The 4th annexation of Poland

Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #27

(And for the time being, I'll rise above the need for name calling - maybe you could do the same, eh?)

Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #27

Workers - If you're telling me that educated people in Germany are coming to Poland to earn less, then i'm sorry, this is garbage. If you're telling me that uneducated germans are coming to Poland to earn less then their social security in Germany pays out, this is still unlikely albeit possible.

Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #27

My Polish History lecturer was not a commie, she is a student of History. If you care to read up on Polish history you'll find that the Polish country as it was was exceedingly good at messing things up. Don't take my word for it, put your head in a history book and find out for yourself. All countries have a dark side to their history (including mine, England), if you choose not to read it this is down to your own ignorance.

Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 19:13 / #
OK. Here are my fresh views on Poland (I've just come back from there). I'm Polish, was born in Poland and lived there for 20 years. There is the fourth annexation of Poland by Germany going on (for those who don't know what "annexation" means in Polish - Zabór Polski). Whenever you go, you hear Germans talking and laughing LOUD in the best pubs, restaurants, fitness clubs, hotels with tables littered with plenty of foods and drinks... (In the corners you can see poor Polish girls and boys sipping a bottle of cheap beer for two hours.) They buy land cheap, set up (sometimes bogus) companies, get tax breaks, and "hire" Polish people for 800 zl a month. THe Polish goverment is happy as they claim these companies "create jobs" after all. But they always forget to mention that Poles (quite often with high degrees) work for PENNIES for German bauers -- just like people in China do. Thanks, the European Union. Thank you - the Polish governments and officials. You decided for your children and grandchildren that they should be slaves of the "European" nation (with Germans on the throne). Only war can change that.

Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 19:20 / #
"When the German bourgeoisie spoke of Polish independence they had in mind an annexation of Poland. " http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sampol/polish/polish06.htm

KowalskiThreads: 12 Posts: 619 Joined: Sep 13, 06	Sep 18, 06, 19:43 / #
Don't come back and keep listening to Radio Maryja. The picture you painted is simply NOT true and there are too many examples to prove you wrong. Stay in wherever you are and .. pls change your nick.

Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 19:56 / #
Dude, what is not true? Do you even live in Poland? Poles are now doormats of the European Union (Germany) -- and their children will be at least througout the next century. Unless they immigrate to another country (to be doormats too, but with a higher standard and more opportunities).

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 18, 06, 20:01 / #
There are Germans here and that's about all I agree with. You will find that some of those Germans are actually working for Poles. Strange but true. I have this from Polish and German friends who have experienced it. Please, consider the employment situation in Germany and think about it.

Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:08 / #
I'm not against Germans only (even though they pull the strings of the EU) - I'm against the EU in particular. You say Germans "are" -- I say Germans (and other companies from EU) "HAVE" and "OWN" a large part of Poland now. And groWING. You say you from Wroclaw -- name how many POLISH companies (with Polish ownership/capital) are there in the Bielice shopping centers? Poles cannot see from their country what is going on there - those who immigrate see everything from another perspective (like a bird in the sky). Some day they will know. BUt it's too late.

boloThreads: 4 Posts: 345 Joined: Jul 11, 06	Sep 18, 06, 20:14 / #
You didn't expect Poland to become an empire within 17 years..? That's how the system of capitalism works - in the US it's the same situation (Mexicans, Poles, Russians etc.).

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 18, 06, 20:17 / #
What the hell are 'Bielice shopping centres' this means nothing to me.

Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:19 / #
Quoting: bolo, Post #7 You didn't expect Poland to become an empire within 17 years..? That's how the system of capitalism works - in the US it's the same situation (Mexicans, Poles, Russians etc.). OK __ BUT there is SLIGHT difference. Poles, Mexicans, or RUssians from U.S. ARE NOT IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. While Poles in POLAND (their motherland) have become doormats and slaves of the richer members of EU.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 18, 06, 20:26 / #
Patriot, How can you be a patriot. If you were you would stay here and fight back. That is: use your vote and challenge MPs. Try to redress the balance. But no, you have run away. You are not a patriot you are a coward.

