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KRUS - Farmer's Insurance Question and Help


scorpioThreads: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Nov 15, 07 		Edited by: scorpio   Sep 14, 08, 06:51 /  #
Hi,

I have been living in Poland for 6 years and hold legal citizenship, a Polish passport, and a Dowód Osobisty. I own a farm which contains over 4 hectares of arable land and I am legally a farmer here. Both the "Księgi wieczyste" (Official Title / Deed Registry for Property Ownership) and my contract show that my property is a farm.

Question: I wish to start making payments to KRUS (the Agricultural Social Insurance Fund) starting in 2009. Each quarterly payment consists of two parts - insurance and pension. The average quarterly payment for a single farmer with no spouse or children comes out to be about 260 zloty. I have owned my farm since 2002 and have never made any payments to KRUS since, for it is voluntary. I also have never benefited from KRUS in any way, not using it for any medical reasons (dentist or doctor). Some of my friends who are farmers have given me two different versions of my required payment if I wish to start making payments to KRUS in 2009: (1) Start making regular quarterly payments from 2009, (2) I am required to pay from the first day I owned my farm (2002 in this case), so payments in arrears must be made.

What is the correct law on this? If I wish to start making payments to KRUS, am I required only to make payments from 2009 (the day I wish to start insurance and medical benefits), or am I required to make payments from the first day I owned my farm (in 2002) ? Is anyone familiar with this? I appreciate your opinion and response. Thanks.
Grzegorz_Threads: 80
Posts: 6,104
Joined: Nov 16, 06 		  Sep 17, 08, 17:32 /  #
I'm not sure but KRUS is not really voluntary. If you work legally in Poland, you must have an insurence, so If you are actually producing something on that land and officially sell that then (unless you also work somewhere else or run a non-agro business and then pay ZUS) you must pay KRUS. So If you haven't paid ZUS (as an employee or a business owner) for these years and were officially selling meat, fruits or whatever you are producing then probably yes, you will have to pay KRUS for these years with penalty rates and maybe some other sh*t. But that's just my opinion.
helen1Threads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 3, 09 		  Feb 3, 09, 16:01 /  #
This is exactly my situation. I'm curious to know if you have figured KRUS out yet. If I have been paying my land taxes but not my KRUS payments(& have not worked anywhere else) does it mean I just don't get medical benefits and I don't get retirement benefits. Or does it mean no benefits of any sort & no counting towards retirement AND that I MUST make up the back payments?
Grzegorz_Threads: 80
Posts: 6,104
Joined: Nov 16, 06 		  Feb 3, 09, 17:57 /  #
I checked that and looks like everyone, who owns more than 1 hektar przeliczeniowy of farming land and doesn't pay ZUS (as an employee or a business owner) MUST pay KRUS.

There could be some special cases but looks like the one above is a general rule.
scorpioThreads: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Nov 15, 07 		  Feb 4, 09, 02:03 /  #
Grzegorz_:
I checked that and looks like everyone, who owns more than 1 hektar przeliczeniowy of farming land and doesn't pay ZUS (as an employee or a business owner) MUST pay KRUS.

This isn't true according to what I heard. I recently spoke to a KRUS representative and they told me a farmer in Poland only has to pay for it if they 1) Want to be insured, and / or, 2) Wish to have a farmer's pension at the age of 65 years old. The two components or KRUS (insurance and pension) can be either paid for individually, or combined. So, it is optional. If a farmer doesn't pay KRUS, he/she simply won't be insured or be receiving a pension in the future.

KRUS must be paid from the time you had title to your property if you wish to become eligible for it.
helen1Threads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 3, 09 		  Feb 4, 09, 15:12 /  #
Scorpio,When you say the 2 components of KRUS can be paid for individually,do you mean I can just pay for the health insurance part for example?(As long as I'm not paying ZUS?) Would you mind sharing who the KRUS representative was who told you this? I would like to contact someone at KRUS who knows what they're talking about. So far they keep repeating to me that if you have minimum 1 hecter you must pay your KRUS. And that both conponents must be paid.
Guest   Feb 11, 09, 17:51 /  #
Well,today I called the Gdansk KRUS office & they told me that if a person isn't paying ZUS & has at least 1 hectare,they MUST pay KRUS.
Scorpio,I'm sill wondering what rep gave you your info. I suppose you've found out what I just stated by now & that's why you haven't responded
scorpioThreads: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Nov 15, 07 		  Feb 11, 09, 18:10 /  #
Guest:
if a person isn't paying ZUS & has at least 1 hectare,they MUST pay KRUS.

Again, I disagree. Many friends and neighbors of mine who are farmers and have over 3 hectares of land, never paid KRUS yet, and they dont have ZUS. They never have been contacted by either KRUS or ZUS on the matter, and never got penalized for it. Insurance isn't obligatory in Poland, just like it isn't in most countries. If you want a pension or to be insured, then you pay it. If not, then don't. I pay it because I would like to have a medical plan and get a pension. It's your decision. If you can find Polish Law applicable to this and provide a link, please do so.
dougal   May 13, 09, 00:59 /  #
I think generally people want to pay KRUS since it is considered good value and would happily not pay ZUS which they regard as a swindle. As far as I am aware if you are paying ZUS they won't let you change system if you have an income that is non-agricltural. If you are not insured then you should probably go to the KRUS office and ask them, they cannot cut your head off for asking a theoretical question. They may ask you to make the back payments I don't know, but then on the other hand you will be able to retire in 6 years if you want and meanwhile are entitled to a few weeks a year in a sanatorium for free. If you don't have insurance and need a doctor etc then you could have a problem. KRUS costs 293 zl per quarter as a opposed to almost 800 zl per month.
helen1Threads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 3, 09 		  Oct 22, 09, 20:40 /  #
Well dougal,I have been to the KRUS office and they did almost bite my head off! Probably because I was asking so many questions. I also called several KRUS offices. They all said the same thing:If you own more than a hectare & aren't paying ZUS then you must pay KRUS. Not only that, but you must backpay for all the time you didn't pay KRUS yet owned your land. They also said insurance is obligatory in Poland.A lawyer made me a copy of the rules.The rules say you pay KRUS if your a farmer. A farmer,in the rules, is stated to be one who raises & then sells what they produce. This seems to be the clincher,though the KRUS office people never told me so. I don't want to have to take a lawyer with me next time I enter the KRUS office. Has anyone managed not to have to backpay? In my case it would be quite a substantial amount,so I appreciate any input anyone may have.
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