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Handguns Not Needed in Poland?

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FargoThreads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 23, 09	Dec 23, 09, 08:19 / #
In Poland is it easy to own a handgun? Im from the states i carry a Glock Handgun just for personal protection and for the highly unlikely situation where i might have to defend myself against an animal. I dont feel like im doing anything wrong. I read alot about European communities and how handguns are not allowed and there is less violence. I wonder if it would be the same in america if we changed our laws?

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06	Dec 23, 09, 08:30 / #
Fargo: I wonder if it would be the same in america if we changed our laws In the states that allow concealed weapon permits, crime has gone down!

FargoThreads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 23, 09	Dec 23, 09, 08:44 / #
sledz: In the states that allow concealed weapon permits, crime has gone down! Hi I have a CCW in the states. i know that Ownership consists of great responsibility. I look at states like California where only police and criminals carry and the average citizen like myself are not allowed. Its sort of scary to me. I was reading this article the otherday about how home invasion was on the rise in European countries also stabbings? Is it the same criminals but different choice of killing tools?

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07	Dec 23, 09, 08:46 / #
Fargo: In Poland is it easy to own a handgun? No , its not at all easy to own a handgun in Poland , not legally anyway , you would need to be a member of a recognised gun club , or prove a dam good reason for having one... I myself used to own several guns back in my home country the UK , untill some nutter went and shot some kids with a gun , and got them all banned there.... I believe in the freedom for responsible gun ownership , but you can,t argue with the figures...In Poland where guns are rare there are very few gun deaths , in the USA where guns are common there are hundreds of deaths every year.... If it makes you feel any better , i have lived in Poland for five years , i have not felt in need of a gun yet..

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09	Dec 23, 09, 18:08 / #
Fargo: Hi I have a CCW in the states. Likewise, I don't leave the house in the states without my browning. Here, I have never once felt the need to carry. Our neighbors to the south in the Czech Republic have the right to carry, but I never felt the need to in the 4 years that I lived there.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Dec 23, 09, 18:14 / #
Fargo: i might have to defend myself against an animal Those furry bunnies and chuipmunks are mean as fcuk. convex: Likewise, I don't leave the house in the states without my browning. Kind of sad really.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09	Dec 23, 09, 18:18 / #
time means: Kind of sad really. It's really sad. Extremely sad actually.

nomaderolThreads: 7 Posts: 1,213 Joined: Oct 18, 09	Dec 23, 09, 18:38 / #
Fargo: i might have to defend myself against an animal. lately, dangerous animals are viruses. swine flu, you know. you need a microscopic gun if you can find one.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Dec 23, 09, 20:19 / #
Even if you join a recognised gun club and finally get a license, you are never allowed to carry it with you in public places. And no, you don't need a gun. Violent crime rate is much lower in Poland than in the US.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,583 Joined: Jul 13, 09	Dec 23, 09, 20:34 / #
convex: I don't leave the house in the states without my browning Where did you live? East Oakland in the Bay Area? South Central in L.A.? ;)

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09	Dec 23, 09, 21:33 / #
TheOther: Where did you live? East Oakland in the Bay Area? South Central in L.A.? ;) NOLA and Dallas.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 23, 09, 21:34 / #
Fargo: In Poland is it easy to own a handgun? Very difficult, for non-citizens I think even impossible... at least legally of course... Fargo: I wonder if it would be the same in america if we changed our laws? Now in America both criminals and normal people own guns, If you make them illegal only the first group will have them... I'm not for much easier access in Poland as people here are not used to that but I don't think that the crime rate depends (nor positively neither negatively) much on the gun ownership rate.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Dec 23, 09, 22:09 / #
Grzegorz_: Now in America both criminals and normal people own guns, If you make them illegal only the first group will have them... Damn dog.. we agree for once.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07	Dec 23, 09, 22:22 / #
When guns are outlawed....only the outlaws will have guns...

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Edited by: scrappleton Dec 23, 09, 22:26 / #
What's more it can probably prevent things like the Holocaust or some Soviet takeover scenario. You only have so many troops that can go door to door rounding up people. It makes it a lot harder if the citizen can defend himself against this abduction. It makes a government think twice.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Dec 23, 09, 22:38 / #
scrappleton: It makes it a lot harder if the citizen can defend himself against this abduction. It makes a government think twice. And that is exactly why most governments are against free access to guns. In Poland the gun control reaches absurdity levels. My father was threatened last year and, because of that, he applied for a gun permit - he went through all the medical tests and formal procedures and after that, at a local police station, he was refused the permit after being told that "meeting all the formal requirements is not enough to obtain the permit" (to me it sounded like they were asking for a bribe and I wouldn't let it go like that, but my father is a peaceful man, so he gave it up). Complete paranoia - a good citizen, honest taxpayer and a calm, tranquil man, who never hurt a fly, can't legally get a weapon after being threatened by some sickf**k :-/

