Poles have more Germanic Genomes than Germans!

Genetic make-up of Europe

Based on the Distribution of Y-chromosome DNA in Europe, here is a list of countries based on their ethnic percentages.

Foreword

Celts

There isn't a homogeneous Celtic ethnicity. Pre-Roman Europe had a strong Celtic culture ranging from Central Europe to the British Isles and Iberia.
Celtic people can be divided in these rough categories, each associated with a subclade of R1b-S116+ (subclade markers are in brackets) :

- Rhine-Alpine-Italic Celts (S28)
- Scottish Celts (M222)
- Irish Celts (M37)
- Atlantic Celts* (M167)
- Basques (M65, M153)

* Northern Iberia, Western France, Cornwall, Wales.

Germans

What people call "Germanic ethnicity" is in fact a mixture of northern continental R1b (S116-, S21+) and I haplogroups (I1 + I2b). In Scandinavia and East Germany, the inclusion of a strong Slavic component (R1a) make them a slightly different ethnicity from the English, Dutch, Belgian or West Germans.

Slavs

The original Slavic (or Aryan or Kurgan) people belonged to haplogroup R1a. This haplogroup is also common in Central Asia, Iran and India, thanks to the great Indo-Aryan migrations.

Greco-Romans

The Ancient Greeks were an admixture of European and Near-Eastern people. The paternal side shows a strong Near-Eastern component, making modern Greek Y-DNA closer to Turkish, Syrian, Lebanese and even Iraqi one than to that of Western or Northern Europe. According to Y-DNA frequencies observed in Europe, Southern Italy and the Balkans were heavily settled by the Ancient Greeks, or their Neolithic ancestors that did not yet call themselves "Greeks".

We are still unsure about the original Y-DNA types of the Romans, but due to the proximity of the Greek colonies, and the fact that Etruscans were also of Near Eastern origins, it is likely that the Romans were an admixture of Near-Eastern J2, G2 and E3b with the native Italo-Celtic R1b. As the Romans played a major role in spreading Near-Eastern haplogroups in and north of the Alps, I will refer to the J2-G2-E3b admixture as Greco-Roman, and the Italic R1b just as "Celtic". Haplogroup G2 correlates strongly with the spread of J2 with a ratio of 1 G2 for 3 J2 in average, suggesting that these haplogroups spread together from Anatolia, while the European E3b had a different origin (probably in the Balkans).

Most Celtic countries in Europe (R1b-S116+)

1. Ireland : about 75% of Y-DNA
2. Spain & Wales : about 70%
3. Scotland : about 65%
4. France & Portugal : about 55%
5. Italy : about 40%
6. Switzerland & England : about 35%
7. Belgium : about 30%
8. Germany : about 25%
9. Netherlands & Denmark : about 20%

Most Germanic countries in Europe (I1 + I2b + R1b-S116-)

1. Netherlands & Iceland : about 70% of Y-DNA
2. Sweden : about 65%
3. Denmark : about 58%
4. Norway : about 55%
5. England : about 53%
6. Belgium : about 48%
7. Germany : about 40%
8. Austria : about 34%
9. Finland : about 32%
10. Czech Republic : about 26%
11. Switzerland : about 22%
12. France : about 21%
13. Slovakia : about 19%
14. Estonia : about 18%
15. Poland : about 14%

Most Slavic countries in Europe (R1a + I2a2)

1. Belarus & Croatia : about 70% of Y-DNA
2. Poland : about 65%
3. Ukraine: about 62%
4. Russia (historical) : about 57%
5. Bosnia : about 55%
6. Slovakia : about 50%
7. Bulgaria : about 47%
8. Czech Republic : about 43%
9. Romania : about 40%
10. Hungary : about 37%
11. Serbia : about 35%

Most Indo-European countries (R1a + R1b)

