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Dawać czy Dać


scrivomcdivoThreads: 5
Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 10, 08 		  Nov 12, 08, 15:04 /  #
I am currently following a beginners' Polish course and have just learn the following phrase, "Mogę Panu dać.....?" which I am told means "I can give you....."

When I have looked up the verb "dać" in the dictionary, it says it means "to supply" or "to allow". I have looked up the verb "to give" and the dictionary gives the verb, "dawać".

My question is, which verb is most suited for the sentence, "Can I give you..." for example, "Can I give you 10 dollars?" Is it better to you "Mogę Panu dać.....? or "Mogę Panu dawać.....?"

Thanks
niepojetaThreads: -
Posts: 16
Joined: Oct 31, 08 		  Nov 12, 08, 15:17 /  #
hiya
follow the links, hope that helps :)

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish/Conjugations_of_common_verbs

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish:Verbs
karolinakanadaThreads: -
Posts: 9
Joined: Nov 10, 08 		  Nov 12, 08, 15:21 /  #
Moge panu dac...
Don't know the proper grammatical way to explain this but you would use this form if you are referring to giving the 10 dollars ONE time.
Can I give you 10 dollars (now): Moge panu dac 10 dolarow?
Can I give you 10 dollars (every Friday for example): Moge panu dawac...
I'm sorry if this is confusing! Hope it helps.
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 16:11 /  #
What's the difference between daj and dawaj then?
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,868
Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		  Nov 12, 08, 16:24 /  #
osiol:

daj


comes from dać - aspekt dokonany (perfect)
osiol:

dawaj


comes from dawać - aspekt niedkonany (imperfect)

dawaj is a bit stronger than daj as well
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 16:30 /  #
Thanks for your answer.
What does that answer actually mean?
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,868
Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		Edited by: JustysiaS   Nov 12, 08, 16:34 /  #
i thought you'd know what aspekt dokonany and niedokonany is.
dać - to give
dawać - to be giving

dawaj can also mean hurry up, not just give [it to me]
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 16:50 /  #
JustysiaS:

i thought you'd know what aspekt dokonany and niedokonany is

A bit, but I don't get it in the context of the imperative.
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		Edited by: JustysiaS   Nov 12, 08, 17:00 /  #
osiol:

A bit, but I don't get it in the context of the imperative.


it's like when you say:
rób to (which comes from robić which is imperfect) it's like you were saying keep doing it
zrób to (which comes from zrobić which is perfect) it's like you were saying do this NOW

it's a bit awkward with daj and dawaj, but i suppose it makes sense when you translate it like this:
daj to - give it
dawaj to - keep giving it
but here both of those forms can be understood as give it NOW, and dawaj is actually stronger and sorta more aggressive than daj

is it any clearer now?
HuegThreads: 1
Posts: 428
Joined: Apr 16, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:05 /  #
so if I was asking for a hammer, one could be seen as the weaker 'pass me the hammer (when you've got a mo)' and the other as 'Give me the bloody hammer'?
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:07 /  #
yes pretty much that is right
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:07 /  #
Yes, thanks.
HuegThreads: 1
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Joined: Apr 16, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:08 /  #
ta muchly J :)
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		Edited by: JustysiaS   Nov 12, 08, 17:11 /  #
no problemo :) an even softer version of daj is podaj (pass on). and then there's podaj and podawaj, pass on and keep passing on ;)
HuegThreads: 1
Posts: 428
Joined: Apr 16, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:17 /  #
an even softer version

do you have one in bubble wrap? :) Interesting stuff J. This kind of thing facinates and infuriates to the same degree. It's why languages are great fun and natives so vital. You can't find this kind of thing in the library. :)
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:21 /  #
no unfortunately i don't work in a library :) if i ever need help with English idioms and slang words i will give you a shout lol
osiolThreads: 59
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Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:23 /  #
I thought that you are the library.
JustysiaSThreads: 15
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Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:28 /  #
if anything, i'm the dictionary ;)
SwiteziankaThreads: -
Posts: 525
Joined: Jun 17, 08 		  Nov 12, 08, 17:37 /  #
dać - to give
dawać - to be giving

:P
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,868
Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		Edited by: JustysiaS   Nov 12, 08, 17:39 /  #
yes as in i am giving, you are giving, sort of like present continuous
Piątek   May 16, 09, 02:27 /  #
These parallel verb forms drive me crazy in Polish, and nearly every verb has a parallel. I used to call them perfective and imperfective forms, but even this doesn't work. In Polish there's no distinction between perfect and imperfect forms. I have done and I did are both translated as Zrobiłem. The difference, in past-tense, lies in what we'd call in English the continuous tense. Robiłem is roughly equivalent to I was going.

