Linux, Unix, and Open Source in Poland

frd:

Well..to be more precise there's only one linux kernel; )

frd:

You are contradicting yourself :)

ela_lawyer:

uses the Linux Kernel to function.

ela_lawyer:

C++ is my favorite programming language.

szarlotka:

I'm intrigued to know how come a lawyer has such in depth knowledge of IT matters. That's a rare combination.

frd:

there's only one linux kernel; )

frd:

There's matlab for Linux ; )

frd:

Linux would be probably much more popular if it supported more games that it actually supports

frd:

That's the problem with Linux, it's hard to approach, you can spend hours on installing it, if you don't have another pc plugged into internet, it can be really hard to go through the installation process.

frd:

It depends really, I remember that there are types of packet flood attacks that can end as a DoS that only Linux is prone to

ela_lawyer:

ela_lawyer

Elssha:

there's only one windows,

Elssha:

Actually, according to my friend (gamer + programmer by profession, with siblings working in MS and HP), the only reason MS is still afloat (for the most part) is that the graphics libraries used by most high-end comp games aren't available on linux and because on a whole Apple sux for serious games. If all three sys had the same games MS would have nothing to offer.

Elssha:

Linux doesn't open any file automatically. (...)

frd:

By saying incorrect to my first sentance you therefore through it stated that there are many kernels

frd:

said: You are contradicting yourself saying "INCORRECT, THERE IS ONE LINUX KERNEL."

ela_lawyer:

frd:
Well..to be more precise there's only one linux kernel; )

Yes, one Linux Kernel. However, a Linux distribution such as OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, etc. uses the Linux Kernel to function. On top of the actual distribution, you then have the thousands of applications and desktop environments, which are all source compiled binary files.

frd:

You are messing with my brain:/
I hope it was not your intention, to forget what you typed there before :)

PolskaDoll:

All of this still connects to: Linux, Unix, and Open Source in Poland does it?

frd:

editing your post and playing dumb later is just faulplay

frd:

Sorry PolskaDoll, we kind of got carried away.. I've wasted my time answering somebody who was just teasing me. You can delete all of my posts on this page..

frd:

I said it because ukpolska said there's not many scientific apps for linux, so I actually mentioned this great piece of code, well known around the world in favour of linux.

ela_lawyer:

PolskaDoll, it would be a good idea to delete all postings from #90 and beyond, because they do not related to Poland at all.

PolskaDoll:

It's interesting stuff for computer buffs :) but lets try to keep it relevant to the uses of the software and operating systems in Poland and where is can lead to in the future. There is no doubt that Microsoft has made some errors recently and people are searching for other options but are those options available in Poland? If Poland surges ahead and uses other options other than those that Microsoft provide will it be more useful for them or will it hinder Poland because other countries still rely so much on Microsoft?

benszymanski:

whilst we are on the topic of Linux in Poland can anyone tell me if there is a linux alternative to the programme called "Płatnik". This seems to be the only official programme for doing ZUS forms. They gave me an install CD for it at my local ZUS office (or online here http://www.platnik.info.pl/ ) but it seems to be Windows only.

benszymanski:

Yes I probably could use wine, but if I have to emulate windows I might as well just boot windows to start with, hence why I still keep a copy installed on one PC. As a web developer I also need to use internet exploder to check my websites render OK (although I use firefox exclusively otherwise)

frd:

Linux <argh> ; ) And they are closing torrent sites, that will be a nice punch to the open source community..

Rafal_1981:

One word: Usenet (not so popular and not so simple as bit torrent, but fast enough and still evolving)

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Feb 26, 09, 23:13 / #
frd: Well..to be more precise there's only one linux kernel; ) Yes, one Linux Kernel. However, a Linux distribution such as OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, etc. uses the Linux Kernel to function. On top of the actual distribution, you then have the thousands of applications and desktop environments, which are all source compiled binary files. For example, you have the distribution (Fedora) which uses the Linux Kernel, then you have your desktop environment (KDE), and as many applications (binary files) as you wish to run on top of that. There are many components and not just one.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Feb 26, 09, 23:16 / #
You are contradicting yourself :) There is still ONE linux kernel.. what was incorrect about my statement?

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Feb 26, 09, 23:20 / #
frd: You are contradicting yourself :) Am I? Where?

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Feb 26, 09, 23:27 / #
ela_lawyer: uses the Linux Kernel to function. not "kernels", one Linux kernel, ONE LINUX KERNEL, one linux kernel to find them and in the darkness bind them, in the land of Torvalds where open source apps lie.. what was incorrect about my statement?

