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The 2nd Amendment (USA), the right to own guns


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El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 		  Jan 29, 08, 21:14 /  #
This is for anyone, American, Polish, or from the UK, doesn't matter. In the Constitution of the US the second Amendment gives US citizens the right to own guns. Some say it is merely for militias, others say it is for anyone.

I believe that any American has the right to own guns:

1) Hunting - biased documents from D.C. keep saying hunting is recreational, but do hunters go out, shoot the deer, and then leave it be? No, they eat the deer. How is getting food recreation?

2) Safety - tons of bad places in the world, people will want to kill you, and I understand if you want a handgun for safety.

3) Assault rifles - this is where I draw the line. Why the f*ck would you need an M16 in your home? Are you frequently inder siege by your neighbor? Not likely, so I agree with this one.

The thing is, Hillary Clinton is against ALL firearms, hunting rifles and pistols, and will most likely try to ban them if elected. My question is, how do you feel about it???

Do you believe we have a right to own firearms, or not?
miranda Edited by: miranda   Jan 29, 08, 21:17 /  #
El Gato wrote:
Do you believe we have a right to own firearms, or not?

you have the right but is it wise Gato?

But then telling the American to give up his gun is like telling him to have his hand amputated;)
polishgirltx   Jan 29, 08, 21:22 /  #
i think we do have a right...
miranda wrote:
is it wise?

I don't know a person where i live who doesn't own a gun... and it doesn't mean that every Texan is a serial killer...
you have the right to protect yourself...
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 		  Jan 29, 08, 21:26 /  #
miranda wrote:
But then telling the American to give up his gun is like telling him to have his hand amputated;)


Lol. 1/3 of America hunts. Its a big part of the culture, why should it be illegal?

miranda wrote:
you have the right but is it wise Gato?


Some people use guns for the wrong reason, and any gun owner will tell you they hate those people, but the average gun owner is an outdoorsmen/huntsmen type of person.
miranda   Jan 29, 08, 21:28 /  #
polishgirltx wrote:
you have the right to protect yourself...

well, of course you do. As I said before the right is there, the crazy and less crazy people with guns are dangerous. I wponder what the statistics are when it comes to the number of death when the guns were used in self defence - it is such an American logic.
polishgirltx wrote:
I don't know a person where i live who doesn't own a gun.

that doesn't make it right.

Personally, I don't care as long as those guns stay in the USA. Unfortunatley, they end up in Canada and the rates of gun crime has gone up, so my answer is NO.
polishgirltx   Jan 29, 08, 21:29 /  #
El Gato wrote:
Some people use guns for the wrong reason

it's been like that, it is and it will be... legal or illegal will not change anything in that matter...
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 		  Jan 29, 08, 21:33 /  #
miranda wrote:
well, of course you do. As I said before the right is there, the crazy and less crazy people with guns are dangerous. I wponder what the statistics are when it comes to the number of death when the guns were used in self defence - it is such an American logic.


One out of every 3,000 gun owners (legal or illegal owner) will shoot a person (accidentally or intentionally)

That of course is when you add the estimated number of people thought to own guns illegally, like gangs.

It is very low if you take only the legal gun owners.

miranda wrote:
Unfortunatley, they end up in Canada and the rates of gun crime has gone up, so my answer is NO.


But those people own them illegally, and will still have those guns if Hillary gets her way or not. All she will do is take them away from people who have done nothing wrong with their guns.
Patrycja19Threads: 79
Posts: 3,972
Joined: Oct 31, 06  Pictures: 1 		  Jan 29, 08, 21:47 /  #
El Gato wrote:
My question is, how do you feel about it???


no I dont, after one was held to my head, and it was supposed to be for hunting
and I watched my life pass before me over and over till he fell asleep..

to many people abuse.. its not worth the fight.. not to me.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 		  Jan 29, 08, 21:53 /  #
Patrycja19 wrote:
to many people abuse.. its not worth the fight.. not to me.


It's not even close to a majority of the people who own guns, not even 10%, its a bunch of retards who ruin things for others. Everyone knows that alcohol and guns don't mix.

As stupid as this sounds to some: Guns don't kill people, people do. It is so true. Take away the guns, and they'll still kill. Why don't we just outlaw knives, and blunt objects, or send people to prison for making a fist. Better yet, lets all wear bubble suits so we can't pick anything up to kill each other with. Take away the cars, ropes, and anything that can be used to kill.

Patrycja19 wrote:
no I dont, after one was held to my head, and it was supposed to be for hunting
and I watched my life pass before me over and over till he fell asleep..


I'm sorry that happened to you, but some people are just plain dumb. You can't blame them all for the occasional retard.

