What's So Great About The UK?

starchild wrote:

My Polish friends came here for a better life and it is their opinion that they have a better life now. They say they have much better earning potential and can make something of themselves here, which they don't believe they could do at home in Poland.

When I asked them they said don't want to go back to Poland to live.

Even if we don't see why they would chose this country, its evident that they are seeing the opportunities they could have here that they don't have at home. Maybe you don't feel happy with your lot in life because you haven't lived anywhere worse.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H Jan 4, 08, 13:24 / #
I'm British and I live in Brighton & Hove which is a city on the south coast of England. I'm in my early 30s and personally find life here quite tough at times. Wages are low in comparison to the cost of living and I struggle to get by from month to month. The cost of petrol is the highest it has ever been and if it goes up much more, I'll find it hard to get to work each day. I'm not reckless with money and don't waste the money I earn on non-essentials. In recent years, in real terms, my salary has gone down. Personally I don't see the attraction for the Polish (or anyone else for that matter) to come here for work and/or to find a new life. Maybe someone could explain it to me ? I like to think I am a decent, honest, hard working guy who gets on with pretty much anyone and everyone, however, I am starting to feel sidelined by the UK Government in favor of foreigners. When I am out in town, I only seem to hear foreign accents now and these people are not tourists or students. They mainly seem Eastern European, possibly Polish and I'm starting to feel a stranger in the country I was born and raised in. This makes me feel a combination of anger and sadness. I don't blame people for wanting to make their lives better and if they see their best chance of doing that is to come to live here in the UK, then "Good Luck!", but should it be at the expense of the British people themselves ? I hope no one misunderstands where I am coming from and I'm not a bad or prejudiced person. I just feel I'm slowly being eased out of the picture........but I have nowhere to go.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 13:29 / #
seems like a lot of people are starting to feel the same as you - some leave, some stay, some accept and some moan welcome to the forum - do you live in b.right.on or hove?

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H Jan 4, 08, 13:41 / #
Thanks, BubbaWoo, I live in Hove. You're right in that I have options, just like anyone, but it shouldn't have to be as drastic for me to leave the UK and live somewhere else. I don't really want to leave. Broadly speaking, I like living here. But surely the various Governments I've been voting in and out all these years and all the tax revenue they've had off me should count for something ? I've played the game and got a job so being born here must entitle me to a slightly larger slice of the cake ?

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 13:51 / #
Mister H wrote: But surely the various Governments I've been voting in and out all these years and all the tax revenue they've had off me should count for something ? I've played the game and got a job so being born here must entitle me to a slightly larger slice of the cake ? im not goin to disagree with you on this but plenty on the forum will take offence and be happy to tell you exactly why ;-) i lived in brighton for a couple of years - up in kemp town - i enoyed my time there but at times i couldnt wait to get out of town, head along the coast or up to alfriston or some other little village just for a pint of real and some peace and quiet

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Jan 4, 08, 13:55 / #
I think the fact that you live in bton & hove says a lot. I have family there and the cost of living is higher than other areas of the UK and as its a tourist destination you are bound to have loads of foreigners!! Mister H wrote: these people are not tourists or students How do you know that? Mister H wrote: me to leave the UK and live somewhere else. Where do you think you will go to find a job that pays better and a government that loves you? Mister H wrote: all the tax revenue they've had off me should count for something ? What do you want? What exactly are you missing out on now that you are "being pushed aside in favour of foreigners"? I'm sorry... but you sound like a typical English whinger. Sorry, but you do!

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 14:02 / #
BubbaWoo wrote: plenty on the forum will take offence and be happy to tell you exactly why see what i mean

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Jan 4, 08, 14:04 / #
BubbaWoo wrote: see what i mean haha.. I'm not offended!! Just tired of another whinging thread about the same old thing... its boring

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 14:06 / #
im sure he will value your constructive contribution

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Jan 4, 08, 14:07 / #
Haha.. I doubt that! No-one likes being called a typical English whinger! Anyway, in typical English style, I'm off to make a cup of tea :-)

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 14:10 / #
i see sarcasm goes completely over your head

cheated	Jan 4, 08, 14:53 / #
Okay Mr.Pole I suppose you welcomed first the Germans and then the Russians with open arms when your home Country was invaded by foreigners??? Thought so, you still hate them both to this day. Point made. even your Worlds strongest Man is drug cheat...FACT

