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Archives / 2009 / Genealogy, Ancestry / posts: 25

No documents found regarding my late grandfather? (born in Grajewo)



Ohad   Aug 7, 09, 11:37 /  #
Hello,

I would appreciate your guidance regarding my attempt to find a document/registration of my late grandfather in Poland.

My late grandfather was born in 1911 in Grajewo, Lomza, left Poland in 1928

His father died in Poland when he (my grandfather) was a child.

Unfortunately I don't have any Polish document that was belonged to my grandfather

I contacted the following in Poland but received an answer that no registration/documentation was found regarding my grandfather.

• Civil record office in Grajewo

• Archiwum Panstwowe w Bialymstoku

• State archives in Lomza

• Civil record office of Bialystok


Several comments

• I have the passport of the mother of my grandfather and another brother.

• There are registrations of his late brothers in Poland as well as marriage certificate of two of his brothers. All of them were born in Grajewo. As far as I know he's the only brother with no registration in Grajewo.


Do you have any idea regarding how to proceed?

Thanks a lot!
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 7, 09, 11:40 /  #
You could try the churches for baptisms in Grajewo.
Ohad   Aug 7, 09, 22:14 /  #
Hi,

I forgot to mention that they were Jews. I tried jewishgen.org/jri-pl/jriplweb.htm but haven't found anything there either...
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 12, 09, 12:05 /  #
Ohad:
I forgot to mention that they were Jews.

There was a Jewish cemetary in Grajewo on ul. Bialystocka, but has now been built over but there is a plaque ul Majowa in memory of those who were killed by the Germans - this includes Poles, Jews & Russians. Some say over 5,000 died from there during the war.
I am not saying that he was one of them, but this may help you eliminate possibilities.
You may one of these may have more details for you:-
Littman Library
Taube Foundation for Jewish Life & Culture
Jewish Civilisation Administration.

Grajewo is in the Podlaski area.

If you come over any Polish words, I'll be happy to help
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 12, 09, 12:30 /  #
Ohad:
My late grandfather was born in 1911 in Grajewo, Lomza, left Poland in 1928

I've just realised that Grajewo was handed over to the Russians by the Germans in 1939. So I've done a bit of research.
Lots of its residents were sent off to Siberia (somewhere near the White Sea referred to as far north to the 'White Bears' ). Mainly the were individuals in the army, police, foresters, intelligence service.
The second tranport consisted of the families of those who had gone on the first transport as well as administrators and richer families. They too were sent to the above.
The third wave of tranport went to Kazachstan. Mainly families of the intelligentia, wealthy farmers, administrators, buyers and tradesmen.
With the commencement of the Russian German war, the Germans entered Grajewo on 22 June 1941. In 1943 the Germans killed around 150 of Grajewo population referred to in my previous.
This is a summary of information which I obtained from a Polish website in Grajewo:
www.grajewo.pl
Ohad   Aug 15, 09, 13:14 /  #
Thanks a lot for this info!

You are right! One of the brothers of my grandfather was deported with his wife and kids to Siberia. He was the last one to leave Poland. His brothers (including my grandfather) and sisters left Poland earlier thus survived the WWII.
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 15, 09, 13:29 /  #
Ohad:
One of the brothers of my grandfather was deported with his wife and kids to Siberia

I was quite saddened by the history of this village. It highlights the problems people will encounter when trying to trace their origins.
Grajewo is the Lomza region, but if you haven't had any luck there could it be that he was actually from the town Lomza? There are various organiszations which hold detailed records in Lomza. - It's just a thought.
Good luck with your search.
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 17, 09, 13:05 /  #
Ohad:
One of the brothers of my grandfather was deported with his wife and kids to Siberia. He was the last one to leave Poland.

