Linux, Unix, and Open Source in Poland

benszymanski:

The nice thing about Linux is that you can pretty much customise anything and everything. Don't know what linux you tried, but I run Ubuntu (hardy heron) and the graphics look fine to me. I changed it anyway to look more like Windows XP just so my wife found it more familiar to use.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Jan 25, 09, 11:59 / #
ukpolska: Still, the fact remains that it is a problem in connecting Linux networks with Vista ask any IT worker I am one. No issues with connecting Vista to Linux and the other way around. The only issue in this scenario there is Vista is not an OS suitable for business. I still buy WinXP for those who need windows. ukpolska: nonsense because I thought the whole idea of Linux was its flexibility in innovation. It is and if you know how Linux developed and then how and what MS "borrowed" from it you know your statements are false. Also, if you only knew the amount of effort MS put into killing Linux. Every time Linux developers knock down all the new hurdles MS is throwing in, they face new challenges. The most serious aren't technical at all. Some of the best minds work on Linux development. The biggest problems is MS's legalese. Moreover, what has been Linux's nature since the very start (modular kernel) is only now about to be use by MS. Windows is a huge blob of unwieldy code that even MS admits is just to hard to manage and maintain. Hence Vista and Windows 7 is MS's following in Linux's footsteps. I won't go into the very internet standards. Luckily they failed and the Internet is still not controlled by them.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Jan 25, 09, 12:18 / #
z_darius: I am one. No issues with connecting Vista to Linux and the other way around. The only issue in this scenario there is Vista is not an OS suitable for business. I still buy WinXP for those who need windows. I find that very surprising and I have to bow to your expertise, however I am just going on our IT's at the University that I work with and friends who are TPSA employees. And I fully support that Vista is a big huge pile of dog poo that was just rushed out for financial reasons; however, I will never change my opinion on Linux which I have tried but detest as a OS, but that is my opinion, and we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 25, 09, 12:29 / #
This seems to be the consensus about Vista. The former lead designer of CityInteractive was holding out for sth better (the brother of my fiancee). However, that was his initial reaction. He has since grown to like it more after getting to grips with it. As a non-technical guy, I think it boils down to two things. Firstly, practicalities. My mum, to this day, uses Lotus Pro. It's a dated integrated package but she finds it very user friendly. This is a major factor. Secondly, expectations. Technical guys like my brother would find more faults than I ever could. He is looking for different things than laymen. I might do a class on this as my student has just written a book on Linux and various applications. I'm a novice, knowing only the most basic functions. I got a first class for IT at Uni but it was only a module. So, thanks for the info guys. Much better than dismissing it outright which some resort to :(

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Jan 25, 09, 12:54 / #
ukpolska: I will never change my opinion on Linux I don't think this is a statement worthy of an open minded person in an academic environment. I, for one, cannot make such statement about anything. I may fall in love with Windows one day if they get it right. The only sure thing in life that's certain is change. Seanus: As a non-technical guy, I think it boils down to two things. Firstly, practicalities. My mum, to this day, uses Lotus Pro. It's a dated integrated package but she finds it very user friendly. This is a major factor. You touched upon the biggest problem with Linux. It;s not about how difficult it is to learn it, but how hard it is to unlearn Windows. As an ESL teacher you will have noticed that for sure. English is easy. So is Polish. The problem is not the new language, but the old one that interferes in the learning process. My daughter, far from being a computer geek, has been using Linux for 10+ years now. Since she was 9 years old. She asked for WinXP last Summer. No problem. I gave her WinXP. Two months later, just about when she was go go back to school she asked me to install Linux back on her laptop. She finds Windows confusing, unfriendly and unstable. She doesn't understand the update and installation processes under Windows, and she much prefers Suse's way of doing this. A few clicks and the system is up to date. A couple more and a new app is installed. She also uses OpenOffice as her exclusive office software, since the time it was called Star Office 5.1. I use OpenOffice to fix corrupted MS Offcie documents such as doc or ppt. As per her words, she has work to do and has no time for tinkering with all those malicious pieces of software that she suddenly realized exist in the Windows world. Ask any Mac user. They will look down on Windows and Linux, even though Mac OS is based on a somewhat common root - BSD. Actually, so are some important parts of Windows' internals.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 25, 09, 13:05 / #
Dead right. You often go with what you know. I think it was the English chess player, Nigel Short, who once remarked, "familiarity breeds confidence in all positions" (or was it the Swedish porn star? LOL). My mum doesn't want to venture elsewhere. The key is, never profess to be an expert. Almost every teacher had a teacher at some point. The mentor generations.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Jan 25, 09, 13:13 / #
z_darius If you had taken the full quote... ukpolska: I will never change my opinion on Linux which I have tried but detest as a OS you would have seen that I have tried it and based my decision on that. I just don't like the feel of it, the graphics look as they have been done in photoshop by a two-year-old. I am sorry if I hurt your 'professional' pride and don't agree with you, but I am not going to agree with someone... just because, and a person such as yourself being a 'open minded morel person' should understand this.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Jan 25, 09, 13:20 / #
ukpolska: you would have seen that I have tried it and based my decision on that. I have no problem with your reasons, but I find it odd that you assume this is the end of it. Linux development is not complete. Your decision is. ukpolska: just don't like the feel of it, the graphics look as they have been done in photoshop by a two-year-old. That is different. I don;t like the feel of Mac. I'm OK with Linux and Windows. As for the graphics, I'm not sure what you're refering to. ukpolska: I am sorry if I hurt your 'professional' pride and don't agree with you I am not the owner of Linux. I am a user and a happy one. I will neither win or loose regardless of what your approach to Linux is. The fact remains, it is a reliable and solid OS, and what's more, you and I would be unlikely to even have this chat here had billgates and the likes had their way.

