CYWILIZACYJNY?

Ziemowit:

My intentional irony in the remark about Lehman Brothers shows that British-like sarcasm is not easily recognised either in Poland or in the US. Former employees of Lehman Brothers (investment bankers) are really not the the kind of folk to be supported before anyone else in desperate need of help ... Or perhaps my remark does not sound British-like sarcasm at all?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Jun 15, 09, 07:01 / #
Although the dyed-in-the-rule anglophiles may fume, I am coming to believe that the lack of a good adj. such as CYWILIZACYJNY is an innate flaw of the English language. -- Tereny popegeerowskie dotknięta degradacją cywilizacyjną -- Stwierdzono spory brak postępu cywilizacyjnego -- Korzystne zmiany cywilizacyjne są powszedhnie widoczne...etc., etc. -- sproy zaległości cywilizacyjne Anyone know a way to neatly and anttily translate the above?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Jun 15, 09, 07:14 / #
Polonius3: -- Stwierdzono spory brak postępu cywilizacyjnego it was found that there was substantial lack of civilized progress

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jun 15, 09, 07:30 / #
Polonius3: dyed-in-the-rule Dyed in the wool.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Jun 15, 09, 08:08 / #
Indeed. Many dzięks!

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Edited by: Ziemowit Jun 15, 09, 13:09 / #
You should realize that a number of people will be trying to show off with their doubtful eloquence when writing texts in which they abuse words appearing to them as having intellectual "tint" just to make up for the fact that they have indeed nothing interesting to say. The use of the adjective CYWILIZACYJNY in the Polish text you are citing is clearly one of such examples. For instance, the sentence Stwierdzono spory brak postępu cywilizacyjnego sounds rather silly in Polish, can be classified as "new-talk", and is not worth translating it at all. You may well omit the word "cywilizacyjny" in the first three of your sentences without loosing any bit of the sense. By the way, are you a Polish native speaker living in America or an American journalist (this information is shown in "About Polonius3") of Polish origin? [Your reply to this may help answering your posts concerning the Polish language.]

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Edited by: aphrodisiac Jun 15, 09, 13:16 / #
Ziemowit: By the way, are you a Polish native speaker living in America or an American journalist (this information is shown in "About Polonius3") of Polish origin? [Your reply to this may help answering your posts concerning the Polish language.] he is a person who is using the good will of people who translate often for him PF, so he cash his cheques for the work well done:(

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Jun 15, 09, 18:36 / #
Lucky him! Shall I put him on my "black" list then? ... well, at least if he doesn't send part of his remuneration to the fund helping former employees of Lehman Brothers ...

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Jun 15, 09, 19:52 / #
Ziemowit: well, at least if he doesn't send part of his remuneration to the fund helping former employees of Lehman Brothers ... well, would that matter? He is probably building his own empire LOL

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Jun 15, 09, 20:48 / #
Ziemowit: Ziemowit kind of.. by dropping the word in the sentence i translated you actually change the meaning.. there is a difference in progress and civil (or civilized) progress.. whether in polish or english. Ziemowit: Shall I put him on my "black" list then? you always have a choice not to translate.. i tend to do that a lot around this place.. some things i will not translate here..

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Jun 15, 09, 22:39 / #
Well, you decide. My first language was "Polglish": Andzia klinuje flory w ofisie za trzy baki i kwodra...Bojsy się fajtują na sajdłoku...and...kara stoi na kornerze stryty. Since my childhood in a Polish neighbourhood, I have had university training in Polish philology in the US and spent time in Poland studying at Warsaw University. I would rank myself as a near-native speaker of Polish.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Edited by: Ziemowit Jun 16, 09, 15:14 / #
No, it definitely wasn't addressed to you. I thought it was clear enough to whom it was addressed.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Edited by: Ziemowit Jun 16, 09, 15:03 / #
Thanks for the info. Now I know you can be taken seriously ... "Andzia klinuje flory w ofisie za trzy baki i kwodra" is splendid, it was the second time I was reading it, after several hours, that I guessed its meaning in Polish ... My intentional irony in the remark about Lehman Brothers shows that British-like sarcasm is not easily recognised either in Poland or in the US. Former employees of Lehman Brothers (investment bankers) are really not the the kind of folk to be supported before anyone else in desperate need of help ... Or perhaps my remark does not sound British-like sarcasm at all? But, revenons à nos moutons ... "Stwierdzono spory brak postępu cywilizacyjnego" is a sentence that should have never gone to print. First, you shouldn't use words like "spory", which is a typically colloquial word, in writing (you could tell: znaczący, istotny in this context instead). Second, if you contrast such a word with a sort of topmost-shelf expression like "postęp cywilizacyjny", you sound ridiculous, if not stupid. Third, you shouldn't have used the word "brak" which sounds very colloquial here and indicates that something that is not there should be there, which is not true in this sentence as the so-called progress is not spread everywhere by definition. You can typically employ the word "brak" in a sentence like: "W mieście Detroit stwierdzono brak fabryk, w których produkowano by samochody" (these factories should be there in this city known in the world for manufacturing cars, but - my God! - they are not there!) [Please watch out, this is an example of my British-style irony on the present state of the American car industry!!!]

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Jun 16, 09, 15:12 / #
Ziemowit: My intentional irony in the remark about Lehman Brothers shows that British-like sarcasm is not easily recognised either in Poland or in the US. Former employees of Lehman Brothers (investment bankers) are really not the the kind of folk to be supported before anyone else in desperate need of help ... Or perhaps my remark does not sound British-like sarcasm at all? I am not sure if that was addressed to me or to the OP. I did get your sarcasm, so there is not need to go into a long explanations;)