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Feb 26, 09, 23:40 / #
frd: not "kernels" Please show me where I said "kernels", with an "S" ? Also, show me where I am contradicting myself?

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,349 Joined: Feb 20, 07	Feb 26, 09, 23:40 / #
ela_lawyer: C++ is my favorite programming language. The true OO bigots won't like that choice. Mind you we can ignore them as they'll be huddled in the corner making small talk;) I'm intrigued to know how come a lawyer has such in depth knowledge of IT matters. That's a rare combination.

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Feb 26, 09, 23:45 / #
szarlotka: I'm intrigued to know how come a lawyer has such in depth knowledge of IT matters. That's a rare combination. I hold a major in Finance and a minor in Information Technology at the undgraduate level, and at the graduate level I specialized in Law and studied many more programming languages, using the Unix environment. I'm a Lawyer with a very strong IT background.

ElsshaThreads: 1 Posts: 152 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Edited by: Elssha Feb 26, 09, 23:51 / #
frd: there's only one linux kernel; ) there's only one windows, in those terms. XP would be a distribution of windows (or the desktop environment, not actually sure on that one) frd: There's matlab for Linux ; ) I work for a lab doing neuroimaging research and we do all our stats on that program. This is at the University of California, and the neurologist heading the program has mentioned needing to learn command prompt due to his past superiors wanting research done on linux because it had greater computing power and could come out with specialized medical programs sooner. We also use FSL (adapted to work in windows, but natively a linux program) to work on our images as well. Linux in research is a reality, whoever said open source programs can't be used for research. frd: Linux would be probably much more popular if it supported more games that it actually supports Actually, according to my friend (gamer + programmer by profession, with siblings working in MS and HP), the only reason MS is still afloat (for the most part) is that the graphics libraries used by most high-end comp games aren't available on linux and because on a whole Apple sux for serious games. If all three sys had the same games MS would have nothing to offer. frd: That's the problem with Linux, it's hard to approach, you can spend hours on installing it, if you don't have another pc plugged into internet, it can be really hard to go through the installation process. well, you should always install when you have another comp that already has int access in case something goes wrong. It was one of the first things my friend told me. However, Ubuntu ran internet out of the box, while the XP required tons of drivers we had to scout on the net to work (my laptop came with vista), so actually I had linux on there in under 1/2hour, another couple hours were spent figuring out why xp hated my comp and making it accept the dual boot. frd: It depends really, I remember that there are types of packet flood attacks that can end as a DoS that only Linux is prone to Linux doesn't open any file automatically. you have to run it (or a program you run needs to run it). The only time it would open it automatically is if you installed a program (gave a program permission) to open a certain type of file automatically... and even then it usually still asks. It's always that it DL's something, then a window pops up (this is if you click to install something, even official) asking if you okay its installation and so on.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Feb 27, 09, 00:25 / #
ela_lawyer: ela_lawyer Sweet mother of god.. Ok, here it goes, as for a first grader. I said: There is one kernel. You said: Incorrect, there are many distributions using linux kernel (one kernel). I said: You are contradicting yourself saying "INCORRECT, THERE IS ONE LINUX KERNEL." You said: Where am I contradicting bla bla" I said: Not "kernels" but one kernel. By saying incorrect to my first sentance you therefore through it stated that there are many kernels ( not actually stated mkey?). That's why I said what I said. Sorry but if that's not clear enough then, well let's forget about it, sorry if you feel insulted by the "You are contradicting yourself" part. I'm too tired to drag this any longer. :) Elssha: there's only one windows, Hey Elssha it wasn't a part of any argument, common, it was just a comment on ukpolska comment on Ela's comment ;D "ukpolska: Here you go again getting wound up over a computer program" you guys are just making a downward spiral from what was probably a slight irony by ukpolska at the beginning ;) so I don't see the point in adding this "windows is" statement there.. Later you quoted my matlab for linux.. in a way as I was stating against Linux.. I said it because ukpolska said there's not many scientific apps for linux, so I actually mentioned this great piece of code, well known around the world in favour of linux. Elssha: Actually, according to my friend (gamer + programmer by profession, with siblings working in MS and HP), the only reason MS is still afloat (for the most part) is that the graphics libraries used by most high-end comp games aren't available on linux and because on a whole Apple sux for serious games. If all three sys had the same games MS would have nothing to offer. Yeah, I mostly think in the same way, that good graphic libraries or an updated directx library for linux would probably attract lots of people. But I still think there very good apps for Windows available. Elssha: Linux doesn't open any file automatically. (...) Of course Linux is a really safe system, it has it's pros, but still it has it's flaws. People tend to think that Windows is full of bugs (which after 3 sp's isn't that much of a problem now) and Linux is a stronghold, which actually isn't true. That's why I brought that example - that there are situations and security aspects in which Windows will prevail ;) and Linux won't.

