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An issue in threads about translating between Polish and English



glowaThreads: 1
Posts: 305
Joined: Apr 6, 06 		Edited by: glowa   Jun 9, 06, 03:03 /  #
Hi All

I've been reading some ot the threads, where people ask to translate between English and Polish and would like to express a little concern.

We're probably all aware that most of the translations are done by us, i.e., the Poles present on the forum.

So, as far as translations from Polish to English are concerned there is no problem, because you, native English speakers, can correct or rephrase the sentences to your liking once you've got the outcome.

However....
The problem arises when English to Polish translations are concerned. The sentences, the form is often really horrible. "Colloquial" wouldn't even be the word to explain it. The thing is that those translations do carry the meaning, but most of them is awful Polish. or should I say low-low level, you know - pretty much learnt-on-the-streets style.

So I would like to say to the Poles: please, try to put is more or less right, I mean, we can make sentences in our native tongue, can't we?
to the English-speaking people: be carefull with these translations, to everyday little converstions, SMS's or things like that it might suite, but if you need to send a letter or any kind of a more official communication, make sure what you send is not a "graffiti text".

Please, keep in mind that I'm not trying to ask anyone to stop helping others. It's just a little observation.

OK, enough bragging from my side.

Cheers!!
Guest   Jun 9, 06, 05:26 /  #
Glowa, can you start by quoting some infelicitous translations and providing your embellished versions? I really don't see much of a problem here.
glowaThreads: 1
Posts: 305
Joined: Apr 6, 06 		  Jun 9, 06, 05:37 /  #
No, no, don't misunderstand me.
I don't think it's a problem, really. It's just that sometimes there are requests to translate something more important than an SMS, that's where it could be good to be a little caucious. Especially when you're the person who needs the translation.
You see, some of the translations are awfuly bold.
And I don't mean that it should all be put in fine a well concieved poetic form, but you know... I'd encourage to put this minimum effort to make it sound, well... smooth - if that's a word I could use here.

But no, I'm not trying to say there's a problem on the forum. Please, consider it rather as an opinion, that's all.

And if I'm wrong, well, then I'm wrong. Fine by me. smile
jackelliot   Jun 9, 06, 07:08 /  #
Thanks for quite an interesting view.
Guest   Jun 9, 06, 07:10 /  #
I need examples.
glowaThreads: 1
Posts: 305
Joined: Apr 6, 06 		  Jun 9, 06, 07:35 /  #
that would be pointing fingers smile
Gigs   Jul 15, 06, 19:30 /  #
Sorry to bring this thread back to the top, but I believe Glowa has a point, plus I've experienced a few translation "glitches" myself. It's great to see all the free translations, and I'm in no way putting anyone down, however I'd like to point out a few things I've noticed:

Gender: I find it difficult to determine if the person posting a request for translation is male or female. In a few posts I was expecting to see alternate translations depending on the gender of the speaker, but didn't see that.

British English versus American English: "I would like a cot in my hotel room, please."
If an American said that, they would be expecting an additional bed, suitable for an adult. If a Londoner says that, they want a crib for a baby. Depending on where you learned English, you may offer a perfectly valid, yet still inaccurate translation. I don't think it's possible to completely eliminate the effect of localization, but if anyone sees a sentence (in English) that contains words that may have different meanings in British/American English, please point them out. You'll not only be doing a favor for the person needing the translation, but also to any translators that weren't aware of the different meanings.

Familiarity: Polish seems to have several degrees of "formality". There are words and phrases you would use with a friend, but wouldn't use when speaking to a stranger (or police officer, potential employer, etc.).

Perhaps in the very first 'sticky' post on the forums, it may be advisable to offer a few "Guidelines for a more accurate translation". In other words, if a poster is asking for an English to Polish translation, they should state their gender, the reader's gender, whether they're using British or American English, and a "tone" or degree of familiarity between the poster and intended recipient.

The recent Têskni³em / Têskni³am za Tob± mixup by someone asking for their work to be checked is an example of gender, although I think the level of formality can definitely be inferred in context :-)
wil   Aug 10, 07, 09:46 /  #
thanks for my friday 17 august translation :)
JaneyThreads: -
Posts: 42
Joined: Aug 4, 07 		  Aug 16, 07, 08:57 /  #
Quoting: Gigs
British English versus American English


This seems to be the biggest problem for me as a Brit, my b/f and work collegues were taught American English at school so some conversations take longer than normal due to translating American English to British English and explaining the difference. It can be a pain.

Would be nice if British English was taught at Polish schools considering Polish people are more likely to come and live/work in England rather than America.

