Poland agrees to settle Paris Club debt to France in September, why?

The Ursus Tractor Factory was one of the largest victims of this problem. By 1981, equipment that had been purchased in the West at the Ursus Factory amounted to 3,600 million zloty. Warehouse space at Ursus was filled with unused, unnecessary supplies, such as a stock of 1.6 million rarely used screws, for example, and since production of new warehouse space had stopped, other supplies were left to deteriorate outside. Gierek had invested nearly 1 billion dollars into a project of developing a modern Massey Ferguson model of tractor at Ursus, however due to licensing problems, these tractors could not be sold in the West, and could not be sold in the East because they were too expensive. Instead of the targeted production of 75,000 tractors per year, only 500 were produced.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	May 28, 08, 11:37 / #
I don't understand why this is Poland's bill? I say forward this to Russia. Poland agrees to settle Paris Club debt to France in September Poland has agreed terms to pay back the 347 million euros it owes France in "Paris Club" debt dating back to the communist era, the Polish finance ministry said in a statement. The ministry said the debt, together with due interest, would be paid on September 30. It said Poland still had a total of 714 million euros outstanding to six countries under the original Paris Club deal, which reordered its communist era debt burden at much higher interest rates than those for its bonds today. http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	May 28, 08, 12:13 / #
i couldn't find that article but i agree with you. BUT here lies the problem: The permanent member-nations of the club are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States. also: http://www.clubdeparis.org/ not one word about it there. hmm

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	May 28, 08, 12:26 / #
Looks as if this is Stalin's bar tab, just wait until Poland get the food bill. lol

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,349 Joined: Feb 20, 07	May 28, 08, 12:30 / #
celinski: to pay back the 347 million euros it owes France in "Paris Club" This could set a precedent. I know of people who have spent a lot of money at the 'Sofia Club' who will be looking to reclaim it. LOL.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: celinski May 28, 08, 12:35 / #
I guess Russia already owes them also. Russia about to sign an agreement with the Paris Club on the early repayment of all its US$ 22 billion debt clubdeparis.org/sections/services/communiques/russie9654/switchLanguag e/en Here are two more links. http://www.clubdeparis.org/search_form?SearchableText=Paris+Club%2C+Po land&folder_prefix=

PeterThreads: 5 Posts: 296 Joined: Mar 31, 07	May 28, 08, 12:43 / #
Of all the gall. BTW, is'nt Poland still repaying Britain for war loans for the supply of aircraft, ships, uniforms, etc?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	May 28, 08, 12:58 / #
Peter: Poland still repaying Britain for war loans for the supply of aircraft, ships, uniforms, etc? lol are you kidding.

PeterThreads: 5 Posts: 296 Joined: Mar 31, 07	May 28, 08, 13:03 / #
Peter: Peter: Poland still repaying Britain for war loans for the supply of aircraft, ships, uniforms, etc? lol are you kidding. Actually no. I just remember reading about it many years ago and was wondering if we were still paying it off. That's why I asked.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 28, 08, 13:17 / #
Peter: Actually no. I just remember reading about it many years ago and was wondering if we were still paying it off. That's why I asked. No. You mean that the British were paying the Americans for war loans. Those loans were finally repaid in 2006. Seeing as the Paris Club was formed years after Stalin died, it's not very realistic to blame Stalin for the debt. Most of the borrowing actually took place in the Gierek era.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	May 28, 08, 13:19 / #
like the money actually staid in PL. who are you kidding?

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	May 28, 08, 13:23 / #
Sure, this is unjust but also there is no other choice.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	May 28, 08, 19:41 / #
Harry: Rubbish. Next you'll be telling me that Poland hardly used any oil in the 1970s. no i won't say that but really, there weren't that many cars in PL back then. plus there is almost 10mill more peeps around now. Harry: Go to Ursus and have a look. i know about ursus and i have been there back then. do you really think that gierek sunk a billion zloty there though? i don't because i know how things worked back then. yes, they wasted a pretty penny there but i bet it wasn't the whole pie. some, maybe most went to moscow just like everything else man. polans was a front for the russians on many and possibly most deals ever made in PL during those decades. Peter: We should have sent them a bill for enigma, etc. and all the help defending the island. hmm