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Feb 27, 09, 00:44 / #
frd: By saying incorrect to my first sentance you therefore through it stated that there are many kernels No, I never stated there were 'many kernels'. I always said 'one kernel'. Now, read carefully our entire exchange (below), in full: ----------------------- Ela_lawyer: "Yes, one Linux Kernel. However, a Linux distribution such as OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, etc. uses the Linux Kernel to function. On top of the actual distribution, you then have the thousands of applications and desktop environments, which are all source compiled binary files." Frd: "You are contradicting yourself :) There is still ONE linux kernel.. what was incorrect about my statement?" PAUSE - It is here you are making a false claim of contradicing myself. Just read the last two statements by myself and you Frd. I said, "Yes, one Linux Kernel", and you then came out with your comment. It doesn't explain on how I am contradicting myself. Ela_Lawyer: "Am I? Where?" Frd: "not "kernels", one Linux kernel, ONE LINUX KERNEL, one linux kernel to find them and in the darkness bind them, in the land of Torvalds where open source apps lie.." PAUSE - Again, I did say "one Linux kernel"....so what statement of mine are you even correcting? Ela_lawyer: "Please show me where I said "kernels", with an "S" ? Also, show me where I am contradicting myself?" Frd: "Sweet mother of God..." ----------------------- The conversation speaks for itself. I never stated "many kernels", only "one kernel" in that entire exachange. Find the quote of mine which reads, "INCORRECT, THERE IS ONE LINUX KERNEL." Where is it? It does not exist on this entire thread.

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Apr 4, 09, 10:54 / #
Here is a great piece of news! The government of Hungary plans to go 50 percent Open Source, a big leap from propietary software. Some quotes: - "The Hungarian government has announced that it will be modifying procurement rules to allow open source to be used in public sector organisations. Previously, procurement rules had apparently named vendors such as Microsoft and Novell." - "It will be the first time that open source solutions will gain the same equal status as proprietary vendors in centralised public sector tenders." - "This recognition of open source by the Hungarian government will hopefully also encourage the private sector to investigate the potential of non-proprietary software to cut cost during these tough economic times." Government of Poland, are you listening? Make the announcement and the move.

Rafal_1981	Apr 24, 09, 14:26 / #
Ubuntu 9.04 ready for download: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download List of new features: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904overview

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Apr 25, 09, 16:16 / #
Rafal_1981: One word: Usenet (not so popular and not so simple as bit torrent, but fast enough and still evolving) Don't feel sorry for these fools as they have delivered the final nail in the coffin for BT Make no doubt about it, the "boys" have been found guilty of serious criminal offences. Unless and until any higher court overturns that judgement on appeal (which looks extremely unlikely), they are simply out and out criminals. It's not an opinion, it's now official. And as criminals are liable to account for the proceeds of their crimes, even in Sweden, those convicted of a crime are likely to forfeit any assets implicated in that crime. Even if they have no money, which very few (including the courts) believe for one second, they have a website, a name, a server farm and so forth, all of which were used in the commission of that crime. And sequestrating the proceeds of crime is a simple job of work for any forensic team, let alone the combined efforts of the international law enforcement agencies involved. God help them if they find any evidence of money laundering or false accounting, you will be able to add 5 years to those sentences. Having been found guilty of a serious crime, that sequestration process will not be delayed by any pending appeal, not to mention a civil recovery action that has doubtless already been filed by the IFPI, the MPAA and so forth. The Pirate Bay is a commercial pirate website. The police have investigated, the courts have upheld that to be the case and the operators have been convicted. These people who are claiming to be broke now have been coining it in from advertising, promoting scam download sites (downloadnova & usenext for goodness sake!) and donations from simple minded kids who believed their pocket money was going to be used to buy the old sea fort (Sealand) or an island where these fools could pretend they were kings of all they surveyed. Not to mention selling tee shirts, mugs, mouse mats and other tat that nobody would normally look at twice. The courts have estimated their income at around £1m a year, hence the level of their fine. Another issue is, why does Oded Daniel so-called Targetpoint employee have a 37% share in the Pirate Bay and living in Canada in excel from Israel. Their position was and always has been indefensible. They operate a third of the world's trackers, they've thumbed their noses at DMCA take-down notices and they have mocked the system whilst trying to claim the defence of safe harbour (or "mere conduit" as it is known under Eu law - better known as "the Google defence"). Unfortunately for them, Google do not provide trackers or facilitate uploading. neither do they mock take down notices and 99.9% of their content is legal anyway! Their bravado and cockiness may well have amused many kids, but judges aren't kids. they aren't easily fooled and they aren't exactly renowned for their sense of humour. The only people who stand to gain from this, apart from the lawyers, will be the likes of Rapidshare and newsgroups. A troubling day in the history of filesharing, and a day when the name "The Pirate Bay" will go down in history as probably having precipitated the beginning of the end of BT. It would be amusing if it weren't so tragic.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Edited by: frd Feb 27, 09, 00:49 / #
John: There is one apple. Jane: Incorrect. John: So there are many apples? Jane: No. John: Aha! Got you! If you said incorrect to one apple, then there are probably many apples? Or no apples? In the same time you state incorrect that there is one apples and that there ain't many apples... so you are contradicting yourself... Jane: No! <John stabs himself with a keyboard> you speak cplusplusish and I'm speaking csharpish.. we need a parser and a translator..

