Some questions about running a Hostel in Krakow

SeanBM:

I have to agree with VaFunkoolo, maybe get a job in a hostel first, see how it works.
Krakow would be expensive and for a hostel you would need quite a few rooms meaning spending a lot of money.
I too have always wanted to open a hostel and I do intend to have a hostel somewhere hot beside the sea for my retiring years, meeting people from all over the world.
If you are looking at Krakow, I would suggest also looking at Zakopane, lots of tourism there too, and not far from Krakow.
Check out the Nieruchomosci (estate agents) they will tell you if there are any places to let and what rent to expect.
Good luck

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Jun 15, 08, 04:02 / #
Running a hostel is my dream job...But I dont have an idea about how much capital do I need to be able to start it in Krakow?Not in old Town region but not so far either...renting a suitable place and designing it costs how much?any ideas?

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Edited by: VaFunkoolo Jun 15, 08, 04:21 / #
Not sure this is the best dream to follow unless you know exactly what you are doing and have a very healthy bank balance. There are opportunities in the accommodation market in much of Poland but I don't believe a hostel in Krakow is one of them. Good luck in your ventures but don't throw your money away. PS I ran a boutique hostel in Sopot last summer so have at least a vague idea what I'm talking about

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Jun 15, 08, 04:28 / #
I m just trying to get some ideas here...I think this is the job for me at the same time I can work and have fun...but of course I have to search well before I put money on this business...but let me dream at least for now...and if anybody can tell me the average money needed to start dreaming that will be helpful especially the comments of experienced ones on accomodation business sector are much more important...I m not thinking to buy the Estate coz I cant pay it for sure, is there such possibility to rent it?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 15, 08, 04:31 / #
I have to agree with VaFunkoolo, maybe get a job in a hostel first, see how it works. Krakow would be expensive and for a hostel you would need quite a few rooms meaning spending a lot of money. I too have always wanted to open a hostel and I do intend to have a hostel somewhere hot beside the sea for my retiring years, meeting people from all over the world. If you are looking at Krakow, I would suggest also looking at Zakopane, lots of tourism there too, and not far from Krakow. Check out the Nieruchomosci (estate agents) they will tell you if there are any places to let and what rent to expect. Good luck

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Edited by: VaFunkoolo Jun 15, 08, 04:35 / #
Dream all you want. It's important to have dreams :) Moneywise I would suggest looking at rental values for the type of property you think suitable and then workout what that is going to cost you to cover at least 2 high seasons rent - 18 months minimum plus bills etc is not a bad figure to start with. Then look at renovation costs, fixtures and fittings, staff costs, marketing etc etc etc the list goes on and will add up to a sizable figure.

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Edited by: morella Jun 15, 08, 04:39 / #
SeanBM: I have to agree with VaFunkoolo, maybe get a job in a hostel first, see how it works. Krakow would be expensive and for a hostel you would need quite a few rooms meaning spending a lot of money. I too have always wanted to open a hostel and I do intend to have a hostel somewhere hot beside the sea for my retiring years, meeting people from all over the world. If you are looking at Krakow, I would suggest also looking at Zakopane, lots of tourism there too, and not far from Krakow. Check out the Nieruchomosci (estate agents) they will tell you if there are any places to let and what rent to expect. Good luck Yes Sean I totally agree with u...I like to meet with different people from all over the world, discovering new cultures and people makes me always excited.I can pass my whole life in such business ı think.in fact there is a hostel which is runned by my friends parents in a mountain area in Poland, ı dont remember the regions name at the moment, I may work for them for a while coz as ı heard they were looking for somebody who will work for them coz they r quite old now and need help...I had been in Zakopane once and have fun there, but Zakopane sounds like busy in winter the most, for a season business...May be ı m wrong, ı dont know how it looks there in summer, is it crowded again?And when u compare Krakow and Zakopane which can be more economic for me to start such business?