1. Wales : about 84% of Y-DNA
2. Ireland : about 82%
3. Scotland : about 80%
4. Poland : about 73%
5. Spain : about 72%
6. England : about 71%
7. Iceland & Belgium : about 65%
8. Netherlands & Germany : about 60%

Most Paleolithic European (Cro-Magnon) countries (I1 + I2)

1. Croatia : about 51% of Y-DNA
2. Sweden : about 44%
3. Norway & Bulgaria : about 37%
4. Denmark : about 36%
5. Serbia : about 35%
6. Iceland : about 33%
7. Belarus & Finland : about 29%
8. Netherlands & Hungary : about 25%
9. Czech Republic : about 24%
10. England, Germany & Romania : about 21%
11. Belgium : about 20%

Most Greco-Balkanic (or Near Eastern) countries in Europe (E-M78 + T + J + G2a)

1. Greece : about 58% of Y-DNA
2. Albania : about 48%
3. Turkey : about 45%
4. Italy : about 40%
5. Macedonia Portugal : about 38%
6. Romania : about 33%
7. Austria & Bulgaria : about 30%
8. Switzerland : about 25%
9. Hungary : about 22%
10. France : about 20%
11. Germany : about 16%

Most Uralo-Finnic countries in Europe (N1c1)

1. Finland : about 60% of Y-DNA
2. Latvia & Lithuania : about 40%
3. Estonia : about 35%
4. Russia (historical) : about 23%
5. Sweden : about 7%

freegermanyThreads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Oct 26, 09	Edited by: freegermany Oct 26, 09, 03:07 / #
That is really no joke, as those of You who know German language can find out! Cause I cannot give a link as "newbie" first a quotation and then a hint to find it in internet: Nach neuesten DNA-Analysen müssen offensichtlich althergebrachte Geschichtsbilder revidiert werden! Demnach sind selbst heute noch 45 % der Deutschen (ohne heutige Einwanderer), insbesondere in Süddeutschland, keltischer Herkunft, nur 25 % germanischer Herkunft und väterlicherseits sogar nur 6 % eines germanischen Ursprungs. 30 % der Deutschen stammen von Osteuropäern (20 % Slawen und 10 % Andere) ab. Interessanterweise haben die Bevölkerungen in Polen (60 % Germanen und 32 % Slawen) und der Tschechischen Republik (50 % Germanen und 42 % Slawen) einen deutlich höheren Anteil der auf germanische Wurzel zurück geht als die Deutschen selbst That means the Eastern Teutones didn´t die off (as historicians had thought for a long time) but have mixed themselves with Slavs, so that Poles have a percentage of 60%, Czech of 50% (in each case in average) of Germanic genomes. On the other hand that percentage regarding Germans is only 25% - cause German Genomes contain a big part of Eastern and other genomes (from Celts, Masurians, Poles and so on). Take: Deutsche Stämme und Dialekte as search-key on Google and You should get the article containing that quotation in German language on top of the page. If not then You should try a whole sentence of that quotation as search-key. What does that mean? 1. All Poles who had thought to hate Teutones have to think once again from the start. 2. All Nazis who think that Poles were beneath human beings cause they wouldn´t have Germanican ancestors have only two chances: Either to give up any racism or to feel themselves as beneath human beings compared to Poles and Czechs who would be the dominators... 3. Old Teutones and old Slavs weren´t racists: They didn´t fight one another but married one another!

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 26, 09, 06:35 / #
freegermany: Poles have more Germanic Genomes than Germans! Yuck !!!!!!!!!11

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Oct 26, 09, 08:21 / #
freegermany: 30 % der Deutschen stammen von Osteuropäern (20 % Slawen und 10 % Andere) ab 30% of Germans come from eastern Europe(20% from Slavs).It seems that Crow's theory have a basis since this percentage must be much higher for eastern Germans.

CedThreads: 1 Posts: 62 Joined: Oct 19, 09	Oct 26, 09, 10:25 / #
Grzegorz_: Yuck !!!!!!!!! ha ha!

