Polish-Islam Relationship Union

Quoting: Grzegorz_

Her father arrived at her home with 40 men and threatened to kill her for betraying Islam.

"I saw my uncle and around 40 men storming up the street clutching axes, hammers, knives and bits of wood," she said.

"My dad was shouting through the letter box, "I'm going to kill you", while the others smashed on the window and beat the door.

DoodayThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: Dec 8, 07	Dec 8, 07, 21:30 / #
Hi. I'm a Polish male who converted to Islam. I'm a bit appalled at the anti-Islam/Middle Eastern/Asian attitude here but I just wanted to give my opinion on Polish-Muslim relationships. I am married to a Muslim Pakistani girl. She is absolutely wonderful. She is traditional but we have much in common. We both are very family oriented and realize how important it is for a well functioning society. My wife was a virgin when we married. she does not drink or do drugs. She respects my wishes and I could not be happier. After immersing myself in her culture and her in mine we realize there are so many similarities. Many Poles here have eaten chałwa which is a Middle Eastern dish (halva). There are other Middle Eastern influences in Polish cooking but I won't get into that. What I will get into is that Muslim-Polish relations have always been good. Iran and Poland were very close allies dating back to the 16th century. Polish students went to Iran to study and Persian students came to Poland. A great number of Polish citizens sought asylum in Iran during the World War 2, and it was the biggest migration of Europeans to Iran ever. Then there are the Tartars who are still present in Poland since 14th century. There were also mass conversions to Islam during Polish-Turkish wars. There are many mosques in Poland such as in Poznań, Gdańsk and Warsaw. Some are in primarily Tartar settlements such as in Bohoniki. I didn't mean to type this much but I was getting so annoyed with the anti-Islamic sentiment and generalizations. Giving examples of fundamentalist Islam such as in Afghanistan is really unfair. Christian fundamentalists who don't allow their women to leave the house, wear pants, date, etc, also exist. Everyone has different moral values. Each and every individual is different. No one can say if Polish women like Black men or Indian men or anything. Some do. Some don't. Same with men. I have seen a lot of Polish women marry Muslim men and they are happy. I haven't seen many Polish men marry Muslim girls but I've known some other white males to have done so. No one can predict if it will a successful union. You can't even predict that with a Polish couple. Its not just Muslims who treat their women bad. I know many non Muslim white males who are abusive and controlling. Generalizing this is ridiculous. I do apologize for typing this much. I am sure no one will read it but I hope some of you do. For further reference about Islam in Poland: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Poland al-islam.org.pl/english.htm cais-soas.com/CAIS/Culture/Iranian_culture_poland.htm

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Edited by: z_darius Dec 8, 07, 21:58 / #
I went to one of the sites and I found this (rough translation from Polish): Is masturbation permitted by Islam? Iraq Masturbation or leading oneself to ejaculation in a different manner is not allowed, except when it occurs within permitted circumstances (with the wife) Liban Masturbation or leading oneself to ejaculation in a different manner is not allowed. However, if the wife causes her husband to ejaculate by using her hand then it is allowed. C'mon! The holy scriptures regulate wanking and hand jobs? or this: Music: Ajatullah Sistani (Iraq): The border line dividing the music that is permitted from the music that is forbidden is whether its character is appropriate for immoral entrtainment gatherings.[/b] I think we need more than halva to make Islam palatable for Poles, let alone other Europeans.

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Edited by: Filios1 Dec 9, 07, 00:42 / #
I do agree with your main message dooday, that no one should generalize a whole religion or culture. However, some of the things you mentioned, for example the Tatars having a flourishing community are false. Most of the Tatars didn't simply move to Poland because Poland has strong Islamic ties, rather they were used as light cavalry by Poland during times of war and many settled and formed communities in Poland after they were done warring.

DoodayThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: Dec 8, 07	Dec 9, 07, 01:48 / #
My point is a bit scattered, and I apologize. I grew up Catholic, went to a Catholic school, and became interested in Islam as I got older. I decided to convert because I felt like it was right for me. I felt like I could follow the religion for what it is and not some bastardized Taliban version. Reading comments that basically state that one should be ashamed of being Polish and converting to Islam are quite appalling to me seeing how there is Islamic presence in our country and not just Tatars, but native converts as well. I'm not saying Islam is right for everyone or that fellow Europeans should come around and convert. What I was saying was that historically Poles and Muslims have had peaceful ties and the cultural impact can be seen in little things here and there. The Tatars were offered refuge, religious freedom, and high status. They were also allowed to marry Polish women of Catholic faith. If they were persecuted against, there wouldn't, after 600 years still exist in Poland. It was because of the good treatment that Polish kings gave to them that they stayed and became an asset to our country. In more recent times, as I stated earlier, the Polish migration to Iran during WW2 shows there hasn't been an anti-Islam viewpoint. My post was mainly out of shock at the close minded generalizations, and while I understand why some facets of Islam were being attacked.. lets say masturbation. If I am correct, doesn't Christianity forbid that as well? I can point out more white males who are disrespectful to their women than Muslim males then why make it look like its the "Islamic thing to do"? Its all a bit immature. One can point out many things about each and every faith and culture they don't find agreeable but attacking others for deciding its the one for them is going a bit too far, I think.