Were you more afraid of the gun, or the guy holding it?

All technology is neutral. It becomes good or evil when humans apply it. We have to keep this in mind with everything.
plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,412
Joined: Aug 29, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Jan 29, 08, 23:02 /  #
El Gato wrote:
But those people own them illegally, and will still have those guns if Hillary gets her way or not. All she will do is take them away from people who have done nothing wrong with their guns.

seems to be the opposite in Australia since the recallection of guns. hmm

however i agree with you.. i like my guns and don't you thread on my ak47 or m16 rifles.. just because you labeled them as assult doesn't make them so, 'K?!

El Gato wrote:
Take away the guns, and they'll still kill. Why don't we just outlaw knives, and blunt objects, or send people to prison for making a fist. Better yet, lets all wear bubble suits so we can't pick anything up to kill each other with. Take away the cars, ropes, and anything that can be used to kill.

guns are easy and super deadly.. knives just aren't as effective and anything else requiring extra work is just too much as most peeps are too lazy to do that. alsoo other means require extra time, thus time to think and reaccess the situation.


there are plenty of guns in canada, more per capita then US could ever dream of.. everyone has guns up there.. but they don't shoot each other as much.. it's a cultural thing.. americans still think it's the old wild west here... and it is not.
kman67Threads: 2
Posts: 93
Joined: Nov 8, 07 		Edited by: kman67   Jan 30, 08, 07:03 /  #
El Gato wrote:
Do you believe we have a right to own firearms, or not?


I thinkthat in the modern day, it is more of a priviledge to own a gun than it is a right. I believe that when the amendment was made in 1787, it was truly a right for a variety of reasons.

I had to go through a variety of hoops to get my gun license. I had to get fingerprinted and have those fingerprints run through the State Police, FBI, etc. I had to submit to a background check and the State Police definitely checked my background. I got calls from a bunch of people letting me know that they were contacted.

The main thing is to keep everything safe. Now that I have a baby on the way, I am going out to get a gun safe. I do not want little hands monkeying around with anything that will hurt them.

I own 2 shotguns myself. I like to go pheasant hunting in the fall. I've gone deer hunting a few times as well. You are going to meet jerks everywhere. Most of the hunters I see are stand-up people. But there are those who WILL shoot something and leave it (i.e. shooting a deer just for the antlers). Those people are the people who make the news and give the rest of the hunters a bad name.

If I shoot a pheasant, I feel badly for the bird because I just killed it, but I also know that I have a really good dinner coming my way in a few days. Same with a deer. If I am lucky enough to shoot a deer, I will have 200 pounds of meat in my freezer. Neck meat makes WONDERFUL chili!

I'll tell you something else about hunters (well... at least myself). When I go into the woods or corn fields to go pheasant hunting, I come out of the woods with garbage in my pack more often than I come out with pheasants. I am always picking up empty coffee cups, beer cans/bottles, and other assorted garbage and putting those items in their proper place.

In the US there is a group called P.E.T.A. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals). 2 years ago, I had some woman from PETA screaming at me as I came out of the woods about how bad a person I was. After she was done with me, she started yelling at another hunter. I noticed that she was just finishing her cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee and she threw the styrofoam cup on the ground. I then went back to her and told her that, by her littering, she was hurting more animals than I was.

One of the PETA woman's arguments was that I could go and get a pheasant in the supermarket. This is true. But a fresh pheasant in the supermarket costs USD 25. For a shotgun shell costing USD 0.5 and an investment of time, I can bring home my own pheasant.

Besides, I love walkign through the woods and seeing what I can see. There was one time that a Bald Eagle let me get within 10 feet of him. Then with just 3 flaps of its wings, it crossed he Delaware River from New Jersey to Pennsylvania. Amazing!

I agree with you as well regarding M-16's. I also draw the line with assault weapons. I do not know why you need an Uzi in your house.

Hanguns are another matter. I can see the arguments of both sides. But I support people owning hand guns. I can only see that if the hand guns were taken away from all people, the honest ones will turn them in, but the criminals will still have theirs.

