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Archives / 2009 / Grammar, Usage / posts: 6

kran becomes kranu, herbata becomes herbatę



MichallikesThreads: 12
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 12, 09
  Aug 7, 09, 19:53 /  #
why did kran become kranu? Is it locative or something else?
this is part of the sentance, wody z kranu.

Another question:
Mieszamy herbatę.
Why did herbata or herbaty become herbatę? What is the grammatical term for this?
Was it herbata or herbaty before it became herbatę?

Thanks

jump_bunnyThreads: 8
Posts: 332
Joined: May 14, 09
  Aug 7, 09, 20:02 /  #
Ever heard of cases?
MichallikesThreads: 12
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 12, 09
Edited by: Michallikes   Aug 7, 09, 20:07 /  #
Yes I have heard of cases.

Nominative
Genitive
Locative etc.

Can you tell me which one it is?

And why kolory doesn't change in "Mieszamy kolory".

Thanks
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09
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Edited by: gumishu   Aug 7, 09, 20:50 /  #
Michallikes:
And why kolory doesn't change in "Mieszamy kolory".

mieszamy requires 'accusative' (biernik) - and accusative of kolory (which is a plural of a masculine noun) happens to have the same form as 'basic' - 'nominative' form of the noun - this is for all nouns in plural actually - except a class which is called 'personal masculine' (personal masculine is for example names of occupations/professions/positions held by males - Polish distinguishes robotnik from robotnica, lekkoatleta from lekkoatletka - the former are masculine the latter feminine (robotnik - worker/labourer, robotnica - femala worker, pracownik - employee, pracownica - female emloyee)

ci pracownicy - these employees te pracownice - these female employees
widzę tych pracowników - I can see these employees
widzę te pracownice - I cans see these female employees

(widzę requires accusative case just as mieszam(y) does - you can see that for "pracownicy", a masculine personal, accusative does not have the same form as the 'nominative' (basic form) (but accusative is equal to genetive in this class)

in general youprobably already noticed that Polish declination system is pretty irregular (unlike Hungarian as far as I know - though maybe there are languages with even more irregularities to their declination)

aha

now prepositions - 'z' is preposition in Polish require specific cases as well

'z' is a bit problematic here because it actually has at least 2 basic meanings

the first is 'z' = 'with' and it requires 'instrumental' - it is often described as a question - z kim/ z czym? with whom/ with what?

the other meaning of 'z' is - out of, from (sometimes off) - this is the case here - z kranu - from the/a tap (out of the/a tap) - this one requires 'genetive' kran, z czego? - z kranu?
SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13
Posts: 1,915
Joined: Feb 21, 09
Edited by: SzwedwPolsce   Aug 8, 09, 00:30 /  #
Michallikes:
Mieszamy herbatę.
Why did herbata or herbaty become herbatę? What is the grammatical term for this?
Was it herbata or herbaty before it became herbatę?

Herbata is the nominative case (singular).
Herbatę is the accusative case (singular).
Herbaty is the genitive case (singular).

Herbaty is also the nominative and accusative cases in plural.

Mieszamy herbatę is in this way because herbatę is the direct object of the sentence. I guess you know what direct object means. And the direct object always requires the accusative case.


Michallikes:
why did kran become kranu? Is it locative or something else?
this is part of the sentance, wody z kranu.

No, in this case it's not the locative case. After the preposition z (if you mean from something) you should use the genitive case. Genitive of kran in kranu.

(If you use the prep. z in the meaning "with someone/something" you should use the instrumental case.)


Oh, now I saw that gumishu already wrote some of this.
MichallikesThreads: 12
Posts: 50
Joined: Jul 12, 09
  Aug 8, 09, 14:38 /  #
Hi all,

Thanks for your help. I must look this stuff up and I will come back to you if I have any problems.

Thanks

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