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	May 28, 08, 20:27 / #
Harry: Rubbish. Next you'll be telling me that Poland hardly used any oil in the 1970s. Natural gas 1981 - 5.3 b. cubic meters a year (less in 1970's) 2001 - 13.85 b. cubic meters a year Oil: 1987 - 5569 b/day 2004 - 424,100 b/day

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz May 29, 08, 06:36 / #
We must admit that French haven't signed Yalta treaty when Poland was sold for soviets (not impoertant now just interesting information) . Later Soviets started to kill Poles and rob our country. It is enought to remember ques to empty shops in 1988 and that immidiately after communism we had to many of different Polish products and Russians had enourmous shortages in shops and american food on credit (because of nukes Americans started to feed russians).

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 28, 08, 13:27 / #
plk123: like the money actually staid in PL. who are you kidding? How do you think things like the Eastern Wall complex in Warsaw were funded? Were do you think the billion US dollars that was wasted on the Ursus tractor factory came from? If you want to talk about cash flows, how much below world market price was Poland paying for oil and gas from the USSR? Why was Poland unaffected by the oil crisis of the 1970s?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	May 28, 08, 13:30 / #
there were hardly any gas burners in PL then. millions wasted at Ursus or actually sent to Moscow?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 28, 08, 13:35 / #
plk123: there were hardly any gas burners in PL then. Rubbish. Next you'll be telling me that Poland hardly used any oil in the 1970s. plk123: millions wasted at Ursus or actually sent to Moscow? Go to Ursus and have a look. The Ursus Tractor Factory was one of the largest victims of this problem. By 1981, equipment that had been purchased in the West at the Ursus Factory amounted to 3,600 million zloty. Warehouse space at Ursus was filled with unused, unnecessary supplies, such as a stock of 1.6 million rarely used screws, for example, and since production of new warehouse space had stopped, other supplies were left to deteriorate outside. Gierek had invested nearly 1 billion dollars into a project of developing a modern Massey Ferguson model of tractor at Ursus, however due to licensing problems, these tractors could not be sold in the West, and could not be sold in the East because they were too expensive. Instead of the targeted production of 75,000 tractors per year, only 500 were produced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursus_Tractor_Factory

PeterThreads: 5 Posts: 296 Joined: Mar 31, 07	May 28, 08, 19:11 / #
Peter: Peter: Actually no. I just remember reading about it many years ago and was wondering if we were still paying it off. That's why I asked. No. You mean that the British were paying the Americans for war loans. Those loans were finally repaid in 2006. Seeing as the Paris Club was formed years after Stalin died, it's not very realistic to blame Stalin for the debt. Most of the borrowing actually took place in the Gierek era. Ah.....my mistake. I got 2 articles I read mixed up. Mea culpa. Britain took a big chunk out of the Polish gold reserves that were sent to Canada (??)for safekeeping during WW2 as payment for war material supplied to Poland. We should have sent them a bill for enigma, etc.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 29, 08, 06:02 / #
^ Source? And well done selecting dates when Poland had no money (because it couldn't borrow any more) and so couldn't buy under Comecon and when the Comecon prices had risen.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	May 29, 08, 07:31 / #
Harry: ^ Source? Find them. I'm not going to do your homework. Come better prepared next time. Harry: And well done selecting dates when Poland had no money (because it couldn't borrow any more) and so couldn't buy under Comecon and when the Comecon prices had risen. As a matter of fact the figures are the highest that they had ever been under communist rule in Poland.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 29, 08, 09:43 / #
z_darius: Find them. I'm not going to do your homework. So it's my homework to look up your arse? Because that's where you've most likely pulled those figures from. You're quite happy to lie about what people say in their posts on this very forum so you're also highly likely to lie about things which take more effort to check.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	May 29, 08, 09:57 / #
Harry: Because that's where you've most likely pulled those figures from. you always make conclusions on likelihoods and personal grudges? Harry: You're quite happy to lie about what people say in their posts on this very forum so you're also highly likely to lie about things which take more effort to check. I haven't, but I caught you lying, and even claiming you knew what people think.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 29, 08, 10:39 / #
z_darius: I haven't, but I caught you lying, You have lied in this forum today about me and what I said. Want me to quote it?