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Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland?


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z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07
  Jul 30, 08, 10:04 /  #
yehudi:
If the Arabs can accept that Israel is here to stay and want to create a middle eastern union, I'm all for it. But like you say, we have a long way to go.

I don't think it's gonna happen. For Israel to survive as a Jewish state they have to continue their current policies against Arabs living within Israel's borders. If they stop and opt for democracy instead then Israel will not survive as a Jewish state. So it's either democracy or permament state of war.

IMO, about the only, albeit slim, chance to prolong Israel's Jewishness would be if all Jews from around the world moved to Israel. That won't happen either, and for one simple reason - Israel cannot survive economically and thus militarilly on its own and without foreign... ahem... aid.

MrBubblesThreads: 13
Posts: 768
Joined: Nov 13, 07
  Jul 30, 08, 11:31 /  #
yehudi:
killing some soldiers and kidnapping and then murdering two others. Hizbollah was the only military force in south lebanon and we attacked them in retaliation and did our best to destroy their military power.

Well, the kidnapping of two soldiers, which was first reported to have happened on Lebanon's side of the border, did provoke the invasion, yes. However do you really believe that the resulting invasion that killed 1000 Lebanese and did millions of damage to property and infrastruction was at all within any proportion? No.

yehudi:
I mentioned Wroclaw/Breslau specifically as an example of a city that Germany lost because of a war they started. The arabs had Gaza and "west bank" till 1967, and the only reason they lost those areas was because they started a war in 1967 to wipe us out.

Indeed it is interesting that you chose Wroclaw as an example. At the end of WW2 Poland lost a large expanse of unprofitable farmland in the East and gained the industrial, coal-rich Silesia - quite a result for an ambitious country in the 20th century! Didn't Israel gain land and water supplies as a result of the 1967 war? Are you going to give that back like the UN keeps asking you to?

yehudi:
Tough luck. Next time be happy with what you got

Quite...
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07
Edited by: z_darius   Jul 30, 08, 22:39 /  #
MrBubbles:
Indeed it is interesting that you chose Wroclaw as an example.

yehudi simply chose to ignore the fact that Wroclaw was Polish before Germans got hold of it. So in fact his statement bears little weight, as Germans didn't lose anything. They just failed to hold on to what wasn't theirs in the first place. Lucky bastards got to keep Berlin though.
yehudiThreads: 1
Posts: 871
Joined: Jul 27, 08
  Jul 31, 08, 04:27 /  #
z_darius:
yehudi simply chose to ignore the fact that Wroclaw was Polish before Germans got hold of it.

To the Germans Breslau was a German city. Yet no Polish goverment would think of giving it to Germany, even in the peaceful EU, since it was lost to them in a war that Germany started. Similarly, Whatever land the Arabs lost was the result of a war that they started. So why should Israel give it to them? And we're not talking about some peaceful EU situaiton here. We all saw what the Arabs did once they got control of Gaza - constant rockets on civilians in Israel proper.
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06
  Jul 31, 08, 05:35 /  #
Grzegorz_:

Spankin:
is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland?


NO ! End of topic.


OK... I wasn't serious... It is safe... you may come... just not too many of you...
SwiteziankaThreads: -
Posts: 525
Joined: Jun 17, 08
  Jul 31, 08, 05:59 /  #
Yesterday I was out with two Jewish-looking Jews (beards, kippahs, tzitzits) in the centre of £ód¼. We passed a lot of dresiarze and nobody payed attention to those guys. Maybe it's getting safer here?
MrBubblesThreads: 13
Posts: 768
Joined: Nov 13, 07
  Jul 31, 08, 07:55 /  #
z_darius:
yehudi simply chose to ignore the fact that Wroclaw was Polish

No it wasn't. Check your history books.

yehudi:
, Whatever land the Arabs lost was the result of a war that they started.

Well, that's not strictly true either. They lost their land (and it's good to see that you agree that the land was theirs) originally because of the 1947 UN plan. The land lost after the 1967 war (the first blow was struck by Israel by the way) has yet to be returned, despite a number of UN resolutions condemning Israel.

What happened at the King David hotel by the way? Wasn't this an act of Jewish terrorism? Could it be said that Israel was founded on terror? Shock!
MatyjaszThreads: 2
Posts: 1,786
Joined: Jul 20, 06
  Jul 31, 08, 11:39 /  #
MrBubbles:
No it wasn't. Check your history books.



Although I doubt if there were many Poles in Breslau at the end of WWII it was once a Polish city. No doubt about it.
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07
  Jul 31, 08, 11:59 /  #
MrBubbles:
o it wasn't. Check your history books.