worklinkThreads: 1 Posts: 22 Joined: Dec 6, 07	Dec 9, 07, 02:52 / #
Ignorance is the main thing, media the other. To know what is Islam (the real Islam) one have to make a research or just like you - get married with muslim. Then it become clear. These days when people think of Islam terrorism is the first idea that rushes to their heads - again, out of ignorance and media. No one who made attempt to kill innocents could be a muslim, regardless to what they say. Depth of knowledge, laying inside Islam is fantastic. It's not just religion - this is the way of life. I think the mistake made by ordinary people is that they make equal sign between Islam and people - arabs, tadjicistans, tatars, world terrorists - you name it. And that's a huge mistake. To live in this world you have to use your own head. In Islam, if you lived a day without makimg a step towards to be a better human being means you lost the day. But this implies a struggle - nothing is easy and you have to make efforts. And this is totally different with - "we like to masturbate - we need religion that allows us doing so! And doctors say it's good - so why bother?" And yes - "the holy scriptures" regulate every tinest kind of thing in human life, so that no parts are missed. But to understand even what is written you have to struggle to understand. Not easy way but easy and rewarding at the same time.

rafikThreads: 21 Posts: 740 Joined: Jun 22, 06	Edited by: rafik Dec 9, 07, 07:36 / #
Quoting: Dooday Dooday you are lucky that you converted from christianity to islam not the other way round.the christians are very forgiving.there is a story of a girl who was a bit unlucky to be born muslim http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/09/nmusli m109.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 9, 07, 07:50 / #
Quoting: Dooday Hi. I'm a Polish male who converted to Islam. Hi. If you converted from Islam to Christianity they would probably kill you. I'm not going to do that of course but... well, let's say that I find converting from one religion to another generally weird and in this case I completely don't see a reason why Islam would be more attractive than Christianity... And If that's "I had to convert to be with her" then why is that always Christians, who had to do It in mixed relationships ?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Dec 9, 07, 07:56 / #
Quoting: Dooday I was getting so annoyed with the anti-Islamic sentiment and generalizations. Giving examples of fundamentalist Islam such as in Afghanistan is really unfair. Uhh... ? How is that unfair ? The level of "fundamentalism" is much bigger in Islam than in other religions. Besides Christian fundamentalists (unlike Islamic) are in vast majority of cases not danger to others. Maybe better compare treatment of Christianity in Islamic countries and treatment of Islam in Christian countries before you write about "anti-Islamic sentiment".

worklinkThreads: 1 Posts: 22 Joined: Dec 6, 07	Dec 9, 07, 08:13 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ I completely don't see a reason why Islam would be more attractive than Christianity This is doesn't have anything with "attractivness" - you just feel one day what is wrong and what is right. If you are not burn muslim, you have to study subject first. To do so, you have to be at least interested in religions and compare them - then you will have questions and will try to find answers. attractive or not attractive - who cares if you're trying to find a truth? Quoting: Grzegorz_ And If that's "I had to convert to be with her" then why is that always Christians, who had to do It in mixed relationships ? 'Cause no muslim woman can't marry a man who are not muslim. Man can take Christian as wife but the head of family has to be Muslim, with pure heart and thoughts.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw Dec 9, 07, 08:24 / #
Quoting: worklink 'Cause no muslim woman can't marry a man who are not muslim. I assume you mean can and not can't. If so. Here is why Quoting: Grzegorz_ If you converted from Islam to Christianity they would probably kill you. A religion ruled by men I think. Quoting: Dooday She respects my wishes and I could not be happier. Do you respect hers ? Or do you point out where she is wrong ?

cubicThreads: 4 Posts: 72 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Dec 9, 07, 11:21 / #
Quoting: osiol If you're looking for rules and regulations, a good place to start is, I think, Leviticus. Aha. And from the compassionate, loving, caring, forgiving New Testament, take a look at Acts 5:1-11 -- a grisly warning to fraudsters everywhere!

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Dec 9, 07, 13:54 / #
Quoting: bellzii obey his orders in sincerity so that you may feel peace in your heart and soul. Does this include a rape victim sentenced to 90 lashes ? Obviously not.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 9, 07, 08:27 / #
Quoting: worklink muslim woman can't marry a man who are not muslim. Very tolerant religion indeed...

cubicThreads: 4 Posts: 72 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Dec 9, 07, 09:33 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ If you converted from Islam to Christianity they would probably kill you. Certainly one interpretation of the relevant verses is that apostates should be killed. Not all Muslims accept that interpretation, of course, but enough do to create a serious problem for many ex-Muslims, even those living in Western countries. At the very least, they would need to live a lie, and pretend that they are still believers. To come out openly can be very dangerous. Here is a story of a woman who renounced the Muslim faith to escape being forced into an arranged marriage when she was 16. She's been in hiding for more than a decade, and is now living under police protection. Imam's daughter in hiding after her conversion to Christianity sparked death threats

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 9, 07, 09:49 / #
Her father arrived at her home with 40 men and threatened to kill her for betraying Islam. "I saw my uncle and around 40 men storming up the street clutching axes, hammers, knives and bits of wood," she said. "My dad was shouting through the letter box, "I'm going to kill you", while the others smashed on the window and beat the door. But Islam is the religion of peace ! LOL !

