Several shot at Northern Illinois University, USA

JohnP wrote:

Figures....
I would bet a case of your favorite that it is already illegal to possess a firearm on the campus of that university...
Or the shooter may would have had a little more thought before doing such a thing. Its easy to shoot unarmed people. Not so much if one thinks the other guy will shoot back.
Hope as many as possible of the victims are ok, and those who are not, prayers for their families.
John P

sledz wrote:

the gunman is dead it happen at NIU at Dekalb,IL

its allover the news here..couple students wounded

ZgubionyThreads: 21 Posts: 2,037 Joined: Oct 20, 06	Edited by: Zgubiony Feb 14, 08, 16:22 / #
Was just another University shooting in Northern Illinois. not too sure of the details yet though More here.. JohnP wrote: Figures.... I would bet a case of your favorite that it is already illegal to possess a firearm on the campus of that university... Or the shooter may would have had a little more thought before doing such a thing. Its easy to shoot unarmed people. Not so much if one thinks the other guy will shoot back. Hope as many as possible of the victims are ok, and those who are not, prayers for their families. John P sledz wrote: the gunman is dead it happen at NIU at Dekalb,IL its allover the news here..couple students wounded

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06	Feb 14, 08, 16:28 / #
gunman was shot and killed 4 students with head wounds dont know how serious yet

wizard8873Threads: - Posts: 6 Joined: Jan 31, 08	Feb 14, 08, 17:39 / #
18 students that were injured including the 4 students. supposedly there are two deaths, don't know if this includes the gunman or not.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 14, 08, 18:53 / #
suppose charlton scumbag will be all over the palce screaming "outa my cold dead hands.." yet again....shame it never is his cold dead hands but the cold dead hands of more young kids....when will you guys lose the obsession with guns?Theyre not big and they aint clever:(

Shawn_H	Feb 14, 08, 18:55 / #
wizard8873 wrote: two deaths, don't know if this includes the gunman or not. Does Illinois have the death penlty? If yes, I hope he lived.

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Feb 14, 08, 18:58 / #
5 killed. He couldn't take the snow.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 14, 08, 20:13 / #
the gunman is dead. and there is no need for illegalization of guns.. this as all other violence is not the caused by guns but by people.. i am thinking we should just make 'dumb' illegal, maybe that'll help.

wizard8873Threads: - Posts: 6 Joined: Jan 31, 08	Edited by: wizard8873 Feb 14, 08, 20:46 / #
Shawn_H wrote: Does Illinois have the death penlty? If yes, I hope he lived. not that i know of. whats worse is that he wasn't even a student, just some random guy that walked into the building. at least thats what i've been reading. poor kids. i can understand someone wanting to off themselves but do it in a way that doesnt hurt innocent people. if you want publicity, run your car into a barrier or off some bridge. you get what you want and not hurt others that had nothing to do with it edit 6 dead and 16 wounded

ZgubionyThreads: 21 Posts: 2,037 Joined: Oct 20, 06	Feb 15, 08, 16:12 / #
NIU officials have confirmed the names of the following students killed in the shooting: Daniel Parmenter, age 20, last of Westchester, Ill. Catalina Garcia, age 20, last of Cicero, Ill. Ryanne Mace, age 19, last of Carpentersville, Ill. Julianna Gehant (pronounced Ghee-hant), age 32, last of Mendota, Ill. Gayle Dubowski, age 20, last of Carol Stream, Ill. NIU officials have confirmed that the gunman has been identified as Stephen Kazmierczak, age 27, of Champaign.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 15, 08, 16:16 / #
Say it aint so,a Pole did this? plk123 wrote: this as all other violence is not the caused by guns yeah,tell that to the mothers of the kids with bullet shattered bodies!

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 15, 08, 16:53 / #
well your as sick as Charlton heston then plk....I didnt expect that from you bud'. :( Your "freedoms" are more important than the lives of these children,tsk.

PinkJewel	Feb 15, 08, 16:59 / #
Say for arguments sake that the US decided to change it's gun law and ban them...how on Earth do you get the people of the United States to hand in their guns? It's impossible. It's dreadful what happened yesterday (and elsewhere over the week) but the US is always going to be a place where it's your right to own a gun.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Feb 15, 08, 17:03 / #
PinkJewel wrote: how on Earth do you get the people of the United States to hand in their guns? It's impossible. They could allow them to carry water guns.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 15, 08, 17:27 / #
Sorry,but have I ever suggested totally outlawing Guns? not in this thread,or the 2nd amendment thread,but there has to be an answer somewhere,like say,your free to keep a pistol in your house for protection,or free to take a rifle/shotgun into the woods to shoot fluffy bunnies and Bambi etc,but,you step out onto the street with a gun and your not a law enforcement officer,you get shot or arrested by said law enforcement agencies.And whats with all the frikkin assault rifles and sporting SMGs?.....

