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Which form of Imperative to use?


czarnykotThreads: 21
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Joined: May 10, 08
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  Mar 13, 09, 10:01 /  #
I thought the use of the Imperative was straightforward... But I am now really confused by what my Polish teacher says, my Polish friends say and what most books say. I am OK using the Imperative in an informal way, between friends, that are normally addressed in the 2nd person singular (ty). My problem concerns use of Imperative between strangers. The topic of 'Giving directions' is often addressed in Grammar books and by teachers in class. The form of the Imperative to use seems to be really varied.

Example: I'm in Warsaw and ask a stranger how to get to the railway station... What form of the Imperative would normally be used in the reply by the person unknown to me? I would first ask the question:

Przepraszam, zgubiłem się... proszę, czy Pan wie jak dojść do dworca kolejowego?

Would the reply be in the form of:

a) Tak, oczywiście. Najpierw, proszę iść prosto do skrzyżowania. Potem, na światłach, proszę skręcić w prawo, iść dalej prosto do następnego skrzyżowania i skręcić w lewo... itd.

b) Tak, oczywiście. Najpierw, idź prosto do skrzyżowania. Potem, na światłach, skręć w prawo, idź dalej prosto do następnego skrzyżowania i skręć w lewo... itd.

c) Tak, oczywiście. Najpierw, niech pan idzie do skrzyżowania. Potem, na światłach, niech pan skręci w prawo, niech pan idzie dalej prosto do następnego skrzyżowania i niech pan skręći w lewo... itd.

And then if was with my wife, asked the stranger in Warsaw the question:

Przepraszam, zgubiliśmy się... proszę, czy Pan wie jak dojść do dworca kolejowego?

Would the reply be in the form of:

a) Tak, oczywiście. Najpierw, proszę iść prosto do skrzyżowania. Potem, na światłach, proszę skręcić w prawo, iść dalej prosto do następnego skrzyżowania i skręcić w lewo... itd.

b) Tak, oczywiście. Najpierw, idźcie prosto do skrzyżowania. Potem, na światłach, skręćcie w prawo, idźcie dalej prosto do następnego skrzyżowania i skręćcie w lewo... itd.

c) Tak, oczywiście. Najpierw, niech państwo idą do skrzyżowania. Potem, na światłach, niech państwo skręcą w prawo, niech państwo idą dalej prosto do następnego skrzyżowania i niech państwo skręćą w lewo... itd.

Apologies for being so long-winded, but I'd really like to get to grips with which form of the Imperative to use, once and for all! It seems to me that replies b) are Informal replies, used with friends and would not be used when addressing a stranger. But then I may well be wrong. Do respective ages of the person asking, the person replying (both or all being strangers) affect the form of Imperative to be used?

Many thanks for any help offered.
Pozdrawiam.

mafketisThreads: 15
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Joined: Mar 31, 08
  Mar 13, 09, 11:00 /  #
Imperatives aren't used in giving directions IME.

You might use 'niech' once (though technically speaking niech isn't an imperative), but overall future tense (perfective) and the verb musieć are more used. You can also use trzeba.


Giving your example some wild guesses (which will probably be hilarious to Polish speakers):

Tu pan skręci w prawo, potem pan pójdzie prosto do pierwszej ulicy by skręcić w lewo ....

Pan musi pójść do pierszej ulicy i skręcić w prawo, potem pan pójdzie prosto do pierwszej ulicy by skręcić w lewo....

Trzeba pójść do pierwszej ulicy i skręcić w prawo, potem trzeba skręcić w następną ulicę w lewo ....

Also

zgubiłem się... this has connotations (I think) of existential or moral quandries

zabłądziłem is better, but you generally don't explain yourself like that.

A better tactic is just to ask.

Przepraszam pana, jak można/mogę dójść na dworzec?
or
Przepraszam pana, czy pan wie jak pójść stąd na dworzec?
czarnykotThreads: 21
Posts: 30
Joined: May 10, 08
Pictures: 1
  Mar 13, 09, 15:15 /  #
mafketis:
Imperatives aren't used in giving directions IME.

Thanks for your suggestions... Pan musi + Infinitive, or Trzeba + Infinitive seem to be much better Constructions re 'giving directions'. But in the above quote, what does IME stand for? I don't think I've come across this before...
gumishu   Mar 13, 09, 15:47 /  #
choice 'b' it is informal (question is in formal tone) so this is not a way to go

to me both 'a' and 'c' could well be applied here. both are polite enough
though 'a' seems a bit politer (but maybe it's just me)

Mafketis remarks are very reasonable.
Imperative in case of telling somebody (a stranger) a way is not used that much, at least in everyday speech. (this is an advice, after all, not an order)

Proszę mi przynieść papier - is a polite way of ordering someone to bring you paper
Niech mi pan przyniesie papier - is not that polite, just observes the respectful title pan
however
Pan mi przyniesie papier - looks like future perfective form (but actually you just need to omit niech in the previous sentence); it is in fact often used to give orders or requests (depending on intonation), and may be even less polite than the version with 'Niech' (but not always - 'cause niech might be simply omitted for the sake of economy of speaking)

btw. niech is roughly the same in meaning as 'let' (to let - niechać)
(niech skończy - let him finish)
the verb is, however, not used in modern Polish although some derivates are, like:
zaniechać, poniechać.

well - I guess we pretty much went to a very advanced Polish ;)
the rather advanced nature of the question might be an excuse :)
gumishu   Mar 13, 09, 15:51 /  #
If I were to choose between the choices 'a' and 'c' i would go for 'a' because it requires considerably less sylables to be spoken ;) and at the same time is more polite :)
(just lazy me)
mafketisThreads: 15
Posts: 1,830
Joined: Mar 31, 08
  Mar 13, 09, 16:38 /  #
czarnykot:
what does IME stand for?

In My Experience

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