Boy! That was long winded, wasn't it?
BubbaWooThreads: 46
Posts: 4,438
Joined: Sep 26, 06 		  Jan 30, 08, 07:27 /  #
El Gato wrote:
Do you believe we have a right to own firearms, or not?


remember that a lot of americans are complete nuttas and own guns - you should have guns to protect yourself from all the other people who own guns

pre-emptively, the american government believes that it is sometimes the best policy to shoot them before they shoot you
krysiaThreads: 26
Posts: 3,604
Joined: Aug 10, 06 		  Jan 30, 08, 07:55 /  #
My grandmother used to sleep with a gun under the pillow during the war in Poland.
Guns aren't scary, it's the people who own them.
It is harder to get a gun in the US now because they check your background, etc. I used to go to gun shows all the time years ago and you could buy anything from anybody without questions. Now the law has changed making it more difficult to own firearms.
ZgubionyThreads: 21
Posts: 2,037
Joined: Oct 20, 06 		  Jan 30, 08, 09:04 /  #
If it weren't for our right to bear arms, the American Revolution would've never been successful and we would be a British colony. The right to bear arms was created to maintain our freedom from government....any for that matter.
kman67Threads: 2
Posts: 93
Joined: Nov 8, 07 		  Jan 30, 08, 09:45 /  #
Zgubiony wrote:
If it weren't for our right to bear arms, the American Revolution would've never been successful and we would be a British colony.


That's along my line of reasoning too. I think the spirit of the amendment was to keep the population ready to react to a police state or to any invasion. Remember the minutemen that they had in Massachusetts. The US needed people that could react quickly. Thus the need to bear arms.

Remember that in colonial times, most of the citizens were equipped with old muzzle loaders that were out of date and muskets. The British army was the most impressive, well run army in the world. The Americans were woefully behind them and at a tremendous disadvantage.

But again. That was then. I think it was totally a right and a need back in 1787. In the modern day, I think it is a priviledge.
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 		  Jan 30, 08, 15:25 /  #
plk123 wrote:
i like my guns and don't you thread on my ak47 or m16 rifles


My father has one in Poland from his old army days :]

kman67 wrote:
Boy! That was long winded, wasn't it?


But well said, great arguements. I agree with everything you said. My father, grandfather, and uncles were all avid hunters in Poland back in the day, but my father stopped hunting here. I went a few times with my uncles and its a great experience.

About the little kids and guns. Statistics show that children who are educated about how deadly a gun is are less likely to "play" with it like a "toy" so I advise you teach them about it, at the age you see fit of course.

BubbaWoo wrote:
remember that a lot of americans are complete nuttas and own guns - you should have guns to protect yourself from all the other people who own guns


True. Depends on where you live though. You have to know the laws very well too. If a man breaks into your home, and starts stealing your things and makes no attempt at harming you, and you shoot him, he can sue you for a lot of money. The laws are all twisted around so nobody can know them all.
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Jan 30, 08, 17:36 /  #
I'd like to have the right to bear biological weapons (only little ones of course) to protect me from poeple with guns.
DiceThreads: 20
Posts: 677
Joined: Nov 27, 07 		Edited by: Dice   Jan 30, 08, 17:49 /  #
This may be helpful: URL
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This is the actual language of The Second Amendment - now some may say that all it says is that a "regulated Militia" has a right to bear arms, or is it "the people"?
BubbaWooThreads: 46
Posts: 4,438
Joined: Sep 26, 06 		  Jan 30, 08, 17:57 /  #
El Gato wrote:
If a man breaks into your home, and starts stealing your things and makes no attempt at harming you, and you shoot him, he can sue you for a lot of money


not if hes dead

as i was told by a british policeman, if you catch chav scum on your property again, beat him to death and then tell the police you just kept hitting him till he dropped the knife
plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,412
Joined: Aug 29, 07  Pictures: 2 		Edited by: plk123   Jan 30, 08, 18:58 /  #
Dice wrote:
This is the actual language of The Second Amendment - now some may say that all it says is that a "regulated Militia" has a right to bear arms, or is it "the people"?

notice the comma.. it's 'the people' that have the right to bear arms.

kman67 wrote:
I do not know why you need an Uzi in your house.

defence but why not take it out to get some fresh air.. maybe i should be telling you that you don't need those shotguns then.. there are bows out there, you know? you could also kill just about anything with a knife, rambo style, so maybe you don't really need the bow either.. what do you think?

Hanguns are another matter. I can see the arguments of both sides. But I support people owning hand guns. I can only see that if the hand guns were taken away from all people, the honest ones will turn them in, but the criminals will still have theirs.
and this argument doesn't hold true in regards to ak47 or an uzi?
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Jan 30, 08, 19:01 /  #
Can I have nukes?
plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,412
Joined: Aug 29, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Jan 30, 08, 19:10 /  #
krysia wrote:
It is harder to get a gun in the US now because they check your background, etc. I used to go to gun shows all the time years ago and you could buy anything from anybody without questions. Now the law has changed making it more difficult to own firearms.

that's not entirely true.. if you buy from a licensed gun dealer then you have to jump all the hoops and basically have your weapon registered with the gov.. if you buy a private party, you don't have to do anything except exchange of the goods.

kman67 wrote:
In the modern day, I think it is a priviledge.
nope.. it's on 'that god damn piece of paper,' is it not?

