Surname Łos from Białystok

yehudi:

But you might have some Jewish women among your ancestors. You might be interested to know that according to jewish law, being jewish comes from the mother. In other words, if you have only one jewish great grandmother but it's your mother's mother's mother, then you are a Jew no matter what religion or ethinicity of your male Łoś ancestors.

lecount1973	Jun 18, 09, 13:23 / #
I'm wondering if anyone has any information on the surname Łos from Białystok. Any information would be wonderful, especially on Josefa Los or Łos - Born 1896 Bialystok or Synchaja?

Polonius3Threads: 963 Posts: 4,547 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Jun 20, 09, 16:11 / #
A łoś in Polish is an elk (N.American - moose). BTW without the dojiggers the word los means fate, destiny or lottery ticket. More than 5,000 people named Łoś in Poland wtih the Białystok area being the single largest concentration. Katowice comes a close second.

lecount1973	Jun 21, 09, 04:43 / #
Thank you for the information, just wondering, is it a common name? Is it always Polish or could there be something else? My mtdna on my mother's side (The Los) side seems to show different ethnicities besides Polish.

Polonius3Threads: 963 Posts: 4,547 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Jun 21, 09, 12:41 / #
Well, with the diacriticals Łoś is defintiely Polish. Without them it could be traceable to soem otehr nationality. In German los means wrong as in "Was ist los?" (what's wrong). One example: in Polish posada means a job post or position, in Spanish it is a tavern or inn.

lecount1973	Jun 21, 09, 13:40 / #
I guess what I'm asking is: Have you ever heard of the surname being used as an Ashkenazi surname, as my mtdna seems to have much in common to the European Ashkenazi gene base. This is totally a surprise to me, as there was never any talk of this in my family.

Polonius3Threads: 963 Posts: 4,547 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Edited by: Moderator Jun 21, 09, 15:41 / #
ALthough many Polish Jews had certain kinds of names, any name could have been used by a Jew. Never heard of łoś, but Wilk (Wolf) and Lis (Fuchs) were not uncommon. Maybe this link will lead you in the right direction: broken link removed

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jun 21, 09, 16:34 / #
I never heard of a jew (ashkenazi or otherwise) named Łoś. But you might have some Jewish women among your ancestors. You might be interested to know that according to jewish law, being jewish comes from the mother. In other words, if you have only one jewish great grandmother but it's your mother's mother's mother, then you are a Jew no matter what religion or ethinicity of your male Łoś ancestors.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Jun 21, 09, 18:09 / #
yehudi: But you might have some Jewish women among your ancestors. You might be interested to know that according to jewish law, being jewish comes from the mother. In other words, if you have only one jewish great grandmother but it's your mother's mother's mother, then you are a Jew no matter what religion or ethinicity of your male Łoś ancestors. Does he have a say it that matter?

Polonius3Threads: 963 Posts: 4,547 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Jun 21, 09, 22:18 / #
Here is a link which can get you strated tracing Jewish surnames: http://nancy.polishsite.us/art24jagafr.htm

lecount1973	Jun 22, 09, 05:32 / #
What does anybody know about "hidden" Jewish ancestry in Poland?

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jun 22, 09, 08:39 / #
Ironside: Does he have a say it that matter? He can live his life as he sees fit. But regardless of what he does his legal standing in Jewish law is that he is a member of the tribe, with the accompanying rights (to marry another Jew, for example) and obligations (to keep the laws of the torah). But if he ignores this, then Jewish law doesn't hold him responsible because it recognizes that he was brought up as a non-Jew and can't be expected to suddenly believe in the Jewish religion. On the other hand, if he decides that he wants to marry a Jewish girl he won't have to convert, even if he was a catholic priest, because he's already a Jew.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside Jun 23, 09, 00:35 / #
yehudi: He Gee This is most racist? chauvinistic and anachronistic interpretation of "nation" , tribe that I ever heard! I'm awed ! Its so!!!! tribal fresh from down of humanity - marvelous.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 23, 09, 00:38 / #
Nothing like cementing your identity, right?

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Jun 23, 09, 00:47 / #
Seanus: Nothing like cementing your identity, right? Right? I don't fallow you....

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 23, 09, 00:48 / #
Well, as long as you follow me, I'm not too concerned about fallow ;) ;) Everyone has fallow periods :(

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Jun 23, 09, 01:11 / #
Seanus: Well I don't know what you had in mind!)))) As for fallow periods - I'm exhausted on the verge of sleep! byyyyyyyyyyyyy

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 23, 09, 07:56 / #
Classic missing of humour but nevermind, I'm working on you guys. You will rise up above slapstick one day, I'll put my mind to it ;)

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Edited by: yehudi Jun 23, 09, 10:32 / #
Ironside: Gee This is most racist? chauvinistic and anachronistic I don't see anything racist or chauvinistic about this at all. The law simply determines someone's legal/religious status based on that of his mother. It states nowhere that his status as a Jew is superior or inferior to that of a non-Jew. The reason we don't marry non-Jews is not because we think they are inferior but because we have to preserve our identity and our mission. How else do you think we could maintain our identity as a scattered minority for 2000 years? As far as being anachronistic, Jews are by definition anachronistic, and proud of it.

lecount1973	Jun 23, 09, 20:29 / #
So, how would/could I "prove" this? Does anyone know?