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,583 Joined: Jul 13, 09	Oct 26, 09, 17:02 / #
Grzegorz_: Yuck !!!!!!!!!11 That is spelled "Yak", and it's an animal from Asia. Ced: ha ha! Let's find out how many Germanic genomes the Frog Eaters have then... :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 26, 09, 17:11 / #
We had topics about that before.... Genetic make-up of Europe Based on the Distribution of Y-chromosome DNA in Europe, here is a list of countries based on their ethnic percentages. Foreword Celts There isn't a homogeneous Celtic ethnicity. Pre-Roman Europe had a strong Celtic culture ranging from Central Europe to the British Isles and Iberia. Celtic people can be divided in these rough categories, each associated with a subclade of R1b-S116+ (subclade markers are in brackets) : - Rhine-Alpine-Italic Celts (S28) - Scottish Celts (M222) - Irish Celts (M37) - Atlantic Celts* (M167) - Basques (M65, M153) * Northern Iberia, Western France, Cornwall, Wales. Germans What people call "Germanic ethnicity" is in fact a mixture of northern continental R1b (S116-, S21+) and I haplogroups (I1 + I2b). In Scandinavia and East Germany, the inclusion of a strong Slavic component (R1a) make them a slightly different ethnicity from the English, Dutch, Belgian or West Germans. Slavs The original Slavic (or Aryan or Kurgan) people belonged to haplogroup R1a. This haplogroup is also common in Central Asia, Iran and India, thanks to the great Indo-Aryan migrations. Greco-Romans The Ancient Greeks were an admixture of European and Near-Eastern people. The paternal side shows a strong Near-Eastern component, making modern Greek Y-DNA closer to Turkish, Syrian, Lebanese and even Iraqi one than to that of Western or Northern Europe. According to Y-DNA frequencies observed in Europe, Southern Italy and the Balkans were heavily settled by the Ancient Greeks, or their Neolithic ancestors that did not yet call themselves "Greeks". We are still unsure about the original Y-DNA types of the Romans, but due to the proximity of the Greek colonies, and the fact that Etruscans were also of Near Eastern origins, it is likely that the Romans were an admixture of Near-Eastern J2, G2 and E3b with the native Italo-Celtic R1b. As the Romans played a major role in spreading Near-Eastern haplogroups in and north of the Alps, I will refer to the J2-G2-E3b admixture as Greco-Roman, and the Italic R1b just as "Celtic". Haplogroup G2 correlates strongly with the spread of J2 with a ratio of 1 G2 for 3 J2 in average, suggesting that these haplogroups spread together from Anatolia, while the European E3b had a different origin (probably in the Balkans). So here it comes: Most Celtic countries in Europe (R1b-S116+) 1. Ireland : about 75% of Y-DNA 2. Spain & Wales : about 70% 3. Scotland : about 65% 4. France & Portugal : about 55% 5. Italy : about 40% 6. Switzerland & England : about 35% 7. Belgium : about 30% 8. Germany : about 25% 9. Netherlands & Denmark : about 20% Most Germanic countries in Europe (I1 + I2b + R1b-S116-) 1. Netherlands & Iceland : about 70% of Y-DNA 2. Sweden : about 65% 3. Denmark : about 58% 4. Norway : about 55% 5. England : about 53% 6. Belgium : about 48% 7. Germany : about 40% 8. Austria : about 34% 9. Finland : about 32% 10. Czech Republic : about 26% 11. Switzerland : about 22% 12. France : about 21% 13. Slovakia : about 19% 14. Estonia : about 18% 15. Poland : about 14% Most Slavic countries in Europe (R1a + I2a2) 1. Belarus & Croatia : about 70% of Y-DNA 2. Poland : about 65% 3. Ukraine: about 62% 4. Russia (historical) : about 57% 5. Bosnia : about 55% 6. Slovakia : about 50% 7. Bulgaria : about 47% 8. Czech Republic : about 43% 9. Romania : about 40% 10. Hungary : about 37% 11. Serbia : about 35% Most Indo-European countries (R1a + R1b) 1. Wales : about 84% of Y-DNA 2. Ireland : about 82% 3. Scotland : about 80% 4. Poland : about 73% 5. Spain : about 72% 6. England : about 71% 7. Iceland & Belgium : about 65% 8. Netherlands & Germany : about 60% Most Paleolithic European (Cro-Magnon) countries (I1 + I2) 1. Croatia : about 51% of Y-DNA 2. Sweden : about 44% 3. Norway & Bulgaria : about 37% 4. Denmark : about 36% 5. Serbia : about 35% 6. Iceland : about 33% 7. Belarus & Finland : about 29% 8. Netherlands & Hungary : about 25% 9. Czech Republic : about 24% 10. England, Germany & Romania : about 21% 11. Belgium : about 20% Most Greco-Balkanic (or Near Eastern) countries in Europe (E-M78 + T + J + G2a) 1. Greece : about 58% of Y-DNA 2. Albania : about 48% 3. Turkey : about 45% 4. Italy : about 40% 5. Macedonia Portugal : about 38% 6. Romania : about 33% 7. Austria & Bulgaria : about 30% 8. Switzerland : about 25% 9. Hungary : about 22% 10. France : about 20% 11. Germany : about 16% Most Uralo-Finnic countries in Europe (N1c1) 1. Finland : about 60% of Y-DNA 2. Latvia & Lithuania : about 40% 3. Estonia : about 35% 4. Russia (historical) : about 23% 5. Sweden : about 7%