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Feb 15, 08, 16:17 / #
Zgubiony wrote: Kazmierczak, Polish name.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Feb 15, 08, 16:50 / #
isthatu wrote: yeah,tell that to the mothers of the kids with bullet shattered bodies! i would because i believe strongly in my freedoms. just because some guys was whack doesn't mean i should lose my rights. there is already too much of that in the USA.

PinkJewel	Feb 15, 08, 17:30 / #
No. I was pointing out that the US has gone beyond a point where they could ban guns and move on. They have to think of something else.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Edited by: isthatu Feb 15, 08, 17:44 / #
arm all teachers with an Uzi ? Not give huge headlines to these tragedies ( publicity seeking nut jobs seem to be the main culprits/or bullied kids who snapped in the case of columbine),

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: Dice Feb 15, 08, 18:31 / #
isthatu wrote: your free to keep a pistol in your house for protection,or free to take a rifle/shotgun into the woods to shoot fluffy bunnies and Bambi etc,but,you step out onto the street with a gun and your not a law enforcement officer,you get shot or arrested by said law enforcement agencies. that is exactly the way the law is here now. isthatu wrote: And whats with all the frikkin assault rifles and sporting SMGs?..... I believe these are outlawed. The gunman used a hunting shotgun, Remington 12 gauge. It's a bird hunting shotgun, it shoots pellets not bullets. That's what I have and accidentally it's the most popular firearm in USA and Canada. isthatu wrote: publicity seeking nut jobs seem to be the main culprits Agree. This one apparently had stopped taking some drugs and that flipped him over... PinkJewel wrote: how on Earth do you get the people of the United States to hand in their guns? It's impossible. That's true. I may be willing to give up my shotgun, but not an average American (not yet). It does seem to be happening, only s;lowly, step by step. I think it went similarly in Australia. There was Brady bill in the 90's (ban on the assault guns), there was federal waiting period to by a gun... etc PS. It's a terrible tragedy anyway you look at it and my hart goes out to the victims.

jestesjedynyThreads: 7 Posts: 146 Joined: Oct 7, 07	Edited by: jestesjedyny Feb 15, 08, 19:02 / #
It's very, very sad. He killed 6 including himself and injured 21. "Apparently he had been taking medication" but stopped and had become "somewhat erratic" in the last two weeks, Grady said. ==> Every time there is some sort of shooting like this one, I always read the part "he had been taking medicines" this or that....... WTF! (or maybe it's just a coincidence, but wtf anyways) "He was an outstanding student, an awarded student" who was even "revered" by faculty and fellow students, Grady said. "A fairly normal, undistressed person." Nerdkiller or just a victim of drugs/medications. Stephen Kazmierczak, 27, a former student at Northern Illinois University source: URL

JohnPThreads: - Posts: 544 Joined: Sep 8, 07	Feb 15, 08, 20:12 / #
While it doesn't sound like he gave much time for reaction, even had the other students had time to return fire. Still, in pre-antigun days, one wonders would such a person 1. still even attempt this and 2. would he have shot SO many people before someone simply shot him, instead? Like the old anecdote from Paul Harvey's radio segment years ago, where the armed robber pulls his firearm at the bank expecting everyone to drop-only to hear "click, click, click..." and had the misfortune of robbing the bank on FBI payday.... John P.

