What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając

Ziemowit:

This sentence should have been addressed to Lyzko who is German, I believe, instead of having been addressed to you. I'm indeed sorry to have mistaken you for him (it is probably because the two of you two have similar problems in struggling with the Polish grammar)!

MichallikesThreads: 12 Posts: 50 Joined: Jul 12, 09	Sep 2, 09, 22:56 / #
What is this type of word called and others like it? uwydatniając Thanks

PioThreads: - Posts: 17 Joined: Jul 9, 09	Sep 2, 09, 23:57 / #
uwydatniając = contemporary adverbial participle of the verb uwydatniać. This participle is called in Polish imiesłów przysłówkowy współczesny.

YstadThreads: 2 Posts: 21 Joined: Apr 30, 08	Edited by: Ystad Sep 3, 09, 00:50 / #
Thanks Pio - I have yet to tackle this frightening creature:) I must learn it soon! What is it called in Polish when you make a noun from a verb, for example: Czytać ----> czytanie Mówić -----> mówienie I am guessing, maybe rzeczowniki czasownikowe ???

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: mafketis Sep 3, 09, 01:21 / #
Ystad: I am guessing, maybe rzeczowniki czasownikowe ??? Pretty sure it's rzeczowniki odczasownikowe (the od- = from) Ystad: hanks Pio - I have yet to tackle this frightening creature:) I must learn it soon! Very easy, only made from imperfective verbs and the process is easy. present tense third person plural + c mają = they have mając = (while) having (while X-ing is not the only way to translate them but it's an easy way to distinguish them from other -ing forms in English). mówią = they're speaking mówiąc = while speaking The single form is for all persons and numbers but the subject must be the same as another verb in the sentence. Napisałem list słuchając muyki. or Sluchając muzyki napisałem list. I wrote a letter while listening to music. or While listening to music I wrote a letter. It's also possible with an infinitive as the other verb. Also the negative form is equivalent to the English 'without X-ing'. Jak znaleźć utwór nie znając autora ani tytułu. How to find a song without knowing who wrote it or what it's called. They're really not nearly as tough as they may seem at first.

YstadThreads: 2 Posts: 21 Joined: Apr 30, 08	Edited by: Ystad Sep 3, 09, 07:07 / #
That's brilliant, mafketis! Really clear and helpful - thanks very much! I didn't know about the "nie + czytąc form" , to mean "without reading". I'd been clumsily using "bez + czytania": e.g. "Wypatrywałem się w gazetę, bez czytania żadnego artykułu." (???) "I stared at the paper without reading a single article". I never knew if this was correct Polish: it doesn't feel very "elegant"! But with the "nie + czytąc" form, would this be right? "Nie czytąc żadnego artykułu, wypatrywałem się w gazetę."

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Sep 3, 09, 07:10 / #
Ystad: "Nie czytąc żadnego artykułu, wypatrywałem się gazetę." "nie czytając żadnego artykułu" (they read = czytają) or maybe even "nic nie czytając"

YstadThreads: 2 Posts: 21 Joined: Apr 30, 08	Edited by: Ystad Sep 3, 09, 07:12 / #
Ah... yes! Stupid me - I forgot the 3rd person plural rule! Thank you again.

cinekThreads: 1 Posts: 264 Joined: Nov 16, 07	Sep 3, 09, 11:08 / #
Ystad: uwydatniając = contemporary adverbial participle of the verb uwydatniać. This participle is called in Polish imiesłów przysłówkowy współczesny. What is strange (at least for me), Poles tend to avoid using participles in coloquial language. Very often we use descriptive (and more verbose) expressions instead. E.g Idąc do domu spotkałem kolegę. in typical coloquial lagnuage would be: Gdy szedłem do domu, spotkałem kumpla. It's even more visible with using past adverbial participle (imiesłów przysłówkowy uprzedni) e.g. Przyszedłszy do domu zjadłem obiad. often expressed as: Jak przyszedłem do domu, to zjadłem obiad. However, using participles (properly) in official language is elegnat and usually confirms higher education of the speaker. Using them (too much) in coloquial speaking may be taken as weird or even snobbish. Cinek

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Sep 3, 09, 12:15 / #
cinek: Using participles (too much) in coloquial speaking may be taken as weird or even snobbish. Very true! When I speak without following the rules of colloquial speech, my wife usually says: You sound as if you were reading a newspaper! [Szczera pawda! Jeśli wpowiadam się niezgodnie z regułami języka potocznego, moja żona napomina mnie: Mówisz tak, jakbyś czytał gazetę!] cinek: Przyszedłszy do domu, zjadłem obiad. A tricky one! Some might have said: przyszedłwszy, but it would have been a mistake. Why? Maybe a homework for Ystad to answer this ...?