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Jan 4, 08, 14:59 / #
cheated wrote: Okay Mr.Pole I suppose you welcomed first the Germans and then the Russians with open arms when your home Country was invaded by foreigners??? Thought so, you still hate them both to this day. Point made. even your Worlds strongest Man is drug cheat...FACT I came on here to try and have a serious debate / conversation and don't want this hi-jacked or to descend into nastiness.

cheated	Jan 4, 08, 15:27 / #
My point is that when Britain has been used up and spat out and we''ll be left with quite a large amount of international flotsam, all these people can return to their homelands where it will be just as they left it. It will be full of their Countrymen whereas I as a Brit have no choice but to have been left a toilet of a Country full of waifs and starys in which I feel like the foreigner. IS THAT FAIR FOR ME? I HAVE LOST MY COUNTRY, THEY HAVE NOT. btw I'm married to an Asian woman and have 3 mixed kids, I live/worked abroad for 7 years because I was asked as there was a skills shortage. I paid full taxes and claimed nothing. I do NOT blame the individuals, I just feel there will be nothing of my heritage/Country for me to hand on to my kids. Whereas the Poles et al can go back to their respective Countries where their traditions and values are still intact.

cheated	Jan 4, 08, 15:54 / #
I work between 60 and 72 hours a week in my first job then the same amount on call as a retained firefighter, nothing wrong with my work ethic. I would stop all unemployment benefit and make the lazy and the workshy TAKE jobs. Only then would I allow immigration to fill vacancies. by the way, no-one has answered my question as to how welcoming you were to mass influence from Germany and Russia??? Did you enjoy it, were you MADE to like it? Did you think it was 'for the good' of your Country? No-one likes it-ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS.

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Jan 4, 08, 14:10 / #
Yes apparently so

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H Jan 4, 08, 14:39 / #
Just in case anyone's interested, I specifically sought out a forum like this one as an alternative to all the slanging matches that are taking place right now on other forums. I wanted an idea of what Polish and other Eastern Europeans think on all this and why they want to work for the minimum wage and hardly see their parents. The British are perfectly capable of tearing lumps out of each other from behind their keyboards, some in favour of mass and uncontrolled immigration and but many others not, but I wanted to hear another point of view for a change. And I don't think I am a "typical English whinger", Starchild, as if I was I wouldn't bother posting on here and ask for the opinions from the other side of the fence would I ? I'd be sitting in a pub somewhere getting drunk and whinging to people I know would agree with me. I know I live in a city popular with tourists and students, but this runs deeper than the usual seasonal rush of a few extra people. Alfriston is a very good choice for some peace, quiet and a nice village pub, BubbaWoo :-) Anyway, no one has told me yet why they're so happy to be here.......

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 14:56 / #
does anyone know what this fool is talking about?

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Edited by: starchild Jan 4, 08, 15:09 / #
My Polish friends came here for a better life and it is their opinion that they have a better life now. They say they have much better earning potential and can make something of themselves here, which they don't believe they could do at home in Poland. When I asked them they said don't want to go back to Poland to live. Even if we don't see why they would chose this country, its evident that they are seeing the opportunities they could have here that they don't have at home. Maybe you don't feel happy with your lot in life because you haven't lived anywhere worse. edit just read your edit about minimum wage and parents... I can only tell you about my friends opinions, but they earn much more than minimum wage, although they do earn lower than the going rate for English trades and they are glad to have the freedom away from their parents and live their lives independently... but as I said, that just goes for my mates, I'm not generalising

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Jan 4, 08, 15:22 / #
starchild wrote: My Polish friends came here for a better life and it is their opinion that they have a better life now. They say they have much better earning potential and can make something of themselves here, which they don't believe they could do at home in Poland. When I asked them they said don't want to go back to Poland to live. Even if we don't see why they would chose this country, its evident that they are seeing the opportunities they could have here that they don't have at home. Maybe you don't feel happy with your lot in life because you haven't lived anywhere worse. Fair enough, pretty much the answer I expected , but I don't get how you all make ends meet ? The cost of living is very high here and many British people I know have yet to be able to afford a mortgage. I'm lucky to have a mortgage and be on the property ladder, which is part of the reason why emmigrating would be harder. You're right in that I've only ever lived here, so can't compare it to anywhere that might be worse. I appreciate wages are higher here compared to what you might be used to, but I don't really understand how it pays all your bills. You maybe riding high now, but what about in ten years time when you're still renting ? Do you see your earning potential growing and job prospects getting better the longer you are here ? The Poles I've met through work, and I don't mean to appear rude, are ok at what they do, but I don't seem them being promoted as their written English isn't so hot.