El GatoThreads: 9 Posts: 459 Joined: Sep 21, 07	Edited by: El Gato Feb 15, 08, 20:39 / #
isthatu wrote: yeah,tell that to the mothers of the kids with bullet shattered bodies! Shot by other children or some dumb@ss who thinks he's a gangsta. isthatu wrote: Your "freedoms" are more important than the lives of these children,tsk. You're right. All the children ever killed were killed by legally owned guns. Great observation. Most people who kill have guns illegally. The News tries to make our world controversial by saying "This crazy bastard killed a hundred people with his hunting rifle" while badboy gangsta in the ghetto has probably done the same but gets bailed out of jail by his crack dealing friends. I guarantee that the vast majority of shootings are done with illegal guns. So taking away the freedom to own them legally wouldn't even put a dent into the numbers, seeing as the police have a hard enough time finding the illegal ones now. I'm assuming you're from over the pond? Somehow you guys have gotten your laws to work, but life in America is very different. I can take you on a tour some day and you'll see things my way. We won't be able to walk down some streets without getting mugged by some crazy crack addict who wants your money for some blow. In some areas it really is that bad. Just a sad fact of life. isthatu wrote: but,you step out onto the street with a gun and your not a law enforcement officer,you get shot or arrested by said law enforcement agencies Its legal to take a gun outside. Its also legal to own a concealed weapon, but not on government property. With the right papers it is right, but most people don't have them and usually get busted eventually. isthatu wrote: And whats with all the frikkin assault rifles and sporting SMGs?.....

marek sThreads: - Posts: 451 Joined: Sep 9, 07	Feb 16, 08, 15:21 / #
isthatu wrote: suppose charlton scumbag will be all over the palce screaming "outa my cold dead hands.." yet again....shame it never is his cold dead hands but the cold dead hands of more young kids....when will you guys lose the obsession with guns?Theyre not big and they aint clever:( a fellow polack killed those kids, not the gun. isthatu wrote: well your as sick as Charlton heston then plk....I didnt expect that from you bud'. :( Your "freedoms" are more important than the lives of these children,tsk. and your must be Saddam Husseins twin and you dont believe in "rights" there is a thing called the Second Amendment. the red meat thats cooked in food kills more people than guns, maybe they should ban the meat. isthatu wrote: you step out onto the street with a gun and your not a law enforcement officer,you get shot or arrested by said law enforcement agencies. in 33 states you can legally carry a weapon. those people should be shot because that what you believe in? isthatu wrote: And whats with all the frikkin assault rifles and sporting SMGs assault rifles are selective fire weapons that has a safety lever, semi auto lever, burst lever and full auto lever. civilians cannot own assault weapons without a class three permit. what civilians can own is clones that look like assault weapons and the clones only fire a bullet everytime you pull the trigger. isthatu wrote: arm all teachers with an Uzi it has been a proven fact time and time again, when states first allow a person to legally carry a weapon that the crime rate goes down.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 17, 08, 10:26 / #
marek s wrote: a fellow polack killed those kids, not the gun. wrong,twas the bullets flying out the gun and into their flesh and organs that killed them. marek s wrote: and your must be Saddam Husseins twin and you dont believe in "rights" fek off colonial boy,we have had rights in this country since 1215 AD,dont try lecturing , you end up looking even more daft and poorly endowed. marek s wrote: assault rifles are selective fire weapons that has a safety lever, semi auto lever blah blah,even I know how to theoreticaly convert one of those to full auto... marek s wrote: clones only fire a bullet everytime you pull the trigger. well,hhmmm,does it take that much effort to pull a trigger 28 times(30 if yer a muppet that dont know how to load right),so much more effort than double taps on auto?..

JohnPThreads: - Posts: 544 Joined: Sep 8, 07	Feb 17, 08, 13:47 / #
isthatu wrote: wrong,twas the bullets flying out the gun and into their flesh and organs that killed them. Hmmm. I'm sure most murderers on death row would LOVE the courts to take your point of view. While bullet wounds are indeed the vehicle for death to occur as you have pointed out, someone still made the conscious decision to take others' lives. I feel he shoulders the lion share of the responsibility. Imprison the gun too, however if that helps...... isthatu wrote: blah blah,even I know how to theoreticaly convert one of those to full auto... This is much harder to do than one might imagine from watching TV; in most cases one would need access to heavy machinery out of the price range of most; milling machines, metal lathes, that sort of thing-in which case, might as well make a whole gun for all the trouble "converting" one would be. In the old days perhaps some of the "assault" weapon type firearms could be converted easier, but the parts are not interchangeable nowadays, even if one could procure them.... isthatu wrote: well,hhmmm,does it take that much effort to pull a trigger 28 times(30 if yer a muppet that dont know how to load right),so much more effort than double taps on auto?.. Had he hosed them all with pepper spray then beat them to death while they were down, would you feel better? I know, of course not, that was a bit low-but we can't go on blaming the tools used by murderers, when the murderers themselves are responsible, IMHO. John P.