Outside past-tense the difference creates the present and future tense. Robię means I do/I'm doing while Zrobię means I will do/I'm doing (it on friday, for example)

Dać and dawać is an equivalent verb pair meaning 'to give'. In this case, dam means I'll give, I give (this to you in a single instantaneous action, for example, while daję (from dawać) means I'm in the process of giving. And in a similar way, the past can be translated this way: Dałem = I gave, I have given, dawałem = I was giving.

So for the imperative, the future/perfective tense daj mi sól means give me the salt (at some point in the immediate future, in a reasonably expectable time), whereas dawaj mi sól means give me the salt now, at this instant (literally 'be in the process of giving me the salt as I speak')

Okay, I'm by no means fluent in Polish, but this is how I view these verb forms. I'd love it if somebody fluent in Polish can confirm or negate the accuracy of this explanation.

Ben
DaveyThreads: 17
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Joined: Jun 29, 07 		  May 16, 09, 03:22 /  #
JustysiaS:
if anything, i'm the dictionary ;)

You should teach Polish or something....
JustysiaSThreads: 15
Posts: 2,868
Joined: Oct 14, 07 Gold Member MEMBER Pictures: 2 		  May 16, 09, 11:30 /  #
Davey:
You should teach Polish or something....

i don't think i have the patience ha ha
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 12
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce   Jul 4, 09, 21:15 /  #
The book 301 Polish Verbs by Janecki has a section in the beginning with pretty good explanation of the differences between perfect and imperfect forms of Polish verbs.
ZiemowitThreads: 10
Posts: 1,056
Joined: May 8, 09 		Edited by: Ziemowit   Jul 6, 09, 12:57 /  #
osiol:
What's the difference between daj and dawaj then?

There doesn't seem to be any real difference between daj and dawaj in the imperative except - as has already been stated here - that the latter is stronger which will most often translate into being very familiar or just impolite. This is different, however, with the negative form of the imperative where the almost excusively heard form is nie dawaj rather than nie daj. Hence:

"Daj osłu marchewkę!" versus "Nie dawaj osłu marchewki!".

In sentences like: "Nie daj osłu marchewki ..." the imperative form "daj" sounds like expressing a certain condition in a conditional clause: "Nie daj osłu marchewki, a zobaczysz co ci zrobi", with the sense of: "Jeśli nie dasz mu marchewki, to na pewno coś ci zrobi". The same is true the other way round; "dawaj" will serve as a condition in sentences like: "Dawaj dzieciakowi pieniądze, a nie będzie chciał ich sam zarabiać." In the both given examples daj and dawaj seem to escape their literal meaning of a simple imperative.
michalekThreads: -
Posts: 59
Joined: Jun 14, 09 		  Jul 6, 09, 20:06 /  #
Ziemowit:
osiol:
What's the difference between daj and dawaj then?

it means the same :) but in sentence like "dawaj mi piwo" (give me a beer) dawaj sounds more rude for me :P

it's hard to explain but i will try
daj - means i want to drink this beer
dawaj - i have to drink it right now! i don't want to wait anymore

something like that :)
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07 		  Jul 6, 09, 20:45 /  #
The usage is nicely illustrated by this fragment from a prominent poet of the Polish Renaissance (Jan Kochanowski):

Daj, czegoć nie ubędzie, byś najwięcej dała;
Daj, czegoć próżno dawać potym będziesz chciała,
Kiedyć zmarszczki twarz orzą (…).

I'm not a poet so only a ballpark translation:

Give (me) what you won't lose regardless how much you give;
Give (me) what in vain you will like to give
When wrinkles mark (your) face (...)
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