German nation - degradation or just deviation? Your opinions?

Obviously, something like the Fritzl case couldn't happen here. The Austrians are clearly amateurish bunglers. For the real deal, blighty can't be beat. Let's see..

Fred and Rosemary West - tortured, raped, and murdered at least 12 young women.

Peter Sutcliffe - murdered at least 13 women

Frank Beck - The true scale of Beck's crimes may never be fully known but he is estimated to have assaulted between 100 and 200 children over 13 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/becks-appalling-crim es-just-the-tip-of-child-abuse-scandal-702598.html

Jersey - Police investigating a child abuse scandal in Jersey have uncovered the first chamber in a network of alleged "punishment rooms" where some former residents of a children's home have told police they suffered physical and sexual brutality.

The 12ft-square room at Haut de la Garenne is dominated by a 5ft deep communal bath or animal trough which has been described by many of the victims of abuse from the 1960s to 1986. On a wooden post behind the bath someone has written in black marker: "I've been bad 4 years & years".

Building debris from the conversion of the home into a youth hostel in 2003 litters the floor of the cellar. A pair of shackles found in the room has been removed as evidence.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3471210.ece

Tell those Austrian lightweights to come over here to see how to do it properly.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK May 7, 08, 00:00 / #
Austria - Father kept his doughter under hatches for more than twenty years permanently raping her. She had a some children from him. Germany - Mother killed her two children and kept their bodies in the refrigerator for more than twenty years. Is it something wrong with nation in whole or is it only a single cases which do not represent the whole picture?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	May 7, 08, 00:37 / #
Kostia, what's wrong with you? If things are so bad why don't you want to discuss Russian atrocity? Abnormal people inhere in all the nations. Why did you raise up question exactly about germans? Look... our "crazy" (heh) nation have kept putin who's permanently raped 'em at the helm for eight years. ConstantineK: Is it something wrong with nation in whole or is it only a single cases which do not represent the whole picture? I give you a chance to answer yourself.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 7, 08, 00:38 / #
There is a discussion right now from one of the commenters I might quote: Obviously, something like the Fritzl case couldn't happen here. The Austrians are clearly amateurish bunglers. For the real deal, blighty can't be beat. Let's see.. Fred and Rosemary West - tortured, raped, and murdered at least 12 young women. Peter Sutcliffe - murdered at least 13 women Frank Beck - The true scale of Beck's crimes may never be fully known but he is estimated to have assaulted between 100 and 200 children over 13 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/becks-appalling-crim es-just-the-tip-of-child-abuse-scandal-702598.html Jersey - Police investigating a child abuse scandal in Jersey have uncovered the first chamber in a network of alleged "punishment rooms" where some former residents of a children's home have told police they suffered physical and sexual brutality. The 12ft-square room at Haut de la Garenne is dominated by a 5ft deep communal bath or animal trough which has been described by many of the victims of abuse from the 1960s to 1986. On a wooden post behind the bath someone has written in black marker: "I've been bad 4 years & years". Building debris from the conversion of the home into a youth hostel in 2003 litters the floor of the cellar. A pair of shackles found in the room has been removed as evidence. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3471210.ece Tell those Austrian lightweights to come over here to see how to do it properly.

SophiaThreads: 1 Posts: 145 Joined: Apr 8, 08	May 7, 08, 00:44 / #
Bratwurst Boy: There is a discussion right now from one of the commenters I might quote: I was tempted to list some of those and end it in the same question as ConstantineK did, but not about Germans.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK May 7, 08, 03:16 / #
Sasha: Kostia, what's wrong with you? If things are so bad why don't you want to discuss Russian atrocity? Surely, maniacs present in every nation (may be except Polish, because it is not in their character, they may be only victims), but all atrocities commited in germany (austria) characterized by some features which make this murders slightly "Gothic" or fine perverted. For exaple: Russian maniac Chicatilo, he killed many people, raped them before their death. Well, but I can understand him or explain his action at least. But I cant understand situation when some guys make the acquaintance by means of Internet, then one kills another and eats him by mutual consent. Sorry, but this situation is far beyond my understanding....it is not maniac's behavior, it is something another, something I cant express by words...

