USA) country as tool in negotiations. :) Grzegorz_: Nothing new... Jews have always been ripping off Goys... From the other hand 20% isn't 120% like in other countries. Poland's legal situation is different.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 2, 08, 12:00 / #
ski: From the other hand 20% isn't 120% Many have been paid 100% by Poland already. Grzegorz_: Goys... Sorry to be ignorant but whats a Goys?

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 12:41 / #
celinski: Many have been paid 100% by Poland already. 20% in long term instalments with enclosure that all money have to be reinvested in Poland isn't bad proposal. Hungarians because they had different stance in WW2 had to pay +100% and all money transfered to USA and Israel. What is more, additionaly Americans will pay bigger financial support for Poland in case of shiled.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 2, 08, 13:59 / #
ski: 2) pay 20% commision for our american cusines whose ancestors have been siting in USA in 1940s and be not nazi :) Since 1951, not sitting but trying to fit in. After fighting for a free Poland and in the end being shafted. Note: In 1951 USA did not give Polish a free ride, we had to prove we had a job prior to going and could support our family. Many went from being home owners and on the road to retierment, to broke, no land, home and starting over in countries that did not speak Polish. With medical issues from fighting for a free Poland. Take all this into account, no, we were not sitting in the USA.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 14:13 / #
I have been talking about my American brothers in faith celisnki, not yours roman catholic Poles :)))

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Jul 2, 08, 14:34 / #
joepilsudski: This resolution was passed by the Jew bought and paid for US Congress...it has no binding effect in Easter Europe...Poland should rsist all pressure from Jewish extortionists to steal it's money...Anyway, the Jews are making good zloty in Poland through real-estate speculation, investment and media...Israel deserves absolutely nothing from ANY COUNTRY in the world...they have already stolen enough to fill a thousand banks. Joe I am Jew :) what do you think about me ?

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Jul 2, 08, 16:51 / #
ski: Joe I am Jew :) what do you think about me ? I know nothing about you personally, but from the gist of your post, I knew that you supported this measure...Jews cheapen the memory of their dead during WWII by constantly trying to wheedle money...that's it in a nutshell...to me, both WWI & WWII, not to mention the Bolshevik revolution, were Holocausts...millions of all ethnic persuasions were murdered by the minions of Satan...also, Poles, Russians, Ukranians, Germans, Latvians, Lithuanians & Jews lost properties due to the activity of war criminals and profiteers...but, for some reason, the Jews continue with 'demands'...this is a big cause of contemporary 'anti-semitism'...by the way, I have many Jewish friends who would be embarrased by such 'demands', and also know that the only profit from this goes to gangsters and the state of Israel.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 2, 08, 16:52 / #
In a nutshell, spot on!!

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Jul 2, 08, 17:01 / #
ski: Do I measure all Catholics with one measure. I am not going to mention some American protestants. I do measure people with one measure...love of one's neighbor & honesty...I don't like the Holocaust extortion racket and think it demeans Jews and makes them a target for more suspicion...and notice: it is rich & gangster Jews who profit, not the ordinary Jewish person...Shalom, Ski!

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Jul 2, 08, 14:31 / #
ski: Poland is last country who havent paid tribute :P what is more, there is proposal of only 20% in long term instalments when other countries have paid 100% + interests. Polish politicians have choice. This resolution was passed by the Jew bought and paid for US Congress...it has no binding effect in Easter Europe...Poland should rsist all pressure from Jewish extortionists to steal it's money...Anyway, the Jews are making good zloty in Poland through real-estate speculation, investment and media...Israel deserves absolutely nothing from ANY COUNTRY in the world...they have already stolen enough to fill a thousand banks.

Andrew78Threads: 1 Posts: 138 Joined: Jun 1, 08	Jul 2, 08, 14:47 / #
Bravo joe

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 16:56 / #
There are different Jews, Poles, Catholics whatever. read it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_Opus_Dei Opus Dei is one of the most controversial movements within the Roman Catholic Church. While it is supported by various Popes and conservative Catholic leaders, many opponents allege it applies cult-like practices in recruitment and treatment of members. Others allege that Opus Dei has ultraconservative theology, practices misogyny, secrecy, and supports dictatorships. They say that Opus Dei shows characteristic cult behavior such as: Undue pressure to join. Vocational crises are staged; threats are issued: saying no to a calling leads to a life of misery. Lack of informed consent on the part of the new recruits. They vaguely commit themselves to a certain "spirit of the Work." Encouraging members to relinquish contact with their friends and families in favour of contacts within the group. Controlling the environment of the member; loss of freedom of the member. Threatening members when they try to leave. The strongest is the threat of condemnation. These threats are not necessarily physical, but psychological. Making members focus on efforts in favor of the growth of the group. The most important job for an Opus Dei member is to attract other people to join the organization. The members' social lives, the circles that they frequent, and the friendships members form are always geared towards proselytism. Requiring numerary members to perform what critics view as highly suspicious practices such as mortification of the flesh, involving the use of the cilice for two hours a day and the discipline [5]; its founder is frequently alleged by critics to have whipped himself until there was blood on the walls. On the bedside of a dying, pain-striken woman abandoned by her family, he consoled her with the words: "Blessed be pain. Loved be pain. Sanctified be pain. . . Glorified be pain!" These words are written in The Way, point 208, which for his critics implies a strange attitude towards pain. Do I measure all Catholics with one measure? I am not going to mention some American protestants. Just read this crazy Scottish immigrant talking about Jews on this forum.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 17:03 / #
joepilsudski: I do measure people with one measure...love of one's neighbor & honesty...I don't like the Holocaust extortion racket and think it demeans Jews and makes them a target for more suspicion...and notice: it is rich & gangster Jews who profit, not the ordinary Jewish person. I have seen your crazy posts abut Poland's history. I think you shold visit Poland talk to somebody who remembers war. Ask about concentration camps etc. Are Jews organised ? Yes Jews are organised but not to this degree. I live in Poland and I like it. This forum is original and interesting place :)