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Edited by: scrappleton Dec 23, 09, 23:46 / #
Torq: Complete paranoia - a good citizen, honest taxpayer and a calm, tranquil man, who never hurt a fly, can't legally get a weapon after being threatened by some sickf*k :-/ I'm sorry to hear that, man. Agree that is ridiculous.. Laws like that can be amended though. Probably Poland will get it together this way. There's obvious dangers in armed citizens but the good outweighs the bad. You would think the EU would encourage responsible gun ownership some of the best if not the best* are made in Austria and Switzerland.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Dec 23, 09, 23:52 / #
scrappleton: What's more it can probably prevent things like the Holocaust or some Soviet takeover scenario. That is often mentioned by the pro-gun lobby but in reality I think It wouldn't do much. Regimes would find a way to disarm people. Torq: "meeting all the formal requirements is not enough to obtain the permit" True. In the end It always depends on a government's employee decision... I am against liberal gun ownership regulations (one of very few right wing ideas I don't support) but obviously It shouldn't be done the way It is now. Requirements should be high (so average Joe won't walk around with a gun he can't use properly) but once they are met, the permission of course should be given automatically.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Dec 24, 09, 00:26 / #
Grzegorz_: Now in America both criminals and normal people own guns, If you make them illegal only the first group will have them. This is the core of the problem. The more guns you have in a society the more violent the criminals will be. When the victims are armed the criminals will use more violence when robbing etc. And it's myth that armed good citizens have a preventive effect on criminals, it has been shown several times that it's the opposite way. We have both American and European research and statistics that confirms this.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Dec 24, 09, 01:03 / #
Grzegorz_: That is often mentioned by the pro-gun lobby but in reality I think It wouldn't do much. Regimes would find a way to disarm people. Sure maybe dog.. and I don't mean it as a criticism of anybody in the past necessarily. Hell, our own MacArthur led troops against our own people in the 30's. However, some Nazis (or whoever) banging on my door I know they're taking me and my kids to die at least you can kill a few of them. Guns could have bought time at the very least. The government must be made to fear the citizenry to a degree. It's a nice precaution for them not to get too arrogant.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07	Dec 24, 09, 08:07 / #
As if to prove a point...one of the forum members has apparently just been shot in his home....I hope plk 123 is ok , and makes a full recovery..

RanjThreads: 27 Posts: 1,286 Joined: Sep 29, 06	Edited by: Ranj Dec 24, 09, 08:15 / #
As it stands right now, he is paralyzed....I don't know if it's permanent, as I am only going by what's been on the news. I haven't spoken with him for several months, but I intend to send some flowers to the hospital. Such a $hitty thing to happen to such a nice man! At least his condition is stable and he still has his life.

RanjThreads: 27 Posts: 1,286 Joined: Sep 29, 06	Dec 24, 09, 08:48 / #
Thanks:)

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Dec 24, 09, 08:53 / #
Ranj: Thanks:) Welcome.. it was stupid of me. They're probably not going to know he's really paralyzed yet. It looks as if they got him help quick too. Maybe there's a chance he won't be paralyzed.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09	Dec 24, 09, 10:46 / #
SzwedwPolsce: The more guns you have in a society the more violent the criminals will be. Like in the UK? Switzerland? The Czech Republic? Jamaica? But in all honesty, if a government has to take guns away from its populace in order to attempt to bring down gun related deaths, it means that the police force isn't doing a good enough job protecting the people in the first place. I think one of the important things to look at in places like the UK is not only the number of gun deaths that are now occurring (and the overall violent crime rate for that matter), but how many people are intimidated by the guy with a gun.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08	Edited by: Babinich Dec 24, 09, 11:50 / #
Between 1995 and 2004, handgun murders in Texas dropped by 18 percent. Gun owners proved to be much less likely than their peers to be arrested for non-violent crimes and violent crimes, including murder. And even though Texas (in 2004) had a population three million larger than when the bill was passed, the overall crime rate was lower in 2004-5,032 crimes per 100,000 Texans, as opposed to 5,478 crimes per 100,000. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Concealed+carry+law+and+crime+in+Texas-a 0144563309 http://utahshootingsports.com/usscstudy.htm http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=18 Our government should place its trust in us, not the other way around. SzwedwPolsce: The more guns you have in a society the more violent the criminals will be. Prove it.

Spaceman77Threads: 3 Posts: 73 Joined: Sep 12, 09	Dec 24, 09, 19:00 / #
sledz: n the states that allow concealed weapon permits, crime has gone down! I don't know where do you get that info... Robberies and home invasions are down. I'm sure that's what you meant. But murders and deaths along with hate crimes had gotten up big time. Specially after hurricane Katrina. Then came the red necks in texas, that began to buy their weapons like crazy to the point that several armory stores had to close for a couple of days. This happen after their paranoia got to the roof when president Obama took office. I live in Houston, Texas and I know what I'm talking about since many of my friends are police officers.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Dec 27, 09, 00:47 / #
Fargo: I wonder if it would be the same in america if we changed our laws? I don't think you can. Second Amendment to the United States Constitution's Right to keep and bear arms. Every American I have ever met thinks this is their right, even my friends from that part of the world see disarmament as a very dangerous thing. Safety is one issue that has been raised but also if the government acted against it's people, this army of civilians could, in theory at least, rise up against them. I don't like Micheal Moore much, I find him to be a sensationalist and anti-American but he still has some very good points that he makes in this documentary. Bowling for Columbine: Getting a free gun when you open an account at the bank. (that's just ridiculous).

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Edited by: scrappleton Dec 27, 09, 03:11 / #
SeanBM Every American I have ever met thinks this is their right, even my friends from that part of the world see disarmament as a very dangerous thing. Disarmament would be extremely dangerous in US at this juncture given the amount of criminals that have guns now. However, one thing that would help is changing certain state's laws concerning gun purchases. In Florida, for instance, one can go into a gun store and purchase multiple weapons at once. Sometimes 10 at a time. These are then just re-sold on the street for a nice profit. It shouldn't be easy to purchase something that kills that easy. A waiting period and background check shouldn't be a nuissance if it saves lives. Having said that, what Europeans don't understand is that guns are an intrinsic part of American culture. Being able to defend your house or person is something EVERY person does have and should have.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08	Dec 27, 09, 12:18 / #
SeanBM: Every American I have ever met thinks this is their right It IS our right. scrappleton: Being able to defend your house or person is something EVERY person does have and should have. Amen...

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