Lavrov Visit: Warsaw Bracing Itself for a Firm Talk

Crow:

well, Russia has historical opportunity to do something good for Poland and for Slavic West, to do more for Poles then false polish friends France, Britain and USA can do

Crow:

Russia should provide manuverable space to Poland so that Poland can take neutral stance on current military alliances

Crow:

have closer ties with Ukraine, Czeska, Slovakia and Serbia. Polish-Hungarian partnership i don`t see as problem here. On the contrary. Poland can relax Slovakian-Hungarian and Serbian-Hungarian tensions. Fact is that Slavs need Hungary and that Hungary can greately profit on cooperation with Slavs. We need Hungary for land connection of Southern and Northern Sarmatian lands. Poles should explain that to Hungarians.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Sep 10, 08, 15:48 / #
http://wyborcza.pl/1,86871,5659174,Lavrov_Visit__Warsaw_Bracing_Itself _for_a_Firm_Talk.html Among the issues Mr Lavrov is to discuss in Poland are, for instance, bilateral relations, the US missile defence shield in Poland, the future of EU-Russia relations, or the situation in the Caucasus It will be interesting visit.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 10, 08, 15:54 / #
This was placed under general discussions. Missile Offense September 10, 2008; Page A14 The Kremlin has been dusting off old Bolshevik intimidation techniques since the U.S. signed a missile defense partnership with Poland last month. The Russian foreign ministry promised that its response "would go beyond diplomacy," and a Russian general mused that this meant its nuclear missiles would have to target Poland. Who would have thought such talk would find an accommodating ear in the U.S. Congress? The Tauscher-Obama "ideologically-based" hostility to the Polish agreement helps to explain why a majority of Americans aren't sure they trust Democrats on matters of national security. http://www.wsj.com/article/SB122100822784017613.html?mod=opinion_main_ review_and_outlooks

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Sep 10, 08, 16:03 / #
Celinski McCain with high propability is going to win elections. I haven't posted this article to prove that shield is good or bad ... It wasn't related to your post. I do support Sikorski policy not Kaczyński. This will be importnant visit we are neighbours.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 10, 08, 16:28 / #
ski: It will be interesting visit. well, Russia has historical opportunity to do something good for Poland and for Slavic West, to do more for Poles then false polish friends France, Britain and USA can do Russia should provide manuverable space to Poland so that Poland can take neutral stance on current military alliances and then have closer ties with Ukraine, Czeska, Slovakia and Serbia. Polish-Hungarian partnership i don`t see as problem here. On the contrary. Poland can relax Slovakian-Hungarian and Serbian-Hungarian tensions. Fact is that Slavs need Hungary and that Hungary can greately profit on cooperation with Slavs. We need Hungary for land connection of Southern and Northern Sarmatian lands. Poles should explain that to Hungarians.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Sep 10, 08, 17:02 / #
Crow: well, Russia has historical opportunity to do something good for Poland and for Slavic West, to do more for Poles then false polish friends France, Britain and USA can do you have very romantic point of view. Both Ławrow and Sikorski are cold players ... Crow: Russia should provide manuverable space to Poland so that Poland can take neutral stance on current military alliances Russia ... Crow: have closer ties with Ukraine, Czeska, Slovakia and Serbia. Polish-Hungarian partnership i don`t see as problem here. On the contrary. Poland can relax Slovakian-Hungarian and Serbian-Hungarian tensions. Fact is that Slavs need Hungary and that Hungary can greately profit on cooperation with Slavs. We need Hungary for land connection of Southern and Northern Sarmatian lands. Poles should explain that to Hungarians. I agree that dyplomtic contacts with central-southern european countries can be build on feelings and positive chapters in history (Hungary, Serbia) However I doubt that Tusk is able for such actions in larger scale...