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jun 24, 09, 10:05 / #
Prove what?

lecount1973	Jun 24, 09, 12:48 / #
Prove if I have any Jewish women among my ancestors.

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jun 24, 09, 13:33 / #
Start by asking your mother. Do you know who your mother's mother's mother was? Do you have a name, or name of a town?

lecount1973	Jun 24, 09, 19:17 / #
Josefa Los or Łos - Born 1896 Białystok or Synchaja? Yes, I actually knew her but she never said anything about being Jewish, or having Jewish in her background. That's why all this dna stuff is interesting and baffling to me. Furthermore, one of the persons that I share a 0(zero) genetic distance from is an Orthodox Jewish woman (I'll withhold the last name) - but we can't seem to find a link between us, most of her family being from Israel and mine, Poland.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside Jun 24, 09, 21:25 / #
Seanus: Classic missing of humour but nevermind, I'm working on you guys. You will rise up above slapstick one day, I'll put my mind to it ;) Whats humor? And why would you work on me? Do you have something sinister in mind? lecount1973: Prove if I have any Jewish women among my ancestors. What for that >prove< thingy? What do you need it for? yehudi: I don't see anything racist But it is ! The member of the tribe have to have "blood" of the tribe without a doubt(thats why mother is more important). It means that "blood" of the tribe is sacred and have special role as a vessel bonding past and present generations together as a one sacred and special entity. Special is always considered better, why bother if there no differences between mine"family" and other "no family" , that why chauvinistic! Anachronistic tribe was always "better" then others and as such chauvinistic as a rule! yehudi It states nowhere that his status as a Jew is superior or inferior to that of a non-Jew..[/quote: Well......?! Doesn't have to.....))) [quote=yehudi]The reason we don't marry non-Jews is not because we think they are inferior. I think you do!))))) Maybe not everyone but definitely most of you!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 25, 09, 00:25 / #
Yes, Łos is from Białystok :) From Canada too

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jun 25, 09, 12:10 / #
Ironside: But it is ! The member of the tribe have to have "blood" of the tribe without a doubt(thats why mother is more important). It means that "blood" of the tribe is sacred and have special role as a vessel bonding past and present generations together as a one sacred and special entity. Sacred and special role for sure. But if it were only based on blood then converts would not be accepted. Yet a convert to Judaism is considered equal, legally and spiritually, to a born Jew. I'll try to explain it this way: In ancient times, G-d made a covenant with Jacob and all of his his descendants. The agreement was we would have to follow G-d's law and worship Him alone and in turn, G-d would settle us in the Land of Canaan and give us his protection and blessings. The purpose apparently was for us to be a holy nation that would serve as an example (or as an experiment?) that would eventually be followed by the rest of the world. This agreement is unending and unlaterable as long as there are descendants of Jacob (Israel). Besides for blood descendants, anyone from any nation who identifies with this mission and accepts the burden of keeping the laws of the Torah can join the "holy people". Now you can say this is terribly chauvinist, but this story is an integral part of western civilization, thanks to the christian religion, which spread this story to the western world. While christians tend to emphasize the failures of the Jews to live up to their special mission, no christian can deny that we were originally chosen to fulfil G-d's mission. We haven't succeeded yet, but we're still trying. And anyone born of a Jewish mother can feel privileged to be part of this, but should also feel awe at the difficulty and seriousness of trying to live life as a Jew should. Anyone not born of a Jewish mother is also welcome to join, as long as they are aware that undertaking to serve G-d as a Jew is not something to be taken lightly. For anyone who sincerely wants this, I say welcome to the gene pool.

aphrodisiacThreads: 19 Posts: 3,906 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Jun 25, 09, 13:35 / #
yehudi: I say welcome to the gene pool. So it seems that it is more of a spiritual thing (at least during the times when there is no blood relationship) then blood alone. Would I be wrong to say that if the Jew does not follow the spiritual path, that would automatically exclude him from being Jewish? I think not. So according to you, it is either spiritual (for Jews and converts) but often blood related, provided the person follows the spiritual path? Please clarify this for me. Most interesting.

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 814 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jun 25, 09, 15:20 / #
It's like this: Everyone born a Jew is born into the covenant. If that person does not follow the spiritual path, he/she is violating the covenant, but is still a Jew - meaning that the responsibility is still there. A convert chooses to undertake the terms of the covenant, but once he/she does so formally, there's no turning back, and children that she gives birth to after that will be born Jews, generation after generation.