What's the difference between 'swoje' & 'moje'?

Derevon:

In Swedish we have a reflexive pronoun that works just like "swój", although it's only used in the third person. To use the equivalent of "jego" in the example above in Swedish, though, would be considered totally incorrect, and make a person sound rather unintelligent.

inkrakow	May 14, 08, 10:05 / #
An English friend of mine asked me and I couldn't explain but I know there is a difference... Can anyone help me put it into words?

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	May 14, 08, 10:17 / #
'Moje' means 'my' for the neuter singular and plural inanimate nouns, i.e. 'moje książki' (not: 'moi studenci' etc.) 'Swoje' is reflexive 'it's', 'his' 'hers'. E.g. 'Ona ma swoją książkę.' (She has her own book), not 'Ona ma jej książkę.' = She has some other female's book.

andalaThreads: - Posts: 26 Joined: Mar 13, 06	May 14, 08, 10:19 / #
Moje is a possessive pronoun for 1st person singular To są moje zabawki. (These are my toys) Swoje is a pronoun for all persons. Mam swoje prawa (I have my rights) Masz swoje prawa (You have your rights Sometimes these pronouns can be used interchangeably - in cases when the pronoun swój describes possession.

tulipanThreads: 2 Posts: 30 Joined: Dec 29, 07	May 14, 08, 10:57 / #
That's funny and bizare at the same time when we (Polish) sometimes don't know how to answer for such "simple" question. Good to read explanation! I wouldn't have known the answer neither for the first few moments :P

KrzysztofThreads: 2 Posts: 1,146 Joined: Jul 26, 07	May 14, 08, 11:38 / #
I just posted something on "swój" yesterday, take look at that: http://www.polishforums.com/donkey_diary-41_22972_0.html#msg438723

inkrakow	May 14, 08, 14:58 / #
Thanks! This is all really helpful

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	May 14, 08, 17:34 / #
Many Poles find English funny when they hear someone say 'I'm brushing MY teeth' or 'He's washing HIS feet.' Whose teeth should I be brushing if not my own? -- is a typical reaction. In Polish 'Myję zęby' is sufficient.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	May 15, 08, 07:51 / #
Same as in many languages, except for English. German, for instance too: "Ich putz' mir g'rad' die Zaehne!" = I'm brushing my (lit. 'THE') teeth right now!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Apr 4, 09, 13:34 / #
This is worthy of more discussion. Aren't there some hard cases where the choice isn't always so clearcut?

Lyzko	Apr 22, 09, 19:14 / #
I think I already posted this at a different time re: the differences between/uses of "mój" vs. "swój". An advert in a Polish magazine: BĄDŹ PANIĄ SWEGO ŻYCIA! = Be YOUR (as opposed to someone else's) OWN WOMAN or, what I recently said to a Polish teenager who'd left something on her cafe chair: "Przepraszam, panienko! Panienka zapomniała SWOJĄ gazetę!" = Pardon me, young lady! You forgot YOUR (not another person's) newspaper! Trust this clarifies things a little-:) Marku

sausageThreads: 25 Posts: 1,053 Joined: Sep 21, 07	Apr 22, 09, 19:20 / #
pgtx: co je moje to je moje a nie twoje... I was told to say this version co je moje to je swoje, ale co je twoje nie moje

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER	Apr 22, 09, 19:23 / #
sausage: co je moje to je swoje, ale co je twoje nie moje co je twoje to je moje

sausageThreads: 25 Posts: 1,053 Joined: Sep 21, 07	Apr 22, 09, 19:25 / #
pgtx: co je twoje to je moje in English my version is (Polish girls like this version!) what's mine is yours, but what's yours isn't mine

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Apr 23, 09, 00:29 / #
I was discussing this tonight with my other half and she clarified any doubts.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER	Apr 22, 09, 19:16 / #
inkrakow: Can anyone help me put it into words? co je moje to je moje a nie twoje... there you go... ;)

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,996 Joined: Nov 3, 09	Nov 8, 09, 20:20 / #
i still don't follow moj vs. swoj. for example, "czy to jest swoj telefon?" why not twoj?

Świadomy	Nov 8, 09, 21:58 / #
It's actually CZy to jest TWÓJ (not SWÓJ!) telefon? I suppose using of swój - mój/twój depends on case...

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,996 Joined: Nov 3, 09	Nov 8, 09, 22:27 / #
i hear polish natives say it all the time. swoj telefon.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Nov 8, 09, 22:37 / #
moja/moje/mój = my twoj/twoje/twój = your etc... swoja/swoje/swój = my own, your own, their own etc. (and not person dependent). To jest mój pokój. = This is my room. Idź do swojego pokoju! = Go to your own room!

Świadomy	Nov 8, 09, 22:51 / #
Perhaps, but I's sure not in this sentence: "Czy to jest swój telefon?" Because it makes no sence. It does not tell whose this telephone is. You can ask: Czy to jest twój telefon - Is that telephone yours? CZy to jest mój telefon - Is that telephone mine? CZy to jest jego telefon - Is that telephone his? But you can say: Pamiętaj, że podczas spotkania musisz wyłączyć swój telefon - Remeber, you have to have your telephone switched off during the appointment. Zostawiłem swój telefon w autobusie! - Jak to? Czyj? - No, mój! I left my telephone in the bus! - What? Whose? - Mine! (repetition with underlining that it is YOUR telephone.) Or: Za czasów komunizmu, Polacy nie mieli SWOICH samochodów. Formalnie należały one do państwa. In communist period Polish people coudn't have [ ] cars. Formally, they used to posses to the state. We don't want to underline that cars didn't use to posses to people, that they didn't use to be THEIR possesion. If wanted, we would use 'SWOICH WŁASNYCH" (in another sentence ICH). Using of SWOICH in this case is grammar necessity. It substitutes fo english 'a' (in singular) or [ ] in plural. Yeah... it's quite difficult...