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Sep 10, 08, 17:25 / #
LAVROV VISIT Better a firm talk then a foot up your ass...Poland needs to get a grip on reality.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Sep 10, 08, 18:40 / #
Russia: Follow Russia's Example and Acknowledge the Realities http://wyborcza.pl/1,82049,5680555,Follow_Russia_s_Example_and_Acknowl edge_the_Realities.html

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 11, 08, 05:50 / #
ski: Acknowledge the Realities I could not believe this and I hope EU studies the words. Lavrov is like a child that misbehaves, is punished, the parents neglect to follow through. Lavrov is so sure Russia can behave like they have in the past, and indeed feels "indeed prevailed". We all know that without consistant follow through the behavior gets worse. "I trust that pragmatism, common sense, and a positive - devoid of illusions and self-deception - attitude will prevail in international relations, as it often did in the past. In fact, the EU's decisions are evidence that a commonsensical, realistic point of view has indeed prevailed." *Sergey Lavrov, Foreign Minister of Russia, for Gazeta

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Sep 11, 08, 06:39 / #
celinski: celinski Russians ... Mr Lavrov's Offer http://wyborcza.pl/1,86871,5682597,Mr_Lavrov_s_Offer.html "Stop supporting Georgia - and, it is implied, Ukraine - respect our right to influence in the ex-Soviet area. Then we'll swallow the anti-missile shield and admit you to business with us as one of the 'old Europe' countries - that is the main message of Sergey Lavrov's article for Gazeta." I don't know what should I think about it.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 11, 08, 06:48 / #
"paying particular attention to regions where Russia has its privileged interests'." As in pipeline's. "Accepting Mr Lavrov's terms would be agreeing to Moscow's long-postulated 'new concert of powers for the 21st century'. To a world dominated by the largest countries, supported by their smaller allies." Well look here a silent takeover.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 11, 08, 07:09 / #
Sasha: betrayal of your people Protection of the people from Russian's threats. Sasha: It's a common sense. Stop thinking Russia can just take what Russia wants and respect others rights. Sasha: Russian agression as well as Russian threat is just a nice fairy-tale to distract your attention from the real troubles of your country from the treason. Tell that to Georgia.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 11, 08, 07:16 / #
celinski: Protection of the people from Russian's threats. Spambot... oops... I mean Carol, which way? When have you been outside last time? There're lots of things you don't know. Long story short once again... just read... Can you read btw? That does not protect Poland from Russian hypothetical thread. If Russia wanted to erase Poland with their missile, those anti-rockets would not any help Poland. Clear? celinski: Stop thinking Russia can just take what Russia wants and respect others rights. You've mixed things up. That's a basical american way of thinking. :)))))))))) We didn't want that conflict. The US did. celinski: Tell that to Georgia. You're funny, Carol! Are you alright? To whom? Tell that to agression? To the country who struck sleeping city with UNGUIDED missiles?????

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 11, 08, 07:33 / #
Sasha: We didn't want that conflict. The US did. US was not the one that went into Georgia to assure "Peace" as peace keepers do, and end up attacting and taking over, yes, taking over two area's. If you did not want conflict why did your military attack on such a large scale? Sorry you must stop trying to blame other for your country's actions.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 12, 08, 00:14 / #
celinski: US was not the one that went into Georgia to assure "Peace" as peace keepers do It was the one who gave a permission to the puppet Georgian regime to attack SO. celinski: If you did not want conflict why did your military attack on such a large scale? Don't pretend you can't understand things that is studied in first grade (seven years old) in Russia. Poti was the town where "Grad" missile system located, thus they had to take it under control.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 11, 08, 07:02 / #
ski: Russians are playing the old game .... Russia has changed for several times since the "old game ages". You Poles in terms of attitude towards Russia and Russians stayed the same forcing by your government. Russian agression as well as Russian threat is just a nice fairy-tale to distract your attention from the real troubles of your country from the treason. ski: Stop supporting Georgia That's it. Stop here. Don't read anything that's not in there, don't be paranoid. It's a common sense. ski: Then we'll swallow the anti-missile shield and admit you to business with us as one of the 'old Europe' countries As for your missile shield I explained here for several times as an engineer that this shield is a simple sell out, betrayal of your people (by your goverment). It's of none safety for your country but jeopardize you very much. Russians suggested locating missile shield (and that was a friendly step towards Poland... unfriendly only for your government since they got a bribe for that) and using radar system in Gabala (Azerbajdzhan). The US refused.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Sep 11, 08, 07:15 / #
I move from this place here forum.poland.com/?name=Forum

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 11, 08, 13:36 / #
ski: Then we'll swallow the anti-missile shield and admit you to business with us as one of the 'old Europe' countries for sure, this mean that Russia could take Poland for strategic partner rather then Germany. Maybe one day Poland and Russia split Germany and liberate Lusatia and all other enslaved Slavs under German occupation that would be nice ski: I don't know what should I think about it. don`t think. Take it while Russia offering hand and before Russia accept always opened German offer for split of Poland take it and then think how to save Slavic South, on the behalf of all our children Take it. Will you?

