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Warsaw palm tree - interesting or a waste of money?



Rafal_1981 Edited by: Rafal_1981    Feb 27, 2009, 03:17pm /  #
What do you think about a palm tree in the city center of Warsaw?
Do you think this is a waste of money or you found this interesting?






trisha295   Feb 27, 2009, 03:20pm /  #
for sure its nothing interesting.... it doesnt look nice even ...

still_wisher Edited by: still_wisher    Feb 27, 2009, 03:22pm /  #
i think it's intersting for poles .. b/c i dont remmber i saw real palms , or even with good numbers here in poland .. anyway it looks nice:) not like the real ones for sure, polish i know say it's just a shitty stick :)) so it's intersting ;)

SeanBM   Feb 27, 2009, 03:26pm /  #
There are many palm trees in Ireland (Wiki)
No coconuts though
They are nice, they look strange in rainy Ireland.
But I personally prefer monkey puzzle trees, which can also be grown in Ireland but I do not think they are native.
monkey puzzel trees
I like all the weeping willows in Poland, there seem to be a lot.

PolskaMan   Feb 27, 2009, 03:35pm /  #
I acually like it...

Rafal_1981 Edited by: Rafal_1981    Feb 27, 2009, 04:13pm /  #
SeanBM:
There are many palm trees in Ireland

I didn't know that. They look like equisetum of late Paleozoic forests. Very exotic!




Merendis   Feb 28, 2009, 11:11am /  #
It's certainly not a waste of money, it's art! I've seen much uglier, less whimsically and humorously ironic public art in cities.
To me, the installation itself isn't that spectacular to look at, but the fact that it is there is extremely endearing and it puts a smile on my face.

pawian   Feb 28, 2009, 11:49am /  #
I saw this palm last year and it looked much better than in your photos.

k

h

osiol   Feb 28, 2009, 12:15pm /  #
Trachycarpus and Cordyline can grow in the maritime climates of northwestern Europe, possibly even in coastal parts of Norway. Monkey puzzle (Araucaria araucana, which comes from the land of the Araucarians - Chile) which is a coniferous tree prefers a similar climate - wet and grey. Tree ferns such as Cyathea and Dicksonia antarctica, in their native Australian habitats also live in maritime or temperate rainforest climates and can put up with frost and snow, but maybe they're just happier in parts of Europe where winters are mild.

A lot of palms though, can cope with frost, even winter, but probably not a long winter and not a winter where it is wet and cold. I tried growing a Bismarckia nobilis in my garden. It's a gorgeous palm with bluish green leaves. It died early in the first winter here. A couple of former colleagues took a few interesting plants back to Hungary when they moved back, but I haven't heard any news from them.

Sean, I could clear up some of your geological terminology, buy maybe later!

But if you don't try, you won't find out.

Elssha   Feb 28, 2009, 12:21pm /  #
pawian:
I saw this palm last year and it looked much better than in your photos.

maybe it's not liking its new home...

Krakowianka   Feb 28, 2009, 01:39pm /  #
I think it sticks out like a soar thumb. Maybe somewhere else, but not in the middle of Warsaw in my opinion

osiol   Feb 28, 2009, 02:49pm /  #
There are botanical gardens in Poland with glasshouses, maybe one or two big enough to accomodate a really large palm. Surely that would be better, so it could be accompanied by other interesting plants in a setting where it could both be appreciated, and not just wither and die, as I suspect this particular tree will do.

Does it have a name yet?

SeanBM Edited by: SeanBM    Feb 28, 2009, 03:00pm /  #
osiol:
your geological terminology

What are you talking about?.

Wasn't there another thread about palm trees being a grass and walking?.

osiol:
Does it have a name yet?

Hmmm... could be "Bob" but then again I call everything I can not pronounce in Polish "Bob".

osiol   Feb 28, 2009, 03:14pm /  #
Palms are a relatively modern invention in evolutionary terms. Amongst the most recently evolved groups of plants are grasses, daisies and palms. They still somehow have a "prehistoric" look to them, but that may just be our way of looking at exotic tropical species as dwellers in temperate climates.

Flowering plants (that includes palms and grasses as well as all broadleaf trees and shrubs) have only been in existence since the Cretaceous era (I hope I'm getting this right because I'm typing all this from memory), so dinosaurs may well have nibbled on a few flowering plants, but they would have received much more of their nutrition from older groups of plants - conifers, ginkgos, ferns and horsetails.

Conifers are a little more ancient, originating in the Carboniferous era. That was when much of the coal found in Europe was laid down in forests comprising of horsetails (Equisetum) and those other ones I've forgotten the name of. Monkey puzzles and their close relatives (Araucaria spp.) were one of the first groups of conifers to diverge from the rest. When people say these trees look prehistoric, they are, in a way, absolutely correct.

Ginkgos have been around about as long as conifers, maybe longer. Now they are found in the wild only in parts of China, but are very popular as specimen garden trees and also as street trees in Japan. Prehistoric? These things are positively dinosaur fodder. It's remarkable that these things still exist in the world. There should be a few of these in Poland. There should be more... everywhere. I have one in my garden. I want more!