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz May 7, 08, 03:28 / #
there are some jokes about Germanic sexuality ... IMO taking one two persons and showing them as exaples "they are Germans" is very manipulative.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	May 7, 08, 03:42 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Fred and Rosemary West - tortured, raped, and murdered at least 12 young women. Peter Sutcliffe - murdered at least 13 women Well, you didn't understand me...they are all ill -minded people, maniacs..... The killed and raped victims but without victim's consent....

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 7, 08, 04:09 / #
ConstantineK: Sorry, but this situation is far beyond my understanding....it is not maniac's behavior, it is something another, something I cant express by words... Hey...without his consent it would be far worse! :)

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	May 7, 08, 05:39 / #
ConstantineK: German nation - degradation or just deviation? Your opinions? ConstantineK: Austria - Father kept his doughter under hatches for more than twenty years permanently raping her. She had a some children from him. Germany - Mother killed her two children and kept their bodies in the refrigerator for more than twenty years. They are two different nations... Bratwurst Boy: Bratwurst Boy Every nation has it's sick f*cks whether they be murderers or rapists. Having said that, the Fritzl case surpasses any of the examples you have given for sheer depravity. I mean to imprison and rape your daughter, father a child (well seven) with her, and then rape and imprison the resultant child (who is also your grandchild)... The mind boggles.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 7, 08, 05:43 / #
The question was I think if it could happen everywhere or only in Amstetten/Austria... What do you think?

JovaThreads: - Posts: 197 Joined: Mar 15, 08	May 7, 08, 06:06 / #
If this helps you, Poland isn't better either. A few years ago there was a case of a married couple who murdered their children and kept their bodies in barrels (there were 4 or 5 of them if I remember correctly...). You can't accuse all Austrians or Germans of being monsters just because a few random citizens of these particular countries committed horrifying and unimaginable crimes. Again, it's the problem of the human kind, nationality has nothing to do with it.

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	May 7, 08, 06:15 / #
ConstantineK: You are wrong, it's a different countries but the same nation. Austria is inhabited by Germans, isn't it Bratwurst Boy ? Well, historically? dictionary.com nation: a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax. So do Germany and Austria share a government or are you talking rubbish? ConstantineK: If Russian want to kill somebody he will never use such perverted methods Once again, utter rubbish... but by all means continue.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	May 7, 08, 06:31 / #
IronsE11: So do Germany and Austria share a government or are you talking rubbish? I said historically, nationality is formed and influenced by language in first place and only in second by government or states... Greek Cypriotes who are they?

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Edited by: IronsE11 May 7, 08, 07:00 / #
ConstantineK: I said historically, nationality is formed and influenced by language in first place and only in second by government or states... The dictionary suggests otherwise my friend. Your definition would suggest that Americans are the same nationality as the English? ConstantineK: Greek Cypriotes who are they? Is Cyprus governed by Greece? If so, they are part of the Greek nation. A nation state is defined by governments and borders not shared culture.

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,812 Joined: May 9, 07	Edited by: Polson May 7, 08, 05:44 / #
Hehe, i think American people are "worse" ;) ConstantineK: Is it something wrong with nation in whole or is it only a single cases which do not represent the whole picture? I'd say single cases. We have a similar story in France with a father killing his wife and kids... What a beautiful world... What if Louis Armstrong had lived in the 21st century ! ;)

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	May 7, 08, 05:52 / #
Bratwurst Boy: The question was I think if it could happen everywhere or only in Amstetten/Austria... What do you think? It could happen anywhere, I wouldn't suggest for one minute that this behaviour is peculiar to Austrians! Although they do seem to like their secret sex dungeons ;)

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	May 7, 08, 06:09 / #
IronsE11: ConstantineK: Austria - Father kept his doughter under hatches for more than twenty years permanently raping her. She had a some children from him. Germany - Mother killed her two children and kept their bodies in the refrigerator for more than twenty years. They are two different nations... You are wrong, it's a different countries but the same nation. Austria is inhabited by Germans, isn't it Bratwurst Boy ? Well, historically? Polson: I'd say single cases. We have a similar story in France with a father killing his wife and kids... What a beautiful world... What if Louis Armstrong had lived on the 21st century ! ;) I can say only one thing, that it is quait different forom Russian manner of murdering. If Russian want to kill somebody he will never use such perverted methods, he will use a bench axe, hunting rifle or a stool at worst. All Russians are straightforward and simple minded...