Wahldo	Jul 2, 08, 17:59 / #
ski: This forum is original and interesting place :) .. this is the understatement of the month.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,371 Joined: May 30, 08	Jul 2, 08, 18:33 / #
Krakow`s Jewish district New Square before the war and today Houses before the war and today

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 2, 08, 18:58 / #
I'm worried that Poland is going to pay this 20% in small long term intstal... (the best result in europe ;) )

cygThreads: 8 Posts: 153 Joined: Oct 31, 07	Jul 3, 08, 03:36 / #
The 15-20 percent solution seems the most reasonable one to me. Here's why: 1. Many of the properties taken from former owners were rebuilt after the war using public funds. 2. Even those that weren't rebuilt were maintained since the war using public funds. 3. The argument that someone (the state, etc.) profited from using the property for 50 years is not very good, as under communism the profits, if there were any at all, were tiny compared to today's value. 4. In many cases restitution in kind would disrupt the functioning of valuable public institutions - hospitals, schools, etc. 5. Since it's impossible to give everything back in kind, it would only be fair to have uniform principles for all former property owners.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Jul 3, 08, 06:11 / #
ski: From the other hand 20% Which 20% ? Many Jews have already got back all their property - these are at least a few thousand cases and the people, who could prove their rights in courts. The whole thing (you are one of the chosen, so probably know that well) is to pay tens of billions to "Jewish NGOs" ("obviously" to provide helath care for "survivors"... until 2060 etc.) from America and Israel run by people, who don't have anything to do with WW2. In other words that's simply a scam. celinski: Sorry to be ignorant but whats a Goys? Goys are non-Jews. Read the Talmud and you will learn how Jews are taught to treat Goys. BTW The funniest thing is that all the oy vey comes mostly from the people living in countries, which were literally built on the stolen land.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 3, 08, 07:41 / #
cyg: Since it's impossible to give everything back in kind, it would only be fair to have uniform principles for all former property owners. Why is this impossible? In eastern Poland it would be rather simple, ask the residents residing on the property's if they want to purchase. If they do, have them put this money toward paying back the families with claims. It's a win/win as I am sure the ones living in the homes would like to make it legal and finally ownership would not be questioned. Grzegorz_: Goys are non-Jews Thanks, thats what I thought. I also wish the Jewish with all the voice's would take a stand on Russia taking responsability for the property they took and paid for with German property. It seems they are scared to go to the real cause.

americanpoleThreads: 5 Posts: 9 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Edited by: americanpole Jul 3, 08, 09:35 / #
I think restitution is a good idea. Poland should pay Israel, right after Israel makes a full restitution to the Palestinians.

miranda	Jul 3, 08, 09:42 / #
americanpole: right after Israel makes a full restitution to the Palestinians. good point.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 3, 08, 09:51 / #
americanpole: Poland should pay Israel Soviets are the ones that acted as Poland was "occupied". I think they are going after the ones that had no choice, otherwise Lvov would still be in Poland.

cygThreads: 8 Posts: 153 Joined: Oct 31, 07	Edited by: cyg Jul 3, 08, 11:19 / #
celinski: Why is this impossible? Mainly because some of the property has been razed and has had other things built on it, and because some of it has been bought in good faith by new owners and can't legally be taken from them now.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 3, 08, 12:45 / #
cyg: bought in good faith by new owners and can't legally be taken from them now. If it was bought in good faith there would be a bill of sale from the owner, if not, they bought without a title search. This would show who really owned the property. You would think the ones living on the property's know and would love to finally have an opportunity to own them in a legal manner. This way they could pass them down in the family vs. always waiting to have to answer for who own's what?

cygThreads: 8 Posts: 153 Joined: Oct 31, 07	Jul 3, 08, 14:20 / #
Many records were destroyed during the war, and a title search may not show anything worrying. That counts as "good faith" in the legal sense. Then there are people who bought individual apartments in larger buildings, and now those can't be returned whole to their former owners, either. The whole thing is far from simple.