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,972 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Dec 9, 07, 09:58 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ But Islam is the religion of peace ! LOL ! agree.. thats why my anger got the best of me few times.. I am learning more and more and its not making a whole lotta sense .. or is this yet another misinterpretation of it.. thats the usual excuse..

cubicThreads: 4 Posts: 72 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Edited by: cubic Dec 9, 07, 10:00 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ But Islam is the religion of peace ! Indeed. There may also be a "family honour" dimension to this case, in that she refused to accept an arranged marriage. That alone could be enough for her to receive death threats from her male relatives, even if she didn't renounce Islam. And this practice also occurs among Hindus. But clearly it doesn't help that one influential interpretation of Islam sanctions the killing of apostates, if they do not return to Islam. Added: "A study this year found that 36 per cent of British Muslims between 16 and 24 believe those who convert to another religion should be punished by death." Scary, if accurate.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,972 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Dec 9, 07, 10:11 / #
Quoting: cubic in that she refused to accept an arranged marriage. I used to think ok, this is the way it is for some countries, I know now that its the MAN who makes the decisions on what he sees or does with religion. growing up, I always wondered, but now its clear,, and I dont think even the good man upstairs would forgive all the misinterpretations going on .. because thats whats going on. its not ok to hurt someone because they choose to live the way they want.. just because a father gives life to his children doesnt mean he has to rule and live their life for them.. each lives their own lifes.. and we choose the good or bad path and its not culture , its a excuse to use something thats supposed to be religious as the scapegoat to kill or hurt something because they cannot come to terms with their own anger and they make it up as they go... thats my interpretation of it..

cubicThreads: 4 Posts: 72 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Dec 9, 07, 10:18 / #
Quoting: Patrycja19 thats my interpretation of it I agree. I suspect that one of the chief attractions of Islam for young men is that it can be used to sanction the subjugation of women. A ready-made excuse, as you say.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Dec 9, 07, 11:01 / #
If you're looking for rules and regulations, a good place to start is, I think, Leviticus. Some of these rules are actually quite good (although often ignored, even by people who profess to be religious) and some of them are pretty stupid. In the Islamic world, some of the more idiotic rules that had been ignored in many places for a long time seem to be making a return, whereas too many people of all religions seem to be ignoring the more straight-forward ones about respect for other people.

bellziiThreads: - Posts: 30 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Dec 9, 07, 13:26 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ Her father arrived at her home with 40 men and threatened to kill her for betraying Islam. "I saw my uncle and around 40 men storming up the street clutching axes, hammers, knives and bits of wood," she said. "My dad was shouting through the letter box, "I'm going to kill you", while the others smashed on the window and beat the door. Why is it always people are just throwing misconceptions or just trivial subject. Why dont u ever give it a fair judgment. research , ask then conclude, not just pass on information u heard or found that may have no solid source. Why not have interfaith discussions , other than just throwing some nonsense information

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 9, 07, 13:28 / #
Quoting: bellzii Why dont u ever give it a fair judgment Excuse me... what should be a fair judgment of 40 men trying to kill a woman because she changed religion... ?

bellziiThreads: - Posts: 30 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Dec 9, 07, 13:39 / #
well who said that this is true , have u seen it happen. News can be misleading cant it

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Dec 9, 07, 13:39 / #
Quoting: bellzii Why not have interfaith discussions , other than just throwing some nonsense information Now is your chance. Please begin.

bellziiThreads: - Posts: 30 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Dec 9, 07, 13:40 / #
just like 9-11 , have u seen that video on the u tube , they just said ohh its those muslims..and this video explains everything

bellziiThreads: - Posts: 30 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Dec 9, 07, 13:44 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw Now is your chance. Please begin Thank you for allowing me, well i can tell you what islam means , its submission , surrender to the almighty lord who created everything , obey his orders in sincerity so that you may feel peace in your heart and soul.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 9, 07, 13:46 / #
Quoting: bellzii well who said that this is true , have u seen it happen. News can be misleading cant it You may read about thousands of similar cases, you want to tell me that they all are lies ?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 9, 07, 13:47 / #
Quoting: bellzii just like 9-11 , have u seen that video on the u tube Ahh... I see... Probably about grand conspiracy of neo-conservatives and Zionists...

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Dec 9, 07, 13:50 / #
Quoting: bellzii just like 9-11 , have u seen that video on the u tube , they just said ohh its those muslims..and this video explains everything I don't need a video from youtube. The whole world watched what happened on TV.

bellziiThreads: - Posts: 30 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Dec 9, 07, 13:52 / #
well lets set all these things aside and see what is the teaching of that religion and then judge? isnt that fair