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Czy jest pan or czy pan jest?



Crazy ToadThreads: 9
Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 28, 09 		  Aug 27, 09, 22:16 /  #
Im getting these mixed up a lot!
Could someone please explain the difference and when I should use them
Thanks :)
krysiaThreads: 26
Posts: 3,604
Joined: Aug 10, 06 		  Aug 27, 09, 23:06 /  #
"czy jest pan pijany"? - "are you drunk, sir"?
more emphasis on "jest" - are YOU drunk, sir?

"czy pan jest pijany"?- "sir, are you drunk"?
more empahsish on "pan" - " SIR, are you drunk?"
Crazy ToadThreads: 9
Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 28, 09 		  Aug 28, 09, 00:16 /  #
So neither is wrong then?

Also If I removed pan or pani would it still make sense,surely they only apply to talking to adults?
krysiaThreads: 26
Posts: 3,604
Joined: Aug 10, 06 		Edited by: krysia   Aug 28, 09, 03:36 /  #
you can only remove the "pan" or "pani" if you know the person or if it's a child
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 		  Aug 28, 09, 09:06 /  #
Crazy Toad:
So neither is wrong then?

Also If I removed pan or pani would it still make sense,surely they only apply to talking to adults?

would make some sense but completely different to the one before chucking the Pan/i out

children are addressed to directly - meaning in second person and not third
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  Aug 28, 09, 10:12 /  #
Crazy Toad:
So neither is wrong then?

word order is much more flexible in Polish than in English. Often the order is changed to give emphasis in a different place as Krysia has said.

krysia:
you can only remove the "pan" or "pani" if you know the person or if it's a child

just to be clear - you are not "removing" the Pan/Pani - i.e. you can't say "czy jest pijany" instead of "czy Pan jest pijany", but you can use the 2nd person instead of the 3rd person plus Pan/Pani construction to give "jesteś pijany" as gumishu mentions.

The 2nd person form of address is for people you know, children, animals or talking to God. [Although being a total atheist I haven't tested the God bit :-) ]
Crazy ToadThreads: 9
Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 28, 09 		Edited by: Crazy Toad   Aug 28, 09, 19:12 /  #
benszymanski
but is "jesteś pijany" not "you're drunk"?
Which is more of a statement than a question,or is it meant to be said in the style of a question?
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  Aug 29, 09, 08:47 /  #
yes you are correct - jesteś pijany = you're drunk

apologies - I didn't bother typing the "czy" which would have made it clearer.
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce   Aug 29, 09, 12:57 /  #
Crazy Toad:
but is "jesteś pijany" not "you're drunk"?
Which is more of a statement than a question,or is it meant to be said in the style of a question?

It can be both a statement or a question depending on what "voice-melody" you use. Normally such a question should be with czy. Czy jesteś pijany? But it's common that people skip czy and use more melody to express that it's a question.

In English word order is very important to express who is the subject and who is the object. In Polish this is much more often determined by endings.

benszymanski:
jesteś pijany = you're drunk

Or are you drunk? Just go out on the streets and listen how often people skip czy, and use more melody instead.
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  Aug 29, 09, 14:11 /  #
yes that's right. It's normally called voice "intonation". I didn't want to over complicate the original question though....
Crazy ToadThreads: 9
Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 28, 09 		  Aug 29, 09, 15:21 /  #
Ah I undersand that :)
So would "jesteś pijany" or "czy jesteś pijany" be more suitable to use with friends as opposed to adults or strangers?
benszymanskiThreads: 9
Posts: 510
Joined: Feb 29, 08 		  Aug 29, 09, 16:41 /  #
Yes - as metioned above - generally people you know, children, animals or talking to God. People you are on first name terms with.
MichalThreads: -
Posts: 2,408
Joined: Feb 27, 07 		  Aug 30, 09, 15:52 /  #
Crazy Toad:
m getting these mixed up a lot!

Why? They are both equally correct.
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce   Aug 31, 09, 00:53 /  #
Crazy Toad:
So would "jesteś pijany" or "czy jesteś pijany" be more suitable to use with friends as opposed to adults or strangers?

Ok, listen. To make it easy for you:

1. If you have a statement (not a question) never use 'czy'.
2. If you have a yes or no-question, always begin with 'czy'.

If you follow these 2 simple rules it will be correct, and you don't have to involve formal/informal considerations.
There are other possible options as well, but don't make it more difficult than it is.

benszymanski:
voice "intonation".

Yes, that was the noun I was looking for.
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