Even more ancient are things like horsetails, ferns (including tree ferns that I mentioned earlier). But these can't be used to make such spectacular street monuments.

That was the horticultural / geological bit, but what about creating impressive monuments?

People these days don't want big statues of great, powerful leaders (or warmongers). Think of all those statues of Soviet leaders and so on. Think even of Nelson on his column in London. He's thought of by some people around the world as a megalomaniac war-criminal. Then dotted around him are various earls and dukes who are almost unheard-of today, but probably killed a great number of people in their times.

You could have some sort of modern art - something that represents something known only to the artist perhaps. I remember seeing something on a plinth that looked like a big pile of sticklebricks. The Lego statue? Nice! Not that I don't think modern art can work well as public monuments. I like Gormley's Angel of the North, for example. But I listen to (well, hear) artists talking about their work and often find myself drifting into a deep sleep. Either you like it or you dont. Either it means something to you or it doesn't.

So how about a big tree? A monument to human acheivement, yet to nature at the very same time. Well, if it dies, that's not a good advertisement for human acheivement or the strength of nature to withstand the forces of humankind. Perhaps it's a monument to global warming, just a little too soon.

Rafal_1981 Edited by: Rafal_1981    Feb 28, 2009, 03:15pm /  #
osiol:
There are botanical gardens in Poland with glasshouses, maybe one or two big enough to accomodate a really large palm

19th century New Orangery palm house

There's another one in Poznan and in Walbrzych and in Zielona Gora and in Lodz and in Gliwice...there is more Palm Houses in Poland I think. And yes, they should be big enough to accommodate a 'really large palm'.

  • 19th century New Orangery palm house in Warsaw
    19th century New Orangery palm house in Warsaw

SeanBM Edited by: SeanBM    Feb 28, 2009, 03:37pm /  #
osiol:
They still somehow have a "prehistoric" look to them, but that may just be our way of looking at exotic tropical species as dwellers in temperate climates.

Ha, so all those dinosaur books and films are inaccurate?.
I used to think bananas grew the other way round, like in cartoons.

osiol:
Monkey puzzles and their close relatives (Araucaria spp.) were one of the first groups of conifers to diverge from the rest.

Apart from actually looking like a tree that'd confuse a monkey attempting to climb it, on further instection they look more like cacti, though guys.

osiol:
Ginkgos have been around about as long as conifers

Are they not conifer then?.
Could you also post pictures about what it is you are talking of because I know very little about plants.
Dilophosaurus amidst Ginkgos
dino

osiol:
Even more ancient are things like horsetails, ferns (including tree ferns that I mentioned earlier)

Ferns are also one of my favorite plants, I remember as a child being told how old they were, I am impressed.
Later the fern was used to describe fractals in chaos theory to me. A triangle in a triangle in a triangle....
hgtrfsetgf

osiol:
Think even of Nelson on his column in London.

We used to have a statue of nelsons column in Dublin on O'Connell street we disliked it so much we blew it up.

osiol:
often find myself drifting into a deep sleep.

Talking about plants used to have the same effect on me.


When I see a palm tree, I think of Miami and estate houses.
They will have to probably spend money on protecting it from the cold of winter?.

Merendis   Feb 28, 2009, 04:08pm /  #
Woah woah woah woah

osiol:
You could have some sort of modern art - something that represents something known only to the artist perhaps. I remember seeing something on a plinth that looked like a big pile of sticklebricks. The Lego statue? Nice! Not that I don't think modern art can work well as public monuments. I like Gormley's Angel of the North, for example. But I listen to (well, hear) artists talking about their work and often find myself drifting into a deep sleep. Either you like it or you dont. Either it means something to you or it doesn't.

So how about a big tree? A monument to human acheivement, yet to nature at the very same time. Well, if it dies, that's not a good advertisement for human acheivement or the strength of nature to withstand the forces of humankind. Perhaps it's a monument to global warming, just a little too soon.

Are we still talking about the tree in Rondo de Gaulle?

It's fake. It IS art, an art installation entitled "Greetings from Jerusalem Avenue" that they just kept there because people like it. Please don't talk about keeping it alive!

sobieski   Mar 1, 2009, 06:00pm /  #
I like it a lot as it is really. Especially with snow on its "leaves".
Warsaw has already a couple of million "patriotic" monuments. It is refreshing to have something completely different for a change.
And it indeed refers to the street on which it is "planted".
Sometimes they take the leaves off in Winter, and then it looks very funny and resembles something else :)
Have no idea if that was the case this year, I seldom venture out so far from Bielany :)

plk123   Mar 1, 2009, 07:05pm /  #
SeanBM:
(Wiki)

oh that is definite proof. crickey. :/
Krakowianka:
Krakowianka

stick with krakow, eh?

osiol:
There are botanical gardens in Poland with glasshouses,

orangeries, yes.. the one in lazienki park has/had nice palms and other tropicals in it.

WooPee   Mar 2, 2009, 01:22am /  #
pawian:
I saw this palm last year and it looked much better than in your photos.

Looks like it's getting bigger.

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