I've found out that the Premier & Prezydent of Poland (the Kaczynski brothers) were handed a certificate of one of their relatives in who was born in Grajewo. Further digging has revealed that the munical authorities hold all records of birth since early 18th century regardless of faith Therefore you could write to the town Mayor - (burmistrz in Polish) - alternately write a special appeal to the Prezydent Lech Kaczynski (his brother is no longer Premier).
Ohad   Aug 18, 09, 08:30 /  #
Hi,

Thanks again for your advice. Unfortunately, I've already contacted the Civil record office in Grajewo and "Archiwum Państwowe w Białymstoku Oddział w Łomży" and although they had records about the parents of my grandfather and some of his brothers, nothing (including birth registration) was found about him.
Do you have any idea of other places in which his records can be found?
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 18, 09, 12:46 /  #
Ohad:
Do you have any idea of other places in which his records can be found?

Sometimes it's possible to trace through surname so google that. There is this site:
www.genealodzy.pl/modules.php?op...file... which may contain a full list of those in the area. How's your Polish? If you get stuck copy and paste here and I'll help here.
markskibniewskiThreads: 4
Posts: 357
Joined: May 31, 09 		  Aug 18, 09, 13:07 /  #
Saw your post on Polish forums.com was curious what the reply said from the State archives in Lomza? I have heard this is an extremely difficult archive to gain access to as the chief is at the
same time a teacher at the seminary and archive is closed in June-August,
the rest of the year is opened 2-3 hours a day, only 2-3 days a week. It's
necessary to make an appointment before visit.

Although your family was jewish you may still want to try the local church as they often recorded all births not just catholics. You want to try to find out what the proper Roman Catholic parish was for the area and give them a shot.You may try the Stary Luboten archives.
Ohad   Aug 18, 09, 17:47 /  #
Hi,

The best way to contact this archive is by e-mail. Unfortunately, no good news from there: there are records about the parents of my grandfather and some of his brothers but not trace for him…
TheOtherThreads: 5
Posts: 1,583
Joined: Jul 13, 09 		Edited by: TheOther   Aug 18, 09, 18:10 /  #
Ohad:
there are records about the parents of my grandfather and some of his brothers but not trace for him…

Is your grandfather older than his siblings? Maybe your information about his DOB and place of birth is incorrect and he was born in a different parish and/or on a different date. Maybe his parents moved to Grajewo after he was born or his mother stayed with relatives somewhere else to give birth there?
Ohad   Aug 19, 09, 17:30 /  #
My grandfather was the youngest. The idea the his mother gave birth somewhere else crossed my mind as well (according to my family, her husband died when she was pregnant so it seemed logical to me that she might gave birth somewhere else). I checked at the town she was born at, Rajgrod, and nothing was found there either. Also, if she gave birth anywhere in Lomza the records should be found at the Lomza archive.
Do you think it's a good idea if I send my request to all the major archives in Poland?
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 19, 09, 18:03 /  #
Ohad:
Do you think it's a good idea if I send my request to all the major archives in Poland?
Ohad
Guest

Do write to Kaczynski as previously suggested. It's not as crazy as it sounds.
TheOtherThreads: 5
Posts: 1,583
Joined: Jul 13, 09 		Edited by: TheOther   Aug 19, 09, 18:09 /  #
Ohad:
her husband died when she was pregnant...

Then I'm pretty sure that your grandfather wasn't born in Grajewo.

I checked at the town she was born at, Rajgrod, and nothing was found there either

Do you know where the parents and siblings of the mother of your grandfather lived? If I were you I would first check the parishes where the above mentioned persons resided, before contacting the archives.
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 20, 09, 11:38 /  #
Ohad:
to find a document/registration of my late grandfather in Poland.

It's me again! Did your grandfather naturalize in the country where he settled? If he did, all his details may be recorded with the given authority. I'm searching for family in America and am I now having to look into naturalization records to establish whether the ancestor I've found is the one and the same as the person who entered USA. Just an idea.
Ohad   Aug 20, 09, 14:24 /  #
markskibniewski:
Although your family was jewish you may still want to try the local church as they often recorded all births not just catholics

Could you please instruct me how to contact them?

caprice49:
Do write to Kaczynski as previously suggested.