Non-Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:54 / #
Quoting: old punk, Post #17 Rage Against the Machine I actually used to listen to it - but I didn't understand English back then.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 18, 06, 20:58 / #
old punk, I'm a Rammstein man. Who strangely enough are German. I'm off to bed. Goodnight.

mix	Sep 18, 06, 22:51 / #
Do widzenie

simon_porter00	Sep 19, 06, 03:09 / #
"Put power in the hands of the Polish people and they'll only go and fuck it up. Again." is what my Polish History lecturer at the Jagiellonian University told me. Polish history is littered with events in time where, when the Poles have power they always go into a state of anarchy after a period of time. Poland joining the EU is almost entirely a good thing for Poland. For one, it imposes EU law upon Poland and further removes it from decades of mismanagement under communism. Secondly an open market is exactly what Poland needs to transform it from a second world country into a first world country. The EU is ploughing money into Poland. Anyone (so it seems) can write a letter to the EU and get money for one thing or another. A prime example of this is the improvement of the road system, not only for major roads but in villages all over Poland. This argument, where the Germans, Irish, English etc are 'taking over poland' is nonsense. Companies move in to take advantage of cheap labour and to keep production costs down. Profit either then is re-invested or leaves Poland as it the companies wont but look what it leaves behind - many more people have employment, more money is spent in local economy, firms/businesses start up to supply. Its not all one way traffic. I know of a number of companies, estblished in Poland from the west, whose management teams are now Polish. THEY then start breaking EU laws for working conditions for their employees resulting in legal teams and new management teams from the west coming to sort out the problem! And before anyone starts bleating about profits leaving Poland, the free movement of workers from Poland to England has resulted in 3 BILLION, yes lets say that again, 3 BILLION pounds finding its way back to Poland. This money isn't just shoved in a matress for a rainy day either - its spent in Poland in local economies, houses are built etc.

Non-Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:33 / #
Why do you focus on my nickame? Do you think it's the gist of the problem? I run away -- because I TRIED to change people around me but they were too stiff-necked, naive, and lazy to make a change. In result, they are now buried under the rules of the EU. Poles cannot govern themselves - they need a whip to exist. At least those who stayed in Poland.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 18, 06, 20:33 / #
Bielany: Get a life. We have many shopping centres here. It is part of the policy of the local government to invite companies from other nations. Not just Germany. You really should check previous posts from contributors. Unlike you, some of us know what we are talking about.

Non-Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:38 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw, Post #13 It is part of the policy of the local government to invite companies from other nations. Not just Germany. If you read my posts, I don't focus on Germany only. The POLICY? Why am I surprised again -- most policies from the Polish "goverment" are against Poland and Poles. Why the countries of Skandinavia haven't joined the EU? Because their policies are pro-their own people, not pro bauers from EU. Quoting: Wroclaw, Post #13 Bielany: Get a life. We have many shopping centres here. 80%-foreign-owned.

Non-Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:40 / #
Again, I'm not trying to talk sh*t here -- just this is how I'm pissed after visiting Poland. That's all. You may understand it when you're abroad for some time and come back to a country that USED to be Polish-owned. Now it's just another bauerland.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,401 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 18, 06, 20:48 / #
Patriarse, Your first and second posts focused on Germany specifically. If you can't remember that what is the point of debating you on the subject. You have expossed yourself as an idiot. Goodnight.

old punkThreads: - Posts: 27 Joined: Sep 10, 06	Sep 18, 06, 20:52 / #
You need to stop listening to Rage Against the Machine.