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Jan 25, 09, 15:02 / #
z_darius: I'm OK with Linux and Windows. As for the graphics, I'm not sure what you're refering to Agreed, Linux works well for me and many others. It is very good as a desktop, and the graphics are just fine. Linux is not only intended for server purposes. Linux and Open Source are becoming popular not only in Poland, but in all of Europe. Once more applications are ported for it, that will gradually cause erosion in Microsoft's market share. It's the quality applications that keep Windows going, and not the Operating System itself. Windows contains a bloated registry, something not present in Linux. How about free built in quality firewalls? Linux has that as well. The Kernel (heart of Linux) is updated several times a month and is easily customized and integrated into the Linux distribution. New drivers and file systems are in constant development (Netbook, Wireless, Ext4, Btrfs). How often does Windows beccome updated? My hope is that one day in Poland, Linux will become even more popular than it is now. Local Polish city and town government adaption of Linux sets a good example for individuals to follow. Numerous private firms in Kraków and Warszawa that I know of have already made the change.

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Jan 26, 09, 03:42 / #
ukpolska: Thanks Ela, but I will have to kindly decline as almost all translators use SDL TRADOS in Poland and I cannot dictate to translators who have been using these tools for years to suddenly change to something as they perceive as inferior and VERY rarely used. Why does it matter what 'other' translators use? I was suggesting that your firm use OmegaT, and not other translation firms. If your reason is because you have clients or fellow translator firms that share and pass on work to your firm, and SDL Trados exports in their proprietary TTX file format, (and OmegaT cannot handle that, yet), the solution is vey simple. You simply request that those who use SDL Trados to export their translation files in the TMX format, which is a standard format for all CAT software. Just because other translation firms you may deal with use SDL Trados doesn't mean your firm must use it. There is plenty of material relating to this scenerio on the internet. If I'm correct, the initial price of SDL Trados is around $700, and upgrades also run for several hundred $? ukpolska: In fact before you mentioned this program I had never heard of it in eight years of working here. If you never heard of OmegaT in the 8 years you have been working here, then how can you even say or assume that OmegaT is 'inferior and very rarely used" without actually ever hearing of this software? This doesn't make any sense at all. On the contrary, OmegaT is well known among translators and is quite popular.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Jan 26, 09, 03:51 / #
ela_lawyer: On the contrary, OmegaT is well known among translators and is quite popular. Prove it!!! Because I know what I am talking about here and not one of my translators has heard of it, and one of the biggest translation agencies in Poland Skrivanek will not use it because it is unproven and is little known in Poland. 4. Conclusion / Opinion On OmegaT, the TM offers very few good matches and OmegaT unfortunately lacks the tools to compensate for that. It can not be configured to meet specific needs, and the glossary function is poor. To develop into a mainstream tool, OmegaT will have to implement better glossary functions, develop subsegment matching and create other functions to compensate for the lack of matches. There is room for improvement in the appearance of the program. OmegaT should also have a simple routine to work on Trados segmented files and produce them if needed. www.your-translations.com/omegat.php

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Jan 26, 09, 07:20 / #
What? Taking WB's advice and lightening up. These are just words thrown over a forum. On a serious note, it's good to read some real debate and discussion. Keep up the good work all. Well, off to play backgammon and Scrabble :) Nothing like a good edit :)

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Jan 26, 09, 10:00 / #
Our Eastern neighbor, Russia, is now planning to implement a national Linux based Operating System to be used as an alternative to MS Windows. All Russian schools are expected to switch to Open Source by the end of 2009. Mentioned in the same article is news that 3,000 U.S. schools have already signed up to switch over to Open Source. That amounts to 20,000 computers and more on the way. I'm sure you will eventally see similar, mass movements toward Open Source in Poland on a larger scale than has already taken place. The world economic situation only provides more incentive to lean towards FOSS (Free Open Source Software).