El Gato wrote:
he can sue you for a lot of money.
well, you got the answer from bubba but you can also say that you were in fear for you life and free you stay. :D
El GatoThreads: 9
Posts: 459
Joined: Sep 21, 07 		  Jan 30, 08, 20:20 /  #
osiol wrote:
I'd like to have the right to bear biological weapons (only little ones of course) to protect me from poeple with guns.


Putting waste into a town's well is considered a form of biological warfare. You should hold a town hostage. Just hold a bag of maneur over the well and demand a million dollars and a helicopter.
plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,412
Joined: Aug 29, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Jan 30, 08, 21:32 /  #
osiol wrote:
Can I have nukes?

gun version? i think we're using nukkular waste in bigger shells currently but if there is demand for the small calliber, i am sure your (our) friendly firearms industry will give you what you want.
beckskiThreads: 19
Posts: 2,147
Joined: May 15, 07  Gold Member MEMBER  Pictures: 3 		  Jan 31, 08, 00:13 /  #
El Gato wrote:
Do you believe we have a right to own firearms, or not?


A gun may be a necessity for protection. We don't need fat ba$tards like Michael Moore, telling us we shouldn't own one.

A sincere thanks PF, for putting up with me FIVE terrific years, muah!
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Jan 31, 08, 01:38 /  #
Are you allowed to shoot your neighbour's cat when it sh1ts on your lawn?
kman67Threads: 2
Posts: 93
Joined: Nov 8, 07 		Edited by: kman67   Jan 31, 08, 06:49 /  #
osiol wrote:
Are you allowed to shoot your neighbour's cat when it sh1ts on your lawn?


That's why B.B. guns were invented :-)

plk123 wrote:
nope.. it's on 'that god damn piece of paper,' is it not?


You are totally correct plk. It's in the Constitution. But that still remains my feelings. We've come a long way from 1787 when the Constitution was written and have evolved as a nation. I don't need a gun to join the militia at a moments notice. So I think that we are free to own a gun. But I still think that in the modern day, it is more of a priviledge.

plk123 wrote:
and this argument doesn't hold true in regards to ak47 or an uzi


plk, it is your opinion. You are entitled to it and I cannot argue with it. But my opinion is that, no, the argument doesn't hold true. My opinion is that an assault weapon in your house is not necessary. My opinion is that a shotgun, bow, whatever, serves a purpose for sport. A handgun serves a purpose for self defense. But an assault weapon serves a purpose for which it was named. An assault weapon is for attack and I don't see its useful purpose in a civilian life.

However, it is a gun and it is protected under this amendment, so it is a moot point. I don't believe our founding fathers envisioned assault weapons when they drafted the Constitution. I can only imagine a guy in 1787 wanting a cannon to be protected under this amendment so that he could load it with grape shot or cannister and go rabbit hunting...
DiceThreads: 20
Posts: 677
Joined: Nov 27, 07 		Edited by: Dice   Jan 31, 08, 07:56 /  #
Hunting is so popular in Michigan, that we have "hunting widows" here. When the deer hunting season starts in November, about a million men goes up north to hunt. There are so many "widows" (lol) left behind, and many of them like to go out and have "some fun'', it is considered a busy time for the bar industry. If you are a single guy looking for an easy lay, the deer hunting season is it :)
At the same time there are many thousands of "hunting prostitutes" going up north to keep company for the men. They come from all over Michigan, out of State and Canada LOL!
JumpinJuniperThreads: 1
Posts: 23
Joined: Dec 29, 07 		  Jan 31, 08, 16:58 /  #
Personally, I love my guns. I have a high powered rifle for long range sport shooting, and long range hunting out west. I own a Hungarian sks, and just bought a Brazillian .45 model 1911. I am not a gun fanatic like for example the jag offs who committed the columbine shootings, or belong to any malitias. I am a responsible gun owner, the way all gun owners should be.
I 95% support gun restrictions in USA up to this point, such as ppl w/ criminal records not allowed to own guns. But if USA follows the footsteps of the rest of the world, I will feel insecure. What stops criminals with stolen or unregistered guns from robbing an honest former gunowners house then? we would be defensless. If that were to happen, I would probally carry a 20 lb Viking sword or something.
Guns are a mechanism that men and women love fro fun and recreation just like any other toy.
P.S. I WOULD LOVE TO DROPKICK HILLARY CLINTON! Go Romney. please respect my opinions, for i will respect yours.
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,948
Joined: May 17, 07 		  Jan 31, 08, 17:02 /  #
I would like to have a sniper to kill some Albanians.
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