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Sep 12, 08, 09:12 / #
"Who are you to f------ lecture me?" David Miliband four-letter abuse from Russian foreign minister http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/andrew_porter/blog/2008/09/09/david_milib and_fourletter_abuse_from_russian_foreign_minister

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Sep 12, 08, 09:28 / #
McCoy: David Miliband four-letter abuse from Russian foreign minister Neither of them has any class / professionalism then, because Miliband shouldn't speaking about such things in public...And to be quite honest having seem Miliband interviewed I can't really blame Lavrov for losing it, he is a patronising idiot.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 12, 08, 09:38 / #
Thanks for the link, McCoy, it's interesting and sounds quite pro-russian.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Sep 12, 08, 09:43 / #
ski: Lavrov Visit Just wasting our time...

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Sep 12, 08, 09:57 / #
Grzegorz_: Just wasting our time... no. no! don`t say that Serbians are in such a deep sh** that only your combined efforts could save us

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 12, 08, 12:18 / #
Crow: that only your combined efforts could save us For example?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Sep 12, 08, 12:39 / #
ShelleyS: Miliband His grandfather was a "Polish" Jew, who as a volunteer joined the bolsheviks and in the red army fought Poland in 1920.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Sep 12, 08, 15:26 / #
celinski: US was not the one that went into Georgia to assure "Peace" as peace keepers do, and end up attacting and taking over, yes, taking over two area's. If you did not want conflict why did your military attack on such a large scale? Sorry you must stop trying to blame other for your country's actions. You are ignorant of facts, because of your 'Russo-phobia'...The US has been in Georgia for a number of years, training and advising Georgian troops, and supplying arms and money...Georgia, meaning Shakaashvilli and his friends, also receive monies from various 'foundations' and NGOs run by pimps like George Soros...also, the Israelis are very heavily involved in Georgia, both in terms of troops, arms and monies...The situation in Georgia is just a continuation of the 1000 year long conflict between the Rus and the Khazars...The Khazars hate the Rus, and also hate the Orthodox Church, and mean to see it wiped out, however long it may take, while at the same time seizing Russian resources, as they did in 1917...I support the Rus, you seem to support the Khazars, the same Khazars that aided in the Katyn massacre, and participated in the communist takeover of Poland beginning in 1939.

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Sep 12, 08, 16:23 / #
ski: I don't know what should I think about it. fvck them. i wouldn't trust a word from the russians.. EVER. Sasha: Russian threat is just a nice fairy-tale to distract your attention from the real troubles of your country from the treason. that's just nonsense. russian hasn't changed a fvcking bit. fvck them. russian has no right of any kind to do what it's doing to Georgia.. it has no right to influence in ukraine or any other place that finally got rid of the commies. it's all the old chameleon trick.. still the same underneath. Sasha: You've mixed things up. That's a basical american way of thinking. :)))))))))) We didn't want that conflict. The US did. bs. you're not so smart for an enginerd. hmm Sasha: You're funny, Carol! Are you alright? To whom? Tell that to agression? To the country who struck sleeping city with UNGUIDED missiles????? the simple fact you're forgetting is that that city and those territories are Georgia and not russia. Sasha: It was the one who gave a permission to the puppet Georgian regime to attack SO. again, they attacked their own and russia had no business rolling in. ski: Celinski McCain with high propability is going to win elections. i don't know where you're getting that but i sure hope ou're wrong.

DekameronThreads: 1 Posts: 289 Joined: Sep 11, 08	Sep 12, 08, 16:26 / #
Grzegorz_: His grandfather was a "Polish" Jew, who as a volunteer joined the bolsheviks and in the red army fought Poland in 1920 A Jew betraying Poland to side with Bolsheviks, now who would expect that ...

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 15, 08, 09:33 / #
McCoy: "Who are you to f------ lecture me?" David Miliband four-letter abuse from Russian foreign minister Lavrov has recently come up with the verbal explanation of what he said. "I used the f-word only once citing words of one well-known european politician about Saakashvili. He (european politician) said "f*ucking lunatic" about Saakashvilli. That was my response on Millband's statement of that Saaskashvili was a strong democrate respected by all the Europe and he didn't start the agression. I didn't say anything else..." Ministery of International Affairs promises to post a stenograph of their talk.