I have. Have you?

yehudi:
Whatever land the Arabs lost was the result of a war that they started. S


It's all a question of how far back in time we go.

Jews were out of the area as a Jewish state for almost 2000 years. And even when they came to what is now Israel, it wasn't exactly an empty space a few thousand years ago. Israelis did quite a bit of ethnic cleansing of their own before they were able to settle there. I guess in today's terms it is sometimes referred to as crimes against humanity.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07
Edited by: Administrator   Jul 31, 08, 12:24 /  #
z_darius:
I have. Have you?


No you haven't or you would have known that:

Wroclaw history

The first permanent settlers in Wroclaw were the Slavic Slezan tribe, who built a stronghold on the island of Ostrow Tumski sometime in the 9th century. (Ostrow Tumski is no longer an island since an arm of the river Odra was filled in 1810). Later this settlement was absorbed into Czech territory from where the name Wroclaw is thought to have been derived - after a Czech leader by the name of Wrocislaw. It wasn't until around 990AD that Prince Mieszko I, of the Piast dynasty and founder of the Polish state, seized control of Wroclaw and incorporated the region of Silesia into Poland.

z_darius:
Lucky bastards got to keep Berlin though.


How generous of you!
What do you want to do? Expelling all those millions non-Poles like you did in Breslau?

Matyjasz:
Although I doubt if there were many Poles in Breslau at the end of WWII it was once a Polish city. No doubt about it


It's all a question of how far back you want to go, isn't it???
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07
Edited by: Administrator   Jul 31, 08, 12:31 /  #
Thanks Admins...you cutted the important rest so here it is again:

Please check the rules about quoting the messages.

in 1336, the last of the Piast Princes died and the duchy of Silesia was annexed to Bohemia - despite the efforts of King Casimir III of Poland to hold onto it. His failure to do so meant that it was six hundred years until Wroclaw was returned to Polish hands.

Wroclaw, or Prezzla as it begins to be known as, continued to flourish under Bohemian rule and in 1387 gained admittance into the Hanseatic League, a powerful conglomeration of trading cities (think of it as a medieval version of G8!). The winds of change picked up again in the 16th century when King Ludwig died in battle, leaving no heirs, and the Bohemian estate elected Duke Ferdinand, of the Austrian line of Habsburgs, as King. Now Wroclaw was under Austrian rule.

The early 17th century saw a marked downturn in fortunes for Wroclaw, as both the Thirty Years' War (1618-48) and the plague took their toll on the city - indeed this period saw the population reduced by half. However when the warring factions of Europe eventually signed the Treaty of Westphalia and brought an end to the fighting, it was business as usual for Wroclaw and an economic and cultural revival began.

The next chapter in the city's colourful history began in 1741 when King Frederick the Great II seized Lower Silesia and brought it under Prussian rule. It was he who officially gave the city its German name of Breslau (or Prezzla), although it had been used for many centuries before by the large ethnic German population. Wroclaw spent the next two hundred years in German hands and by the end of the 19th century it was the third largest Prussian city behind Berlin and Hamburg, and began to be heavily industrialised.


It was polish for about 300 years...for far longer it was NOT polish but bohemian, austrian and german and inhabited mainly by Germans!
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07
  Jul 31, 08, 12:48 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
No you haven't or you would have known that:

I wrote it was Polish before it was German. Your post doesn't prove otherwise.

Bratwurst Boy:
How generous of you!

Oh, don't mention it.

Bratwurst Boy:
What do you want to do? Expelling all those millions non-Poles like you did in Breslau?

What are you smoking?
I didn't expel anybody from anywhere, except for my cat from my bed.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07
Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Jul 31, 08, 12:51 /  #
It was polish BEFORE it became Bohemian and Austrian and in the end German.
(And far BEFORE it was polish for mere 300 years it was inhabited by germanic and slavic tribes!)

...poor cat though....
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06
  Jul 31, 08, 16:34 /  #
OK... but the topic is about antisemitism in Poland...
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07
  Jul 31, 08, 19:17 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
It was polish BEFORE it became Bohemian and Austrian and in the end German.

actually, it was first bohemian, and in the end it is Polish yet again.

Berlin is next :)

Grzegorz_:
OK... but the topic is about antisemitism in Poland...

seems like that topic does not offer a whole lot of material for discussion after all ;)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07
  Jul 31, 08, 19:59 /  #
z_darius:
Berlin is next :)


Please do!

(...as I move back to Breslau!l)

:)

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