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Feb 27, 09, 00:53 / #
frd: said: You are contradicting yourself saying "INCORRECT, THERE IS ONE LINUX KERNEL." Again, please show me in this entire thread where I stated, "Incorrect, ...". Where is it? By making this claim, you are being dishonest and twisting the truth. Once again, where is that exact statement? Please show me. At least, provide the thread #?

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Feb 27, 09, 01:02 / #
ela_lawyer: frd: Well..to be more precise there's only one linux kernel; ) Yes, one Linux Kernel. However, a Linux distribution such as OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, etc. uses the Linux Kernel to function. On top of the actual distribution, you then have the thousands of applications and desktop environments, which are all source compiled binary files. Ok I think I might know where's the problem, you changed your post!!! :D It was: Incorrect. Smth smth many distributions such as OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Gentoo, etc. uses the Linux Kernel to function. On top of the actual distribution. You said INCORRECT to that quotation of my post! You are messing with my brain:/ I hope it was not your intention, to forget what you typed there before :)

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Feb 27, 09, 01:11 / #
frd: You are messing with my brain:/ I hope it was not your intention, to forget what you typed there before :) Not true. Let me tell you, I have extensive experience using Linux and Unix for many years now. I am able to customize and compile a kernel from scratch, and I currently have 'almost' the latest version. Running "uname -r", I get the following output: "2.6.28.3" This kernel allows for the Ext4 filesystem. I converted all of my ext3 filesystems to the latest ext4. With my background, experience, and education, I know very well about Linux Kernels and beyond. IT is my speciality along with Law and finance. Nobody is playing with your brain. I did not say "incorrect".

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Feb 27, 09, 01:14 / #
All of this still connects to: Linux, Unix, and Open Source in Poland does it?

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Edited by: frd Feb 27, 09, 01:20 / #
Yeah that's why I said twice.. what was incorrect about my statement? I don't care how much knowledge you have in that subject. Besides what you just said is irrelevant to the little chit chat we just had. What dragging law and finance has in common with the topic? The thing is, that editing your post and playing dumb later is just faulplay. It's not about linux anymore, just courtesy and the lack of it. Sorry PolskaDoll, we kind of got carried away.. I've wasted my time answering somebody who was just teasing me. You can delete all of my posts on this page..

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Edited by: ela_lawyer Feb 27, 09, 01:30 / #
PolskaDoll: All of this still connects to: Linux, Unix, and Open Source in Poland does it? I would suggest deleting any posts 'after' #89 (from #90) since they do not relate to Poland. frd: editing your post and playing dumb later is just faulplay Again, nobody is editing anything or playing dumb. If you want to play it safe, you should reply to a post after 15 minutes to make sure nothing was indeed edited. There are many people on the forums that edit and re-edit their statements for typos and mistatements. It is foolish to reply too early to any posting. I mentioned my Law and Finance credentials because those were my 'majors', and IT was a minor, so it was relevant to the conversation. It's really funny when someone is going to try to explain to me about the Linux kernel, and I have over 5 years experience using it. I'm well aware about the Linux Kernel and can hack a Linux kernel inside out. I know it like the back of my hand. What is your education and experience? How long have you used Linux? It would be interesting to know.