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jun 15, 08, 04:42 / #
Maybe this is an opportunity: 2 Hostels for Sale in Poland Posted May 15th, 2008 by HostelsThe Stranger Hostels, with 2 hostels in Krakow and Wroclaw, Poland, a total of 105 beds, including a bar and a cafe at the Krakow location are looking for a buyer or investor(s). http://www.hostelmanagement.com/sections/marketplace

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Jun 15, 08, 04:43 / #
VaFunkoolo: Maybe this is an opportunity: 2 Hostels for Sale in Poland Posted May 15th, 2008 by HostelsThe Stranger Hostels, with 2 hostels in Krakow and Wroclaw, Poland, a total of 105 beds, including a bar and a cafe at the Krakow location are looking for a buyer or investor(s). http://www.hostelmanagement.com/sections/marketplace Yeah I saw this offer in the internet few hours ago and sent an email to the owner asking how much they demand for the hostel...thank u anyhow for informing

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 15, 08, 04:59 / #
morella: ?And when u compare Krakow and Zakopane which can be more economic for me to start such business? Zakopane is underdeveloped and pricey, I am currently looking for a commercial property in Zakopane and it is difficult. There is a huge amount of people in Zakopane during the summer, mountain walking and drinking amoung other things, mostly Polish people but this is changing. Krakow has a lot more tourists. Zakopane is full of private rooms in people's houses for rent, they are cheap and I have been to a few and they are fine. But I think the place is crying out for something funky, hip or just a bit different. The hostel VaFunkoolo shown is in a great location, not too far away and great transport, Detla street in Krakow, there is no mention of price.

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jun 15, 08, 07:06 / #
If you haven't already come across these sites - Hostel Marketing Hostel Management

JMInteriorsThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Jun 16, 08	Jun 16, 08, 10:31 / #
Morella, I went through this exact exercise last year in krakow and Zakopane so i would be happy to pass on my experience on costs, real estate etc. I've given up that dream for various reasons but still think there is potential in the market. Email me if you like.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 19, 08, 05:04 / #
morella: Sean will that 2777 Euro per month for 9 months be an extra payment? or rent cost is already included in 300K Euro? Can u explain me? Sorry, I do not think I understand the situation correctly. I need more information. What do you get for 300K euros? I thought you got the company, it's assets and the lease agreement with the land lord, paid. The "be paid over a length of time." and the "300K euros" threw me off. But more than likely it would be just the company, it's assets, debts and the lease agreement. So rent would be on top of that. It sounds exuberantly priced. It cost about 3000 Zloty, (less than 1000 euro) to set up a L.T.D. company in Poland. I hope I have not misunderstood the situation again... Where are you from morella?

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Edited by: morella Jun 19, 08, 05:15 / #
Yes ı didnt understand the situation clearly either.I wrote above what the guy said me exactly..I may send him another email for detailed information..I m from Turkey Sean and planning to move Poland max.in 1 year.

marspeter	Aug 24, 08, 06:06 / #
Hi there, I am new in this forum and my eye catched the city of Zakopane. My girl lives there and we are also looking for renting/buying a Restaurant, Bar, Pension or Hotel. So if anybody find something give us a buz. Maybe some partnership will speed-up things. We have 2 more companies already so know how is there.. Greetings, Peter

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Jun 15, 08, 10:50 / #
VaFunkoolo: If you haven't already come across these sites - Hostel Marketing Hostel Management This websites r really helpful vafunkoolo thanks alot...I c there r many unexperienced people looking for advice on hostel business like me at the Forum in that website..so it is nice to know that ı m not alone:)

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jun 15, 08, 10:52 / #
morella: so it is nice to know that ı m not alone:) You are most definately not alone :)

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 16, 08, 14:07 / #
And be sure to give us a shout if you are in the area Morella

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Jun 18, 08, 12:38 / #
I sent an email to to the manager of the hostel which is for sale...here is the answer of the guy '' The asking price is 300k Euro, it is negotiable and can potentially be paid over a length of time. The Krakow hostel is on a 10-year rental contract with 9 years remaining, though it may be re-negotiated in the next few weeks back to a full 10 years.'' so Now Can somebody tell me, I will pay 300K Euro for what? to be able to have the right to rent the estate for 10 years? did ı understand right?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 19, 08, 03:18 / #
morella: I sent an email to to the manager of the hostel which is for sale...here is the answer of the guy'' The asking price is 300k Euro, it is negotiable and can potentially be paid over a length of time.The Krakow hostel is on a 10-year rental contract with 9 years remaining, though it may be re-negotiated in the next few weeks back to a full 10 years.''so Now Can somebody tell me, I will pay 300K Euro for what? to be able to have the right to rent the estate for 10 years? did ı understand right? If I understand the situation correctly, basically the Company is for sale, not the hostel. The company has a 9 year lease agreement. There's no chance of getting the hostel on Detla street for only 300K euro. 2777 Euro rent a month for the next 9 years is what you are looking at. I don't know how many rooms or what the expected profits are, so i do not know if the rent is high or not. If you are still interested, look at the lease agreement.

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Jun 19, 08, 03:59 / #
Sean will that 2777 Euro per month for 9 months be an extra payment? or rent cost is already included in 300K Euro? Can u explain me?