Non-Patriot	Sep 18, 06, 20:54 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw, Post #16 Patriarse, Your first and second posts focused on Germany specifically. If you can't remember that what is the point of debating you on the subject. You have expossed yourself as an idiot. Goodnight. I'm not surprised to see such comments. You will get many answers like that from a Pole who cannot see further than his/her own garbage newspaper. They prefer to focus on things that have no meaning on the long run instead of things that are important for the generations to come.

old punkThreads: - Posts: 27 Joined: Sep 10, 06	Sep 18, 06, 22:27 / #
dobranoc

Mr Cogito	Sep 19, 06, 03:56 / #
Well, I think that you both "Patriot" and "simon_porter00" are total morons.. Why? Because: 1. The Germans here are coming mainly as tourists, patients or workers. The come here because often they can not afford spending their holidays nowhere else, because their healthcare system is to expensive and because nowdays more and more of them can not find jobs in their own country, not even speaking of places where they could make their practices (for example as mechanics, chefs etc in East Germany there are no places where they could finish their education in those jobs). They also come here to make their drivers license because its cheaper here. 2. Only a minor percent of the companies here is German of foraign owned. 3. Perhaps you don`t realize that, but Germany is not what it was some 10 years ago. ------ 4. Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #23 "Put power in the hands of the Polish people and they'll only go and fuck it up. Again." is what my Polish History lecturer at the Jagiellonian University told me. Polish history is littered with events in time where, when the Poles have power they always go into a state of anarchy after a period of time. WTF should that mean? Perhaps your university professor was a commie? Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #23 I know of a number of companies, estblished in Poland from the west, whose management teams are now Polish. THEY then start breaking EU laws for working conditions for their employees resulting in legal teams and new management teams from the west coming to sort out the problem! And I know you`re an idiot. Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #23 This argument, where the Germans, Irish, English etc are 'taking over poland' is nonsense. Companies move in to take advantage of cheap labour and to keep production costs down. And now I certainly know that you`re an idiot and that you don`t know anything about the economy and that you don`t know any companies as you try to imply above because http://manager.money.pl/strategie/marketing_i_sprzedaz/artykul/dlaczeg o;zagraniczni;inwestorzy;wybieraja;polske,149,0,150421.html foraign companies are coming here because of 1. the skilled workforce, 2. a large market where they can sell their products 3. because of our location in the middle of Europe 4. Because we`re in the EU.

Shelley	Sep 19, 06, 04:31 / #
Mr Cogito - would I be correct in saying that you used to be a regular poster here? I would say I know that penmanship anywhere

The 4th annexation of Poland - Watch LIVE now!

Mr Cogito	Sep 19, 06, 04:41 / #
Quoting: Shelley, Post #25 Mr Cogito - would I be correct in saying that you used to be a regular poster here? I would say I know that penmanship anywhere Excuse me Miss, but I don`t believe that we know eachother..