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Edited by: PolskaDoll Jan 4, 08, 15:27 / #
This is a subject that my Polish friends and I talk about now and then. Mister H wrote: I wanted an idea of what Polish and other Eastern Europeans think on all this and why they want to work for the minimum wage and hardly see their parents. starchild wrote: My Polish friends came here for a better life and it is their opinion that they have a better life now. They say they have much better earning potential and can make something of themselves here, which they don't believe they could do at home in Poland. Some of my Polish friends say that they came here for a better life too. They generally work in jobs with a higher level of pay than minimum wage and they are mostly happy with the lives they have here. They say that it's also an opportunity to visit another country and to explore it. Mostly it's because they want a better life. As for missing parents and other family members, they do but as Starchild says, they are away from them so there is a sense of freedom. Being in the UK, Poland is only a couple of hours away, flights are cheap so holidays can be spent in Poland. Most of my Polish friends currently feel that things are good enough at the moment they would most likely remain here rather than move back to Poland and are looking at buying properties in the next couple of years. Mister H wrote: but I don't get how you all make ends meet ? Generally by working two jobs, many hours in each. As the saying goes "needs must" and I don't hear my Polish friends complain too much about working lots. It was their decision to come and they know this. At the end of the day hopefully it will all pay off. (As we all hope).

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 4, 08, 15:29 / #
cheated wrote: all these people can return to their homelands where it will be just as they left it. yeah but they wont have anywhere to live coz we bought all the houses

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Edited by: starchild Jan 4, 08, 15:31 / #
Mister H wrote: Mister H Yes I agree with you and as we know the problems you have highlighted are being faced by most of the younger generation nowadays, ie getting on the property ladder. Hopefully some other people will be able to give you their input as well, but in them meantime, I can tell you that the Polish people I know are financially in better positions than my English friends. Again, I use my friend as the example so am not generalising, but they all save and have savings, they buy expensive purchases, such as their car, with cash and not on credit and they have the ability to do this as they have a great work ethic. My guys at work do a full time week for us and will work evenings or weekends on private jobs if extra cash is needed. I do wonder how they will move from renting in shared housing to becoming home owners but one of our friends has just bought a new built flat, as he and his gf both earn quite good money. In all honesty I am more worried about my English friend, who still lives at home. I don't see how she will get on the housing ladder as she has such high outgoings through being irresponsible with credit as a teenager. Sometimes I wonder if we have been given too much opportunity and not had to learn how to do things the hard way? Myself included of course.

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Jan 4, 08, 15:41 / #
starchild wrote: Hopefully some other people will be able to give you their input as well, but in them meantime, I can tell you that the Polish people I know are financially in better positions than my English friends. I did ;) I agree with you that some of the Polish people I know are better off financially. They do work hard for it though. Some of my non-Polish friends would faint at the thought of a second job ;) starchild wrote: Yes I agree with you and as we know the problems you have highlighted are being faced by most of the younger generation nowadays, ie getting on the property ladder. Easier as a couple both earning to get a mortgage so Polish couples (any couples really) will be able to do this easier than single people.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Jan 4, 08, 16:57 / #
starchild wrote: In all honesty I am more worried about my English friend, who still lives at home. I don't see how she will get on the housing ladder as she has such high outgoings through being irresponsible with credit as a teenager. Sometimes I wonder if we have been given too much opportunity and not had to learn how to do things the hard way? Myself included of course. Thank you for your comments, Starchild, I hope I've gone some way to prove that I'm not the typical English whinger you might have first thought. British banks are very irresponsible in the way that they lend money. Not only the that, they are also very bad at educating their customer in the way that various products, especially credit cards and overdrafts, work and whether or not they should be taken out. Having worked in banks and for credit card companies for many years now I can say hand on heart that they chuck money at people and keep their fingers crossed they might get it back. In my day to day job I see a lot of people struggling with their finances and many are immigrants who can barely speak English enough to make themselves understood, let understand credit card Terms & Conditions. I truly don't know how these people can manage their lives with such a poor command of the language. Although I only have one job, there is nothing wrong with my work ethic and, although I'm not saying anyone on here has suggested otherwise, I do get tired of being tarred with the "lazy British" brush and that the reason that immigrants seem to be doing so well is that they want to work and we don't.