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	May 7, 08, 07:02 / #
IronsE11: ConstantineK: I said historically, nationality is formed and influenced by language in first place and only in second by government or states... The dictionary suggests otherwise my friend. Your definition would suggest that Americans are the same nationality as the English? Surely, Anglo-Saxonians, you are almost the same....

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	May 7, 08, 07:04 / #
ConstantineK: Surely, Anglo-Saxonians, you are almost the same.... You are confused. This has nothing to do with nationality.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	May 7, 08, 07:16 / #
ConstantineK: Is it something wrong with nation in whole or is it only a single cases which do not represent the whole picture? These are isolated cases. The one below however, seems to be a national perversion:

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	May 7, 08, 07:23 / #
Jova: If this helps you, Poland isn't better either. A few years ago there was a case of a married couple who murdered their children and kept their bodies in barrels Well, I think it is rather different, this german woman stored bodies in home refrigirator under food during 20 years and her childrens never had noticed them...it may sounds quite oddly for you, but I know each corner of my home refrigerator...or they jus simply had no any need to use food, but this case is rather odd as well... IronsE11: You are confused. This has nothing to do with nationality. Not a bit....Russians in Russia and Russians in Estonia for example, are they Russians or not?

GroundedThreads: 4 Posts: 117 Joined: Jun 2, 07	May 7, 08, 07:34 / #
ConstantineK: Not a bit....Russians in Russia and Russians in Estonia for example, are they Russians or not? You are indeed confused. Russians who live in Estonia are of course Russian however Estonians (is that what you call them???) arent. Austrians are not Germans because they speak the same language. I suggest you stay away from Scotland, Wales and Ireland in case you think that theyre english giving they speak the language. I am curious to know which "nation" you think the Swiss or Belgians belong to?

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Edited by: IronsE11 May 7, 08, 07:36 / #
ConstantineK: Not a bit....Russians in Russia and Russians in Estonia for example, are they Russians or not? bangs head against brick wall Russia and Estonia are seperate nation states. The Russian nation is different from the Estonian nation, despite the fact that the people used to belong to the same nation. A NATION IS DEFINED BY BORDERS AND GOVERNANCE. I really hope that helps.

F15guyThreads: 1 Posts: 230 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: F15guy May 7, 08, 07:39 / #
ConstantineK: German nation - degradation or just deviation? You seem to enjoy throwing "el crapo" into the fan and seeing what happens. Look at your title, "German nation". You may as well throw the Swiss into that mix. Unfortunately, every nation has its horror story or stories of deviant behavior. (Well, I don't recall ever hearing about mass murders in Iceland so maybe not every nation.) How 'bout for your next post, "Russia - Land of Mass Murdering Dictators."

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK May 7, 08, 07:52 / #
z_darius: The one below however, seems to be a national perversion: What do you say on this: http://members.tripod.com/~Motomom/index-3.html Grounded: I suggest you stay away from Scotland, Wales and Ireland in case you think that theyre english giving they speak the language. As I remember, Scots and other nationalities in GB originally had their own national languages, meanwhile Austrians never

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	May 7, 08, 07:57 / #
ConstantineK: Austria - Father kept his doughter under hatches for more than twenty years permanently raping her. She had a some children from him. German desire for control.Plus austrian kinkiness. ConstantineK: Germany - Mother killed her two children and kept their bodies in the refrigerator for more than twenty years. Control again.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK May 7, 08, 08:03 / #
F15guy: How 'bout for your next post, "Russia - Land of Mass Murdering Dictators." We had a pretty heap of these... southern: German desire for control.Plus austrian kinkiness. Fine! Southern! You are greek! What do you think, Greek Cypriots share the same nationality with mainland Greeks or they are quite different nation?

GroundedThreads: 4 Posts: 117 Joined: Jun 2, 07	May 7, 08, 08:05 / #
ConstantineK: As I remember, Scots and other nationalities in GB originally had their own national languages, meanwhile Austrians never Ah ok so thats where the difference is................

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	May 7, 08, 08:08 / #
ConstantineK: What do you say on this: That only confirms what others have said in this thread - there are freaks in every country.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	May 7, 08, 08:10 / #
Grounded: ConstantineK: As I remember, Scots and other nationalities in GB originally had their own national languages, meanwhile Austrians never Ah ok so thats where the difference is................ Exactly, Language is a primary tool which determines the culture and nationality...well it is the most powerfull feature, may be exept religion....