ElsshaThreads: 1 Posts: 152 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Edited by: Elssha Feb 5, 09, 07:42 / #
you'll love us for it ^_^ though just so you know, i have wine installed, but got used to openoffice to the point that i deleted the MSoffice I had installed that vid is old, too... pre vista launch if I recall right (when vista was going through beta, like win 7 is now) Also I use Amarok to deal with my ipod (full intergration) without having to use Itunes

Rafal_1981	Feb 9, 09, 20:48 / #
Ubuntu desktop apparently scares Microsoft [url=http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10159100-16.html][/url]

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Jan 26, 09, 06:23 / #
ukpolska: Prove it!!! The review and link you have provided is extremely outdated as the author mentions: "Please note that this review is now a little dated and some aspects have changed. I will try and update it in a few days." The author of the review you provided hasn't updated it since (approximately) October 14, 2004. You will find the same review here along with the date and author's name (same one). Ukpolska, using such an outdated review isn't objective at all. Software changes constantly and gets updated. You provided a software review which is over 4 years old. The latest stable release is version 1.8 from 03 November 2008. Now, please look at this review, dated April 11, 2008, about OmegaT written by a professional translator. Excerpt: - "...this software is fast, and not just because I’ve recently had some speed issues with other tools. OmegaT’s processes (segmenting a source file, compiling target files, pulling up fuzzy matches) are so fast that you almost don’t realize they’re happening; in one case I actually clicked “Create Translated Documents” again because I didn’t realize that OmegaT had taken only a few seconds to compile the translations in the 15-file project I was working on. Other translators with different needs may have other opinions about OmegaT, since my use of TM is largely for my own productivity rather than because my clients request it, so issues such as exchanging TMs with other translators (which OmegaT can do) are not very important to me. If you’re looking for a new or additional TenT for your office, I highly recommend OmegaT; even if you just test it out, it’s free, it’s easy, and it’s fast!...I love it, and as far as presentations and spreadsheets, it does the best of any tool I’ve used- for free!" Not bad for Open Source CAT software. Again, do a search for this software and you will see how many professional certified translators do use it. I'm not saying it's more popular than Trados, but it seems quite good. Why do you keep on mentioning what other firms are using? Aren't we talking about your firm? What difference does it make if one firm uses Trados, and another uses something like OmegaT? They both share a standard file format for importing and exporting translation files. Isn't it at least worth a try, to see how Open Source translation software compares to proprietary? If you don't like it, simply uninstall it.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Jan 26, 09, 06:59 / #
Ela I will spell it simple for you...... give it up!!! You bludgeoning me into using it will never work and it's kind of disturbing for a lawyer in your fanaticism over this...end of please!!! I already said I do not wish to take you up on this and you should respect this. And by the way this quote I gave you is from ProZ.com Translation Article Knowledgebase, which is the translators forum and is used by all translators in discussing problems and it funny that this is the only review that they have, strange wouldn't you think for a program, which you say is very popular.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Jan 26, 09, 07:10 / #
Still, a very technical debate. Well conducted by all sides :)

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Jan 26, 09, 07:15 / #
Seanus: You asked her to prove it and she tried to do just that. She's merely attempting to have a discussion and present her side. Stop being like a schoolboy, ukpolska. Here you go again what business is it of yours may I ask, you say you don't wish to be a moderator but you are always moderating with your unwelcome opinions. Nice edit jeezzee

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Jan 26, 09, 07:37 / #
ukpolska: I just don't like the feel of it, the graphics look as they have been done in photoshop by a two-year-old. The nice thing about Linux is that you can pretty much customise anything and everything. Don't know what linux you tried, but I run Ubuntu (hardy heron) and the graphics look fine to me. I changed it anyway to look more like Windows XP just so my wife found it more familiar to use.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Jan 26, 09, 08:31 / #
benszymanski: The nice thing about Linux is that you can pretty much customise anything and everything. Don't know what linux you tried, but I run Ubuntu (hardy heron) and the graphics look fine to me. I changed it anyway to look more like Windows XP just so my wife found it more familiar to use. You are too nice in life as well as with the wife eh Ben lol Nice touch with the changes :)

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Jan 26, 09, 08:45 / #
ukpolska: give it up!!! Is it common for you to resort to insulting others when you have no answers to questions? i attempt to answer, politely, all questions aimed at me. Why can't you do the same? I'm really surprised your 'fanatic' comment wasn't quickly edited out like other comments were.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Feb 3, 09, 21:52 / #
The problem is you won't earn much developing for linux.. sad fact but a fact nonetheless. On the other hand you can indulge yourself in writing apps in vi and wearing poky t-shirt with a penguin. And Mono doesn't even support .NET 3.0