starchildThreads: 2 Posts: 136 Joined: Aug 24, 07	Jan 5, 08, 04:40 / #
Mister H wrote: hope I've gone some way to prove that I'm not the typical English whinger you might have first thought. Yes, snap judgement on my part but the immigration argument is hard to keep listening to when you care about/love some of the immigrants in question! When I hear the comments made about losing 'Britishness' or cuts in wages due to cheaper labour or whatever, (in the media, on the net, etc) I just feel like they are directly talking about my closest friends, my family, so its hard to remain objective! Do you understand where I'm coming from? Its not that you don't have good and valid point and opinions. Also, after a week of seeing noimmigrations hate threads, it did seem like another anti-Pole post - which you proved it was not. Thank you for that :-)

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Jan 5, 08, 04:56 / #
Mister H wrote: see their best chance of doing that is to come to live here in the UK, then "Good Luck!", but should it be at the expense of the British people themselves ? - Don't worry, the majority of the Polish people will leave UK. Scores of us have been leaving already. So eventually there will be just you and other foreigners - non-Poles, thankfully - the majority of them crowds of Third World people, on your precious little island. Actually, there are incomparably more non-Polish, mostly Third World, foreigners in the UK than Poles, but you don't complain about that, right? So yes, we'll leave UK, not to worry. Thanks for your, ahem, hospitality. Maybe in the future you'll need ours - we'll be happy to offer you exactly the same one as you've been giving us. Mister H wrote: I hope no one misunderstands where I am coming from and I'm not a bad or prejudiced person - We understand perfectly what you really mean, e.g. when you assure that you are not a 'bad or prejudiced person.' :)))

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Jan 5, 08, 07:53 / #
puzz,you been smokin' that jamacian old holbern again? You dont half get paranoid about people (btw,a hint,when getting morally outraged about percieved rascism/xenophobia,its not such a hot idea to come accross as rascist/xenophobic to all non whites....) ? This guy has come on here and stated his point of veiw,which,incidently is close to the way I feel and you know im not "polonophobic" dont you. It really will be interesting to keep an eye on say this forum in a few years time when Poles return home only to find a whole lot of jobs and housing taken up by Ukrainians and Belarussians. I do wonder if we will see a certain level of hypocrasy?

cheated	Jan 5, 08, 08:28 / #
Oh yeah right, you're Country has done marvels for the world(ha!) I can see by your comments that you''ll be pleased to get back to a Country full of your compatriots. We on the other hand do not have that privilage, I can imagine how welcoming Eastern Europe would be to third world immigrants by your 'veiled' barbs. Who are the real xenophobes then??? Nice post isthatu, very objective. Like I said before I have no problems with individuals it's my pathetic government I hate---NOT POLES.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Edited by: osiol Jan 5, 08, 08:57 / #
No-one's actually answered the question 'What's so great about the UK'. It has a fine geological record ranging from the Pre-Cambrian all the way through to the Quarternery. It has mountains that are tiny enough for just about anyone to climb, but can still look nice and rugged. It never gets too hot or too cold. It's a fantastic place if you like rain. I can buy a huge variety of fresh fruits and vegetables, nuts, herbs and spices. Ignoring the big supermarkets there are still good quality food shops. I can buy locally-produced meat and poultry and a wide range of cheeses from across Britain and Europe. British cheese-making is going from strength to strength. Even French producers have been taking advice from us. Despite the high cost of living, wages are relatively high and there are opportunities for those who want to better themselves. There is a wide variety of different people here. Once you avoid some of the ghettoised areas in big cities, you find that the huge majority of people get on with eachother and care more about who people are rather than where they came from. The water quality is very good. Why anyone drinks bottled water at home is a mystery to me because the stuff that comes out of the tap is as good, if not, better. Not everything is great. There are many problems that people moan about to varying levels (that is: varying levels of intelligence as well as varying levels of whinginess). It is well worth knowing what is wrong with the place, but if you don't look at the good side, can you see the positive in anything. I do have negative things I could state, but I won't just now

cheated	Jan 5, 08, 09:08 / #
...and still no-one dares answer. again I ask "by the way, no-one has answered my question as to how welcoming you were to mass influence from Germany and Russia??? Did you enjoy it, were you MADE to like it? Did you think it was 'for the good' of your Country?" The only answer was 'stupid'??? ...well that solved it then with that peice of intelligence. Mark my words when the shoe is on the other foot you won't feel as welcoming. Do you really think it is right to have access to infrastructure OTHER people have paid for? You have all been controlled by a superstate before and therefore cannot understand how it feels for us as British to have the eu tell us who we can and cannot allow into OUR Country.