simon_porter00	Sep 19, 06, 04:42 / #
Your argument astounds me. It really does. The forum started off as "the germans are taking over Poland" yet your argument above does nothing to help that. In fact it helps my side of the argument more! (And for the time being, I'll rise above the need for name calling - maybe you could do the same, eh?) If the Germans (and the rest of europe) are taking over Poland how come they're injecting money into the economy: "1. The Germans here are coming mainly as tourists, patients or workers. The come here because often they can not afford spending their holidays nowhere else, because their healthcare system is to expensive and because nowdays more and more of them can not find jobs in their own country, not even speaking of places where they could make their practices (for example as mechanics, chefs etc in East Germany there are no places where they could finish their education in those jobs). They also come here to make their drivers license because its cheaper here. " So as tourists, they're paying money to come see Poland. Can't see this is doing harm to Poland. As patients, they're paying money to be healed in Poland, thereby paying money, as mentioned - this is good, and they're attempting to keep skilled doctors in Poland by requiring they're services. Once again, this benefits Poland - no? Workers - If you're telling me that educated people in Germany are coming to Poland to earn less, then i'm sorry, this is garbage. If you're telling me that uneducated germans are coming to Poland to earn less then their social security in Germany pays out, this is still unlikely albeit possible. In any case, if they're earning in Poland, Poland gets to tax earnings. Drivers, they're paying Polish firms money to learn a skill. This is quite a common theme, i'll repeat it again: Money into Poland = Good. My Polish History lecturer was not a commie, she is a student of History. If you care to read up on Polish history you'll find that the Polish country as it was was exceedingly good at messing things up. Don't take my word for it, put your head in a history book and find out for yourself. All countries have a dark side to their history (including mine, England), if you choose not to read it this is down to your own ignorance. I'm sorry, my Polish isn't good enough to read the article - maybe you could translate? However I agree with you on your final point - Foriegn enterprise comes here for: Skilled workforce (not all have disappeared to England/Ireland/USA) - and this is a good thing 'cos it keeps skilled people in Poland A large market - no denying that Location - yup Cos we're in the EU - yup, but I remember reading at the beginning of the forum, that this was a bad thing, but what you're saying its a good thing. We agree. AND ALSO Cos the labour force is cheap And production costs can be kept down - cheap labour, cheap land etc etc So, in summary. Your argument was I was speaking rubbish but in actual fact we agree on a lot of points. So are we both talking crap or both making sense?

Mr Cogito	Sep 19, 06, 05:06 / #
Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #27 (And for the time being, I'll rise above the need for name calling - maybe you could do the same, eh?) I don`t think so. I like calling things by their real name. Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #27 Workers - If you're telling me that educated people in Germany are coming to Poland to earn less, then i'm sorry, this is garbage. If you're telling me that uneducated germans are coming to Poland to earn less then their social security in Germany pays out, this is still unlikely albeit possible. Of course they are coming here because in East Germany the real unemployment is almost twice as large as here. The German unemployed, those who recieve unemployment benefits, are also settling here, cose here they can afford to buy more for their unemployment benefits. Quoting: simon_porter00, Post #27 My Polish History lecturer was not a commie, she is a student of History. If you care to read up on Polish history you'll find that the Polish country as it was was exceedingly good at messing things up. Don't take my word for it, put your head in a history book and find out for yourself. All countries have a dark side to their history (including mine, England), if you choose not to read it this is down to your own ignorance. I know all about the history of MY country and I certainly don`t need some foraign arsehole to tell me something about it. Why don`t you look at the history of England, I mean hey - the English can not do anything right, if it wasn`t the Vikings and the Germans (Saxons) England wouldn`t even be a civilized country right now. In my opinion you simply aren`t able to govern yourself.. You even have a German royal family.. but as I see the foraign rule over England is going weaker and weaker in the recent time.. Soon the UK will probably brake up into two parts: England and Scotland.. and then there is going to be a new power at the helm.. the Muslims.. I think that Sharia law is certainly going to be an improvement over the common law in England.. The English just can not manage themselves. They always fall into anarhy and disaster. Perhaps you should read some books concerning English history and I`m sure you`re going to come to the same conclusion. For the rest of your thread - since obviously you have some difficoulties in understanding my point - you`re only confirming my previous observation about you.

simon_porter00	Sep 19, 06, 05:30 / #
Oh dear. Another Pole refusing to listen to common sense nor being able to argue coherently nor logically. I pity you, you and your parents as they must be deeply shamed for raising up someone who has such severe chips on his shoulders. Still, I am in admiriation of people on this board who do speak common sense/can argue without turning into angry keyboard warriors. Good bye my poor little keyboard warrior, don't get too upset.

Shelley	Sep 19, 06, 05:36 / #
Quoting: Mr Cogito, Post #28 Why don`t you look at the history of England I'm quite well acquainted with my countries history and whist the Saxons came they went and not a lot was written as in the main they were iliterate and as for what they did, not a lot, have a good look at the history of Alfred the Great....