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jun 19, 08, 05:24 / #
SeanBM: 2777 Euro rent a month for the next 9 years is what you are looking at. It seems you have got this figure by dividing 300000 by 9 years to give a monthly rate of 2777, which I suspect is not the case. I imagine that for the 300K you will get pretty much what SeanBM describes - the company complete with its assets and liabilities and a lease agreement with the landlord of the property for which you will have to pay an ADDITIONAL monthly rental etc My experience with looking at buying existing business in Poland consistently come across two key factors which make me lose interest very quickly 1. Info needed to assess the true value of the company doesnt exist or I am looked at like an idiot for asking to see previous years' books 2. Rent due for properties prohibit making any sort of reasonable profit, which is probably why the business is for sale in the first place

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 19, 08, 05:34 / #
VaFunkoolo: It seems you have got this figure by dividing 300000 by 9 years to give a monthly rate of 2777, which I suspect is not the case. Yes I did and I am pretty sure I got it arseways. I was just trying to make sense of it. VaFunkoolo: 1. Info needed to assess the true value of the company doesnt exist or I am looked at like an idiot for asking to see previous years' books Yes, and they can make up any books you want anyway, if they have a clever accountant and a due diligence can often cost more than the company. morella, are you looking for a 10 year rent agreement for a hostel or to buy a place? I see Hotels/guest houses for sale quite often in Zakopane but I am not interested in them. You might also think about Slovakia, they have more mountains and from what I see are more underdeveloped, so you might get a better deal.

VaFunkooloThreads: 7 Posts: 823 Joined: Mar 24, 08	Jun 19, 08, 05:39 / #
SeanBM: Yes, and they can make up any books you want anyway True. But it's more a case of disbelief that I could be asking to see how a business I am interested in buying has traded in the previous years. For me this is essential information but even my Polish business associate looks at my funny when I ask someone to show me these details.

morellaThreads: 11 Posts: 71 Joined: Feb 25, 07	Edited by: morella Jun 19, 08, 06:07 / #
SeanBM: morella, are you looking for a 10 year rent agreement for a hostel or to buy a place? I am planning about a hostel which is rented for the beginning Sean..I dont have enough capital to buy it at the beginning:(

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 19, 08, 06:23 / #
morella: I am planning about a hostel which is rented Ok. Best of luck.

aminzaved	Sep 1, 08, 14:27 / #
Hi is anybodyes are interest buy any hotel or resturent for rent in Torun ? its nice town in now is good time to invest here they are selling some old bulidng on main atraction place in torun , i think ist good time to invest here , if u not ever vist here u can come and vist here this town , if u want some more information u may contact anonto90@yahoo.com

manasraThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Aug 12, 08	Sep 2, 08, 12:07 / #
Allow me to share with you few pionts worth taking into consideration and my opinion on the offer you got. 1- Generally speaking no one invests 100 % of her/his capital in any business endeavor especially real estate and hotels. Even the big players don´t use their capital to purchase a premise sure not hotels. What´s usually done is that you use your capital or portion of it as secured funds to be able to get a loan from a bank or invesment bank. The amount you get this way would allow you to purchase the premise. Then operating teh premise should genarte enough profit to allow you to pay back the bank while such repayment should not exceed 50% of your profit. 2- Many people would caution you not to get into this business. Maybe they are true but if you consider facts like Krakow being one of the most visited city in europe plus a host city for the Europe football Cup taking place in 2012 then having a hostel in teh city would pay itself off easy. There is a shortage of more than 600 1-3 stars Hotels in Poland. 3- I´m within the trasnport business and work closely with hotels and other accomodation providers. It´s quite a challenge to find teh best location with reasonable price but if you manage to do it right such business is very worth doing. 4- Concerning the offer you´ve receieved. Indeed the price is for buying the owenership rights of the premise (hostel) with all commitments associated with it meaning the renting agreement. The current owner doesn´t expect to get the full amount up front. Rather probably in installments. When he says things are negotiable, meaning that when you become the new owner you reserve the right to negotiate the leasing terms with the current renter. If you want the hostel for yourself. You may be able to get but you would have to compensate the current operator somehow. Hope this helps and wishing you a best of luck in making your dreams come true. Should you have further concerns feel free to write me at smanasra@gmail.com Sam

whattar	Jan 23, 09, 10:22 / #
hi morella, if you have some capital ready for the hostel; drop me an email at hatwae007@yahoo.com i have an offer for you in this regards. cheers