ElsshaThreads: 1 Posts: 152 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Feb 4, 09, 01:04 / #
ukpolska: I just don't like the feel of it, the graphics look as they have been done in photoshop by a two-year-old. out of the box, maybe... as a majority of linux distributions caters first and foremost to people who want speed vs effects. However, with a few tweeks you can have amazing graphics. Go online to find themes that the OS asks if you want to install as soon as you DL them (wow, just like windows... except that it asks, first) and the options are limitless first half is vista... thereafter it's ubuntu with an add-on (now I hear you don't even have to install it, just go to preferences ans switch these on... in what amounts to the ubuntu version of control panel, in a pulldown menu) I started using ubuntu just as hardy came out... I installed it on a laptop and still the only thing I had to hunt down was a driver for my built-in camera. I'll admit that part was a pain... but yeah. Seriously though, the multiple desktops alone (an out-of-the-box feature) make it far easier to work on than windows where you need to hunt for programs through window upon window install WINE and poof... even office works on linux

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Feb 5, 09, 00:57 / #
Elssha: install WINE and poof... even office works on linux You buggers, I am almost interested now and might try it out at the weekend :)

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Feb 5, 09, 11:19 / #
Maybe we will see, I tried open office before and didn't like it and I guess office 2007 is one product that MS have got right and as long as 'WINE' works then great. I have been using MS Word since 1989 and I like and are used to the functions in word, open office is not an option for myself as the translators that I work with use tradus and open office doesn't recognize the data marks. Besides that, I have always had conflicts with format changes from open office to MS word, be it table position or something and I cannot take the chance with my customers, as one mistake can cost me money. So yeah thanks for the heads up on wine, but I need to be sure 100% first before I start using it full time. One thing I am impressed with at the moment, is Adobe Air Apps and they are the sexiest things on the web at the moment as they are so slick and smooth to work with. 60+ Useful Adobe AIR Applications You Should Know Adobe® AIR Applications Wiki I guess my fav out of these is RichFLV RichFLV allows you to read and edit FLV data. You can cut FLVs, convert the sound of the flv to mp3 and convert flv to swf. I came across this a few months ago when I was searching for a FLV editor and this is just the coolest one you will find... so simple to use as well.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Feb 10, 09, 16:53 / #
Linux and OpenOffice on a hybrid tablet PC both run really well. Not!

ElsshaThreads: 1 Posts: 152 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Edited by: Elssha Feb 18, 09, 07:17 / #
Harry: hybrid tablet PC both run really well forgive me... is that the computer in a touchscreen thing (aka, the complete waste of money)? If you're going for something that gimmicky (sorry, but I've tried it, that thing is just not practical), you sir shouldn't try linux. Oh, and yes, it can work... you just gotta do a lot of work yourself vs getting a nice package that all you have to do is DL and install for it to work. Once that is done, a quick google search did show programs available for said gimmick... as well as 'proof' of a working version

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,159 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Feb 18, 09, 12:01 / #
Elssha: you sir shouldn't try linux I think Harry will take your advice on this one for change lol P.S. I think I would be really piszed off if someone wrote all over my computer with a permanent marker :) And I suggest you read the comments on Youtube as this proves bugger all lol

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Feb 18, 09, 18:30 / #
Elssha: forgive me... is that the computer in a touchscreen thing (aka, the complete waste of money)? It is the one with the touchscreen but it isn't a complete waste of money. Not for my needs anyway. Elssha: If you're going for something that gimmicky (sorry, but I've tried it, that thing is just not practical), Depends on what you mean by practical. If like me a person can not use a keyboard other than a split ergonomic one, using touchscreen for entering data is by far the most practical choice, Elssha: you sir shouldn't try linux. Damn right I shouldn't: it doesn't work properly on my machine. Or at least not all the features on my machine will work with it. Elssha: Oh, and yes, it can work... No it can not. Elssha: you just gotta do a lot of work yourself vs getting a nice package that all you have to do is DL and install for it to work So either I can quickly and easily use something which works properly and which the machine was designed for or I can use something which might be better but which will take a lot of messing around and will never work properly with my machine? Hmm, let me think about that for a while....

ElsshaThreads: 1 Posts: 152 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Feb 19, 09, 01:28 / #
ukpolska: P.S. I think I would be really piszed off if someone wrote all over my computer with a permanent marker :) And I suggest you read the comments on Youtube as this proves bugger all lol thus the quotes on the proof... though the indicators on the top and left rulers kinda negate the whole perm marker bit... didn't read the comments, no