YstadThreads: 2 Posts: 21 Joined: Apr 30, 08	Edited by: Ystad Sep 3, 09, 12:41 / #
Ziemowit: A tricky one! Some might have said: przyszedłwszy, but it would have been a mistake. Why? Maybe a homework for Ystad to answer this ...? Aha! A Polish grammar challenge to lighten up my dull morning! Thank you Ziemowit! This participle (called the Perfective Gerund in some books) is formed from the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense [hence my confusion in the post above, when I failed to use the 3rd person plural of the present tense to form the present adverbial participle (or Imperfective Gerund)]. It has 2 variants: 1) If the form of the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense is such that it ends in vowel + ł (e.g. przeczytał), the the ł is dropped and replaced by wszy: przeczytawszy - "having read". Przeczytawsy jej list, dzwoniłem bespośrednio do swojej matki. Having read her letter, I immediately phoned my mother. 2) But if the form of the 3rd person masculine singular of the past tense ends in consonant + ł, as in przyszedł, then the ł is not dropped, but w of the ending -wszy is dropped instead Hence, przyszedłszy. Phew - my head hurts now:) Is that nearly right? I shall now spend the next 20 minutes editing this post while I confuse myself even further.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Edited by: Ziemowit Sep 3, 09, 15:35 / #
Ystad: Is that nearly right? It is, though I've read another, perhaps simpler explanation, in a tiny, very good book of Polish grammar "Gramatyka polska" from the series "sms> system mądrego szukania" published by ParkEdukacja. (It might interest you that there is also a "Gramatyka niemiecka" in the series!) In forming the past adverbial participle, you may use one of the two endings, depending on whether the past tense root of a given perfective verb ends in a vowel or in a consonant. 1. If it ends in the former (vowel), the ending is -wszy: zrobi-wszy, zapomnia-wszy, przeczyta-wszy. 2. If it ends in the latter (consonant), the ending is -łszy: przyszed-łszy, zjad-łszy, wybieg-łszy I may perhaps add that the majority of verb roots in the past tense will end in a vowel, so only a few of them should need the -łszy ending.

cinekThreads: 1 Posts: 264 Joined: Nov 16, 07	Sep 3, 09, 13:59 / #
Ystad: Przeczytawsy jej list, dzwoniłem bespośrednio do swojej matki. Przeczytawszy jej list, zadzwoniłem bezpośrednio do swojej matki. cinek

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Sep 3, 09, 16:06 / #
Ziemowit: (It might interest you that there is also a "Gramatyka niemiecka" in the series!) This sentence should have been addressed to Lyzko who is German, I believe, instead of having been addressed to you. I'm indeed sorry to have mistaken you for him (it is probably because the two of you two have similar problems in struggling with the Polish grammar)!

MichallikesThreads: 12 Posts: 50 Joined: Jul 12, 09	Sep 4, 09, 01:29 / #
Pio: uwydatniając = contemporary adverbial participle of the verb uwydatniać. This participle is called in Polish imiesłów przysłówkowy współczesny. Thanks Pio

YstadThreads: 2 Posts: 21 Joined: Apr 30, 08	Sep 4, 09, 09:11 / #
Ziemowit: This sentence should have been addressed to Lyzko who is German, I believe, instead of having been addressed to you. I'm indeed sorry to have mistaken you for him (it is probably because the two of you two have similar problems in struggling with the Polish grammar)! I am honoured to be mistaken for Lyzko - he is much better at Polish than I am :) Thanks very much to both you and to Cinek for your helpful clarifications.