DerevonThreads: 12 Posts: 186 Joined: Oct 11, 09	Nov 9, 09, 01:30 / #
"Swój" refers back to a previously mentioned person (always the subject of the sentence). It's quite important to use it right in situations like the one below: 1) Michał dał Wojtkowi swoją książkę (Michał's book) 2) Michał dał Wojtkowi jego książkę (Wojtek's book) At least that's how I've understood things. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Edited by: Ziemowit Nov 9, 09, 10:29 / #
When the subject of the sentence is refering to an object of his, he may use either of the two possesive pronouns: Dałem mu (a) moją książkę. Dałem mu (b) swoją książkę. Both are correct, although the (b) is used more frequently. "Czy to jest swój telefon?" is incorrect as the possesive pronoun swój doesn't refer here to an equivalent subject. On the other hand, the sentence "Czy masz swój telefon?" which equals to "Czy ty masz swój telefon?" is correct, just as the sentence "Czy masz twój telefon?" will also be correct, though rarely heard (ty is equivalent to twój/swój). Dał mi swój telefon would mean: A gave me A's telephone. Dał mi jego telefon would mean: A gave me B's telephone (!), though according to the rule given should also mean "A gave me A's telephone" (!). Here, the use of "swój" has much more of a differentiating power than in the preceding example!

DerevonThreads: 12 Posts: 186 Joined: Oct 11, 09	Nov 9, 09, 11:38 / #
Is it even gramatically correct to use "jego" in the sentence "dał mi jego telefon"? Wouldn't people in general automatically assume that another person than the subject is referred to, or that the person in question doesn't speak Polish very well? In Swedish we have a reflexive pronoun that works just like "swój", although it's only used in the third person. To use the equivalent of "jego" in the example above in Swedish, though, would be considered totally incorrect, and make a person sound rather unintelligent.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Nov 9, 09, 11:52 / #
Derevon: In Swedish we have a reflexive pronoun that works just like "swój", although it's only used in the third person. To use the equivalent of "jego" in the example above in Swedish, though, would be considered totally incorrect, and make a person sound rather unintelligent. I think your understanding is correct. I might be wrong but in my book the analogy can be drawn as follows: mig(sw)=moj, sig(sw)=swoj. In Russian we have moj/swoj too. Lycka till med polska! ;)

DerevonThreads: 12 Posts: 186 Joined: Oct 11, 09	Nov 9, 09, 11:55 / #
Not "sig", but "sin (common gender) /sitt (neuter gender) /sina (plural)". Tack. ;)

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Nov 9, 09, 11:59 / #
Derevon: Not "sig", but "sin (common gender) /sitt (neuter gender) /sina (plural)". Absolutely! Now I learnt that "sina" is for plural. (We didn't study that yet). Thanks! Derevon: Tack. ;) Varsågod. ;)

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Nov 9, 09, 12:01 / #
Derevon: Is it even gramatically correct to use "jego" in the sentence "dał mi jego telefon"? Wouldn't people in general automatically assume that another person than the subject is referred to, or that the person in question doesn't speak Polish very well? You are 100% right. I've just given that example to make people realize that the use of "swój" is not so obvious (what is right of swój=mój, isn't necesarilly right of swój=jego) and cannot be explained by one simple rule.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Nov 9, 09, 12:09 / #
Sasha: I might be wrong but in my book the analogy can be drawn as follows: mig(sw)=moj, sig(sw)=swoj. Not exactly. It can mean 2 things. But not mój. mig = mnie (me) - 1st person singular personal pronoun mig (själv) = się (myself) - 1st person singular reflexive pronoun In Swedish we have person dependent reflexive pronouns. Like in English, but not in Polish. mig (själv) = się (myself) dig (själv) = yourself sig själv = herself/himself/itself etc... Derevon: In Swedish we have a reflexive pronoun that works just like "swój", although it's only used in the third person. Swedish sig is reflexive pronoun equivalent to Polish się, not swój (e.g. Han tvättar sig). Ok, now I saw that you wrote sin/sitt/sina* and not sig. Sorry.*

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Nov 9, 09, 12:15 / #
SzwedwPolsce: SzwedwPolsce Tusen tack, bud for the detailed explanation. I already understood my mistake. :) I always tend to mix up "sin" with "sig". :( The analogies of moj i twoj in Swedish will be "min" och "din" appropriately. Am I right? :)

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Nov 9, 09, 12:17 / #
Ziemowit: the use of "swój" is not so obvious I love this one.. hehe. :) a.) *On kocha swoją* żonę. b.) On kocha jego żonę. Sasha: The analogies of moj i twoj in Swedish will be "min" och "din" appropriately. Am I right? :) Yes, exactly. And these are the possessive** pronouns. (My, your in English)