Social mobility in Poland

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Nov 16, 08, 05:43 / #
What is really going on after the communist times?Is there already an established class in Poland trying to protect its interests?

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06	Nov 16, 08, 06:38 / #
Hmm... There are no social classes as such, however I'm sure there are some groups of interests that try to establish their position in the country.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Nov 27, 08, 15:58 / #
The Kaczyński brothers were always after the "układy" (coteries, cliques, informal ties) that had wormed themselve sinto free Poland since 1989, when the ruling ciommies struck a dela with the leftists of the Solidarity movement. Ex-commiers including secret polciemen establioshed niches for thersmelves in the privatisation programmes, on bank and company boards, set up detective and security agencies and made extesnive use of their commie-era contacts. The Gazeta Wyborcza crowd, many of whom had long records of collabroations with the former regime, took a hand washes hand approach and opposed all attempts at de-communisation, vetting and sweeping the regime's hangers-on out. To them, Jaruzelski, who had waged war on his own nation, was a "man of honour" and Kukliński (a Polish army officer who had provided NATO with sensitive Soviet-bloc plans) was dubbed a traitor. Members of such układy don't admit it, nor does that class have any formal name. A competlely different matter was that the Kaczyńskis' execution of that programme was clumsy and ineffective, eventually resulting in their party being swept form office in snap 2007 elections.

daystromThreads: - Posts: 8 Joined: Nov 28, 08	Edited by: daystrom Nov 28, 08, 10:38 / #
southern: Is there already an established class in Poland trying to protect its interests? hahaha, there was before 1989, hence Solidarność. Communism, capitalism, whatever, there is always a pecking order, always some group maintaining the established order over everybody else. It is what happens when you add people to noble concepts and ideas. [an edit] I would like to add that capitalism is probably a bit more honest about the way things go down. Under that system, you basically have a bunch of rich dudes scheming about how to better their own position motivated by pursuing self-interest. Keeping others down is just a largely unintended bi-product of that pursuit of self-interst. With communism you actually had the established order sitting about plotting to keep the masses down, it was one of their primary aims. :) peace out mróz