I must tell that everyone (the city council of Grajewo and the people at the Archive of Lomza were very kind, supportive and efficient) so I have no reason to suspect that they didn't give me the full information and that other people can "dig" more information from them, so I'm sure that even if Kaczynski has the time for that kind of request, he'll get the same answer from them. Do you think I should contact him anyway?

TheOther:
Do you know where the parents and siblings of the mother of your grandfather lived?

As far as I know, they all lived in Rajgrod (which I've already contacted)

caprice49:
Did your grandfather naturalize in the country where he settled? If he did, all his details may be recorded with the given authority

Unfortunately no luck here either. The only "proof" of his country of origin and his date of birth was his declaration, no record about his Polish passport with which he must have immigrated is available.

Thanks everyone for your help,

Ohad
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 20, 09, 18:17 /  #
Ohad:
Do you think I should contact him anyway?

What have you to lose, except a bit of time writing the letter. Go for it. Don't give up. My family have been searching in USA for descendents of a relative who went out in 1910, and I've now taken on the task. At times its depressing. Misspellings being the biggest bugbear and a total lack of attention of detail has in our case made it very difficult to research, but one day I was helping someone else and I came across a website ..... But I'm still looking, and believe one day I will get the whole picture.
Have you looked on passenger lists. I don't know where you're based, but most countries have/had immigration procedures - the place of birth and last residence would be on the ship's manifest.
markskibniewskiThreads: 4
Posts: 357
Joined: May 31, 09 		  Aug 20, 09, 22:41 /  #
I unfortunately do not know what the proper Catholic parish was for the Grajewo area but from what I have read it seems he may not have been born there . You may try Radzilow there was a large jewish population in this area in the time period when your grandfather was born and it is only 17 miles away from Grajewo . It is hard to nail down where to look when you are not sure where your grandfather was born? :( I will do additional research and see if I can find something for you.
Ohad   Aug 24, 09, 09:51 /  #
markskibniewski:
It is hard to nail down where to look when you are not sure where your grandfather was born

I'm 99% sure that he was born in Grajewo just like his brothers and sisters. However, since no document was found about him in Grajewo and the fact that his father died when his mother was pregnant made me and others here think that his mother registered him in the town she was born in (because maybe she went to her family there to give birth) but if it was true, we should have found documents in Rajgrod (and also in Lomza archive) But since I have nothing to lose I'm searching in other places as well.

Thanks again,
Ohad
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Aug 27, 09, 16:00 /  #
Ohad:
I'm 99% sure that he was born in Grajewo

There could be an error in the records, so try under your grandmother's maiden name
Ohad   Aug 30, 09, 12:36 /  #
caprice49:
try under your grandmother's maiden name

Hi caprice,
Could you please explain this?

Thanks!
markskibniewskiThreads: 4
Posts: 357
Joined: May 31, 09 		  Aug 30, 09, 15:36 /  #
I know this seems obvious but have you also tried where the husbands family resided. It is possible that she went to live with the husbands family also. I believe Caprice49 was suggesting that since her husband died your grandmother may have or the civil regestry office may have entered the birth under her maiden name since the husband was no longer around.

I don't want to sound negative but I had the same situation where I found all my grandfathers sibling information but not his. He was born in 1886 in the Stary Luboten region and the records for the 1870's and some of the 1880's were lost so I never got his birth registry. It is possible that the records are lost due to the wars. I would never give up though.
caprice49Threads: 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Aug 5, 09 		  Sep 1, 09, 10:51 /  #
Ohad:
Hi caprice,
Could you please explain this?

My experience of records has indicated that those making records or re-entering records do make mistakes. My mother's details for instance were one year out. Handwriting can be a culprit as well which contributes substantially to the confusion. Mark above also makes a point. When all avenues seem exhausted, it doesn't hurt to check the inobvious and also a few years this way and that. Chronology is the main culprit.
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