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Edited by: Mr Grunwald Oct 26, 09, 17:11 / #
Oh dear lord, you haven't learned yet that there were many Polonized Germans? Just becaouse one individual have blood X in their genes doesn't mean they will follow the culture of culture X. I may even have more Germanic blood and genes in myself but still I consider myself half Polish and half Norwegian so all this is bull$h!T

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Oct 26, 09, 17:16 / #
Mr Grunwald: I may even have more Germanic blood and genes in myself but still I consider myself half Polish and half Norwegian so all this is bull$h!T Well when you feel Norwegian (Germanic R1b) and Polish(Slavic R1a) you may better call yourself indo-european (R1a+R1b)! ;) We are core Europeans, period!

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,429 Joined: May 28, 09	Oct 26, 09, 17:46 / #
Bratwurst Boy: 11. Serbia : about 35% This will devestate Crow :(

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Oct 26, 09, 17:49 / #
PlasticPole He is good at ignoring and denying facts...;)

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Edited by: osiol Oct 26, 09, 19:01 / #
Curiously, I saw somewhere a couple of texts of an old Slavic language called Polabian. It was clearly Slavic, although it contained many more vowels than the modern Slavic languages and the word for father was Wader. Historians amongst us will probably know slightly better than I where these people lived, but I believe it to be somewhere in the area around eastern Germany / western Poland. It seems that if certain other languages had survived through history, then the case for the mixing of certain populations may have been a little clearer in some places. On the subject of genomes, I believe these are rather more popular in Germany than they are over here. On one of my journeys leaving Poland, I vaguely remember seeing a roadside stall selling genomes and other garden ornaments close to the German border.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Oct 26, 09, 19:19 / #
You mean Gnomes surely! The Polabians (German: Polaben; Latin: Polabi) were a constituent West Slavic tribe of the Obotrites who lived between the Trave and the Elbe. The main settlement of the Polabians was Racisburg (modern Ratzeburg), named after their Prince Ratibor. The Polabians were similar to the Drevani, also known as the Draväno-polaben or Drevanen, in Lüchow-Dannenberg. In 1139 Henry the Lion granted "Polabia" to Count Henry of Badewide. The tribe was subsequently Germanized and assimilated over the following centuries. The last remnants of the Polabians died out in the 17th century, as did the Polabian language. Cultural remnants of the Polabians of Lower Saxony include numerous villages in the region based on Slavic settlement forms. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaben

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08	Edited by: MareGaea Oct 26, 09, 20:38 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Most Germanic countries in Europe (I1 + I2b + R1b-S116-) 1. Netherlands & Iceland : about 70% of Y-DNA I still like to see that :) freegermany: They didn´t fight one another but married one another! I think they did both :) But of course, when you fall in love with somebody it doesn't matter where he or she is from. No type of person is pure, gene-wise. PlasticPole: This will devestate Crow :( The last time BB posted this list we had a good laugh about it, but he ignored it then and probably he will ignore/deny it this time again. Just like he denies the Genocide at Srebrenica. Bratwurst Boy: Gnomes I like Gnomes. Especially when you bake them nicely brown on all sides with a little bit of mushroom, onion, parsley, pepper and salt. They're best with a light creme-sause, preferrably mushroom, but a white sauce is ok too. Mind the bones! Bratwurst Boy: 1139 Henry the Lion Is this the same Henry as Henry Lionheart? It seems there were more tribes there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obotrites >^..^< M-G (all those tribes)

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Oct 26, 09, 20:43 / #
PlasticPole: Bratwurst Boy: 11. Serbia : about 35% This will devestate Crow :( From personal observations this is true.35% of Serbs look hardcore slavic indeed.The rest is divided between mediteranean looks and slavic-mediteranean mix.(excellent combination).Most are mix in my opinion.(like high cheeks,green eyes but with mediteranean hair and mouth) in general if you see Serbs,you may think they are Poles till you listen to them. We should not forget that before the Slavs came,some very tall people(Macedones,Thracians,Illyrians) inhabited this area and the result is the extraordinary height of Serbs and Croats.

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08	Oct 26, 09, 18:01 / #
Bratwurst Boy Oh yeah, this is the list on which it says that we Dutch are more German than the Germans :) >^..^< M-G (nah)

freegermanyThreads: 2 Posts: 3 Joined: Oct 26, 09	Edited by: freegermany Oct 26, 09, 18:13 / #
It is just anyhow impressive when there are columns of numbers - but: There is a very great problem to get valid numbers and so I am not astonished that there are circling different numbers concerning the same things: The movements within the European continent, just Germany, Czech and Poland in the middle of it have been concerned by that most I think, must have the consequence of great variance within the countries self. That means You need really very great spot tests to get valid results. So exact numbers make sense in cases of very homogeneous populations as supposely in Iceland, but not at all in Poland or Germany as long as You do not make serial screenings. Anyway: Old Eastern Teutones and old Slavs have mixed.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 26, 09, 18:53 / #
freegermany: Anyway: Old Eastern Teutones and old Slavs have mixed. ALL native Europeans are mixed between each other more or less....you can take that one to the bank! Centuries of wandering around the continent tends to do that! Our clear cut nation borders are a quite recent development...

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,948 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Oct 26, 09, 20:51 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Most Germanic countries in Europe (I1 + I2b + R1b-S116-) 1. Netherlands I totally agree.Netherlands is by far the most germanic country.It had ideal place to avoid mix with Slavs,Mediteraneans and Celts. Bratwurst Boy: 1. Ireland : about 75% of Y-DNA Again.Highly likely.Ireland as an island was separated from outside genetic influence so a lot of genetic similarity between people there must be the rule.Obviously there are very few Germanics in Ireland(unlike England). Bratwurst Boy: 2. Sweden : about 65% And in Sweden as country with little seacoast there was too little mix with other races.Again it is obvious by people looks there.And Dutch and Swedes who are the most germanic are also the tallest folks in the world which means that germanic genes create a natural tendency for certain features. Bratwurst Boy : 8. Austria : about 34% Austria is a peculiar case.I would describe Austria as german-balkan.A balkan man feels at home in Vienna although it may sound strange.