marek sThreads: - Posts: 451 Joined: Sep 9, 07	Feb 17, 08, 14:06 / #
isthatu wrote: rong,twas the bullets flying out the gun and into their flesh and organs that killed them. who put the bullets in the gun?? a person thats who. isthatu wrote: fek off colonial boy,we have had rights in this country since 1215 AD,dont try lecturing , you end up looking even more daft and poorly endowed. and telling me to "fek off" makes you look bright? isthatu wrote: lah blah,even I know how to theoreticaly convert one of those to full auto... theoretically its not as easy as you think. also its very illegal. so just because a person "might" be able to convert a semi auto rifle, they should ban them. if thats the case, they shouldnt allow cars to go over 35 mph just because a person "might" speed. isthatu wrote: well,hhmmm,does it take that much effort to pull a trigger 28 times(30 if yer a muppet that dont know how to load right),so much more effort than double taps on auto?.. it doesnt matter how much time it takes a person to pull a trigger X amount of times, its legal here in the united states. by the way, not all semi auto rifles have clips that hold 30 rounds, ms piggy. JohnP wrote: we can't go on blaming the tools used by murderers, when the murderers themselves are responsible, IMHO. some people just dont understand that

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Feb 17, 08, 14:16 / #
Dice wrote: that is exactly the way the law is here now. you must either be in MA or DC or cool co. IL as one can carry a firearm almost anywhere one pleases.. yes, one needs a permit but that's not a big deal if one has clean record.. i am about to get a lifetime permit. :D :D Dice wrote: It's a bird hunting shotgun, it shoots pellets not bullets. ever heard of Sabot? i hunt deer with my shotgun and bird shot is not effective at all. Dice wrote: There was Brady bill in the 90's (ban on the assault guns), there was federal waiting period to by a gun... etc was the operative word.. it's a gonner now. thank g. :) isthatu wrote: well your as sick as Charlton heston then plk....I didnt expect that from you bud'. :( Your "freedoms" are more important than the lives of these children,tsk. gun laws only apply to law abiding persons.. i am tired of the gov meddling in my life and one dumbarse ruining it for everyone else. the laws in place are plenty enough.. if this guy had mental issues then someone blew it as he isn't supposed to be able to get a hand cannon anyway. isthatu wrote: wrong,twas the bullets flying out the gun and into their flesh and organs that killed them. bombs are illegal but somehow that didn't stop mcveigh... hmm.. JohnP wrote: Imprison the gun too, however if that helps...... they melt them

JohnPThreads: - Posts: 544 Joined: Sep 8, 07	Feb 17, 08, 14:35 / #
plk123 wrote: gun laws only apply to law abiding persons.. i am tired of the gov meddling in my life and one dumbarse ruining it for everyone else. the laws in place are plenty enough.. if this guy had mental issues then someone blew it as he isn't supposed to be able to get a hand cannon anyway. Yep. plk123 wrote: they melt them So I've heard, although I'm sure some of the "choice pickings" get "rescued" by some unscrupulous police types for their personal collections...I had a 110 year old Winchester 30-30 (so old it actually mentioned on the barrel that it was intended for use with smokeless powder!) which as you know would be a very expensive firearm- which a few years ago a coworker got and fired in the city limits of San Diego while I was gone (I'd never even FIRED it-was considering passing it on if I have kids). It was seized by the Police, and subsequently I went to Iraq, missing the deadline to retrieve my rifle. I imagine it has been melted or claimed since then unfortunately.... Melting firearms. What a hideous idea. Use them for school firearms responsibility/safety courses and I'll bet they'd save a lot more people. John P.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 17, 08, 14:38 / #
oh that sucks.. may want to inquire about the weapon.. i would.. you may have special 'rights' if you were serving during the due dates..

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 17, 08, 14:50 / #
Good counters plk, We actually have the same debates here in the UK(and Im more attuned to your p o v than you may think but just like getting the debate going) . In the early 80s,law abiding citizens in the UK were actually allowed far scarier bang sticks than you guys.A licence could get you say a .30 cal browning lmg ,tommy gun,you name it,then a nutter went on the loose in a place called Hungerford,a big killing spree including his own mum ,of course,the local coppers couldnt do much ,old webley service revolvers locked up at the station house etc.He went "postal with sub machine guns ,auto pistols,the job lot. No matter he was the first to do this,pretty much everything was banned save bolt action rifles and pistols. Then in the 90s a sicko(mates with a local highranking cop and judge so overlooked that he legaly owned guns) went on the loose in a nursery school,gunning down 16 babies and their teacher,guess what?All pistols banned. Even our olympic team has to practice in France!