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Edited by: PolskaDoll Feb 27, 09, 01:32 / #
frd: Sorry PolskaDoll, we kind of got carried away.. I've wasted my time answering somebody who was just teasing me. You can delete all of my posts on this page.. It's interesting stuff for computer buffs :) but lets try to keep it relevant to the uses of the software and operating systems in Poland and where is can lead to in the future. There is no doubt that Microsoft has made some errors recently and people are searching for other options but are those options available in Poland? If Poland surges ahead and uses other options other than those that Microsoft provide will it be more useful for them or will it hinder Poland because other countries still rely so much on Microsoft?

ela_lawyerThreads: 7 Posts: 95 Joined: Nov 28, 07	Feb 27, 09, 01:36 / #
PolskaDoll, it would be a good idea to delete all postings from #90 and beyond, because they do not related to Poland at all. And no, I was not 'teasing' Frd. I only do that to men I'm attractive to. :-)

ElsshaThreads: 1 Posts: 152 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Edited by: Elssha Feb 27, 09, 01:49 / #
frd: I said it because ukpolska said there's not many scientific apps for linux, so I actually mentioned this great piece of code, well known around the world in favour of linux. i wasn't disagreeing with you, but there was too much of the exchange about it being relevant in only a small city, etc. Waaay too much to figure out what to quote, so I quoted you to add extra example showing that linux is also widely used in US for research purposes (like medex, thus quoting you) more or less same thing with the windows thing, seeing as there seemed to be confusion on the linux kernal thing (figured that might help explain it...)

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07	Feb 27, 09, 01:52 / #
ela_lawyer: PolskaDoll, it would be a good idea to delete all postings from #90 and beyond, because they do not related to Poland at all. True, they don't but they at least have to do with the operating systems involved (plus a bit of arguing ;) but lets move on and discuss PolskaDoll: It's interesting stuff for computer buffs :) but lets try to keep it relevant to the uses of the software and operating systems in Poland and where is can lead to in the future. There is no doubt that Microsoft has made some errors recently and people are searching for other options but are those options available in Poland? If Poland surges ahead and uses other options other than those that Microsoft provide will it be more useful for them or will it hinder Poland because other countries still rely so much on Microsoft? plus the other stuff that previously did relate to these OS's in PL.. :)

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Feb 27, 09, 10:08 / #
whilst we are on the topic of Linux in Poland can anyone tell me if there is a linux alternative to the programme called "Płatnik". This seems to be the only official programme for doing ZUS forms. They gave me an install CD for it at my local ZUS office (or online here http://www.platnik.info.pl/ ) but it seems to be Windows only.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Feb 27, 09, 13:55 / #
benszymanski: whilst we are on the topic of Linux in Poland can anyone tell me if there is a linux alternative to the programme called "Płatnik". This seems to be the only official programme for doing ZUS forms. They gave me an install CD for it at my local ZUS office (or online here http://www.platnik.info.pl/ ) but it seems to be Windows only. Not sure Ben, but if you can read Polish you find some info here http://linuxnews.pl/koniec-monopolu-platnika-czy-aby-na-pewno/ Edit Here you go :) http://www.janosik.net/ 2nd Edit Elssha mentioned WINE earlier, just wondered if "Płatnik" would work under that programe?

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Feb 27, 09, 15:52 / #
Thanks - will have a read of all that. Yes I probably could use wine, but if I have to emulate windows I might as well just boot windows to start with, hence why I still keep a copy installed on one PC. As a web developer I also need to use internet exploder to check my websites render OK (although I use firefox exclusively otherwise)

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Feb 27, 09, 16:26 / #
benszymanski: Yes I probably could use wine, but if I have to emulate windows I might as well just boot windows to start with, hence why I still keep a copy installed on one PC. As a web developer I also need to use internet exploder to check my websites render OK (although I use firefox exclusively otherwise) Of course sorry I was in the middle of something when I was writing to you and the WINE bit was a bit pointless really.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09	Apr 24, 09, 18:19 / #
Linux <argh> ; ) And they are closing torrent sites, that will be a nice punch to the open source community..

Rafal_1981	Apr 25, 09, 15:56 / #
frd: Linux <argh> ; ) And they are closing torrent sites, that will be a nice punch to the open source community.. One word: Usenet (not so popular and not so simple as bit torrent, but fast enough and still evolving) besides: "Less than a week after The Pirate Bay’s four co-founders were sentenced to heavy fines and a year behind bars, some new information has come to light that may result in the trial verdict being overturned. Turns out, Thomas Norström, the judge who presided over the case, is signed up to the Swedish Copyright Association, which also counts among its members three attorneys who represented the entertainment industry in the trial.(...) The founders of the site were already appealing the conviction but are now demanding a retrial." http://www.techspot.com/news/34403-judge-in-pirate-bay-trial-linked-to -copyright-groups.html