That just my thought, no needs to agree.
glowaThreads: 1
Posts: 305
Joined: Apr 6, 06 		  Aug 16, 07, 09:01 /  #
Quoting: Janey

Would be nice if British English was taught at Polish schools

it normally IS.

problem is though, that once you've learnt enough to, for instance, be able to watch a movie without reading subtitles or using any aid, most of what you find and see is American. and voila, you develop habits.
JaneyThreads: -
Posts: 42
Joined: Aug 4, 07 		  Aug 16, 07, 09:13 /  #
b/f sister has been over here for the past 6 weeks, she was very happy for me to correct her English, but again her school taught American English.

I really enjoyed her staying and we all had a lot of fun, it made me realise how much I take my language for granted, especially when she asked me for the meaning of particular and locally said words and sayings. Made me work hard to understand my own language I have been speaking for a very long time shall we say without giving my age away!!!

I know us Brits are very lazy when it comes to speaking other languages. I learnt French for only three years at school only because we had to. I still know enough to get by.

My lover thinks I'm crazy for wanting to try to learn Polish as it's so difficult, but hay I'm a crazy British woman or I wouldn't be going out with him.
jkirkwoodThreads: 2
Posts: 13
Joined: Aug 17, 07 		  Aug 20, 07, 17:57 /  #
I agree with you, glowa, in that Polish sentences can have so many variables - formality as already mentioned, gender, case, word order etc. - whereas English words and their positions in sentences change so little. So it seems there is wide scope for error in translating from English to Polish, and less so the other way round. You're right to point out the hazard of relying on such translations for formal communication, meaning letters and so on.
Though I'm sure I'm not the only one who's hugely grateful for the effort the translators put in!
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Aug 20, 07, 18:08 /  #
jkirkwood, I have to disagree with some of what you have said.

Word order is one of the most important features of English grammar.
Accepted we don't use gender in a grammatical sense.
Levels of formality ARE present in English. We just don't have the T / V distinction.
A non-native speaker will be far less likely to be able to use the correct level of formality because they are mostly taught that there is no distinction, but we all know when somebody in being polite / impolite / overpolite and so on.

We are all the same Homo sapiens sapiens, just using different languages - they all reach the same levels of complexity in the end, and that is the complexity of the human mind and what we need to communicate.

As many mistakes can be made translating in either direction. Neither language is inherently simpler.
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Aug 20, 07, 18:28 /  #
Can people make a bit more effort using the Polish alphabet.
I see far too many translations where we get

a instead of ±
l instead of ³
etc. etc.

If someone is actually trying to learn, sloppy writing like this can cause real problems.
jkirkwoodThreads: 2
Posts: 13
Joined: Aug 17, 07 		  Aug 22, 07, 12:02 /  #
Yes osiol, I don't disagree.
I meant to point out that while English is not at all easier or simpler as a language, there are perhaps more alternate translations of a given sentence from English into Polish than in the other direction. Though I do accept that formality is equally important to what we say in either language, and that it's not always a case of black-and-white distinctions between formal and informal words or structures. And the bit about word order was certainly wrong, apologies for getting carried away with my point.
Thanks for some interesting ideas, especially about different languages 'evolving' towards a similar complexity due to our common species.
HAL9009Threads: 2
Posts: 329
Joined: Mar 13, 07 		  Aug 24, 07, 06:34 /  #
The exact translation of a sentence, especially a complex one can be a matter of opinion also. Different people will use differing words. I agree with glowa and osiol (or is that g³owa and osio³ heh) attention to detail and accuracy is important. But, we are also all volunteers.
I always use proper accented characters because I can. They are important. However, some people cannot access them on their computers. Perhaps a sticky listing all of these characters might be an idea. Users could then copy/paste them when typing...
Here's a start:
¡± Êê Ææ £³ Ññ Óó ¦¶ ¯¿ ¬¼
onequickquestio   Nov 27, 09, 09:32 /  #
Ladies / Gentlemen
I find languages fascinating and I am trying to learn enough Polish to get by. I like, a previous correspondant learn't French at school, granted i'm lousy at it, I also learn't Spanish, even worse. In my day when I was knee high to a grasshopper, those were the languages governed by the powers that be that we learn't. Poland was part of the warsaw pact and there was a chance of conflict, thank goodness that nonsense is all over and we can live in harmony, its such a short time ago (i'm 48 and remember it well).
Is there any point to my post? absolutely no idea. What i do struggle with is masculine and feminine words and how everything appears (rightly or wrongly, by my perception) to be male or female. In French for example we have "Le" and "La" for the same word "the" and its use is dependent on the object, i do struggle. A Polish coleague has told me she struggles with "he and she" in english. It makes life so much more intresting don't you think.
I also struggle with pronunciation, living up north not many southereners can understand my english and there are certain letter combinations i can't say. I was really intrigued when out in the Lake District that the Polish Lady I was with, could not say "Th" as in Thirlmere and it helped me to understand why i couldn't say certain Polish letter combinations. Anyway, is there any point to my post, probably not, I just like reading the posts here to help me understand a little more. Thank you and best wishes all
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