Parę - two or a few?

cinek
para - a couple, two (people):

M. para (ludzi)
D. pary (ludzi)
C. parze (ludzi)
B. parę (ludzi)
N. parą (ludzi)
Mc. parze (ludzi)
W. paro (ludzi)

parę - a couple, a few (people)

M. parę (ludzi)
D. paru (ludzi)
C. paru (ludziom)
B. parę (ludzi)
N. paroma (ludźmi)
Mc. paru (ludziach)
W. parę (ludzi)

cinekThreads: 1 Posts: 264 Joined: Nov 16, 07	May 11, 09, 10:51 / #
Some time ago I heard a conversation (in English) between two people where one was an American and the other was a Pole, and the word 'couple' was used. They misunderstood each other because the American meant 'two' when saying 'couple' and the Pole understood it as 'a few'. I don't know if there's a way to easily distinguish those two meanings in English, but in Polish it appears that they have different declension. So for those who are interested: para - a couple, two (people): M. para (ludzi) D. pary (ludzi) C. parze (ludzi) B. parę (ludzi) N. parą (ludzi) Mc. parze (ludzi) W. paro (ludzi) parę - a couple, a few (people) M. parę (ludzi) D. paru (ludzi) C. paru (ludziom) B. parę (ludzi) N. paroma (ludźmi) Mc. paru (ludziach) W. parę (ludzi) Cinek

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 11, 09, 14:47 / #
Good question. I've never fully understood this either. Mam pary rzeczy do zrobienie means I have a few things to do, I think anyway. Para is most definitely a pair, as in a couple.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	May 11, 09, 15:34 / #
'Kilka' (inanimate) and 'kilku' (animate or animate masculine) mean 'a few', I think, and also used only with genitive. LOL I remember somewhere, though perhaps faultily: kilkA lat temu... vs. kilkU ludzi, gości, mężczyzń, etc... kilka kwiat..... etc... Marek

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	May 11, 09, 16:19 / #
The thing is that (other than actual numerals) in Polish we have one word "para", while in English there is "a couple" and "a pair". The former may mean "a few", the latter is more restricted in its meaning. I think in general polish "para" may be used in the same contexts as English "a couple".

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07	May 26, 09, 00:25 / #
A para is a pair and the Polish word parę is totally different.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09	May 28, 09, 18:21 / #
Michal: A para is a pair and the Polish word parę is totally different. totally different in meaning - though it appears that 'parę' was originally a declination form of 'para'

SwiteziankaThreads: - Posts: 525 Joined: Jun 17, 08	May 30, 09, 22:55 / #
parę - a couple of

jakubzurawskiThreads: - Posts: 20 Joined: Dec 1, 08	Edited by: jakubzurawski Jul 17, 09, 13:58 / #
cinek para - a couple, two (people): M. para (ludzi) D. pary (ludzi) C. parze (ludzi) B. parę (ludzi) N. parą (ludzi) Mc. parze (ludzi) W. paro (ludzi) parę - a couple, a few (people) M. parę (ludzi) D. paru (ludzi) C. paru (ludziom) B. parę (ludzi) N. paroma (ludźmi) Mc. paru (ludziach) W. parę (ludzi) The word "para" is a noun which means "a couple". The word "parę" is a "numeral" which means "some" or "a few". "parę" behaves the same way as the word "kilka". Both the words ("parę" and "kilka") have a declension similar to adjectives but as they only refer to multiple objects they don't have the "singular" part of the declension. To ilustrate the full declension of "parę" we need add the declension for "personal masculine" grammatical gender (rodzaj męskoosobowy) to Cinek's table. In the table below there are two words used "osoba" (person) which is feminine and "ludzie" (people) which is of personal masculine gender. M. parę (osób), paru (ludzi) D. paru (osób / ludzi) C. paru (osobom / ludziom) B. parę (osób), paru (ludzi) N. paroma (osobami / ludźmi) Mc. paru (osobach / ludziach) W. parę (osób / ludzi) that's it :)

Lyzko	Jul 20, 09, 23:40 / #
Therefore, the time expression "za parę dni" probably means "for a couple of days", that is, more than one, most likely two days (as in English) compared with "several", which could be anywhere between three to four days, I'm guessing.

GabThreads: - Posts: 154 Joined: Apr 10, 08	Jul 21, 09, 04:49 / #
"Za parę dni" means "In a couple of days". "For a couple of days" is "Na parę dni".

Lyzko	Jul 21, 09, 14:47 / #
Oh, I must have forgotten-:) LOL As always, thanks Gab!! ))))

Lyzko	Jul 22, 09, 14:11 / #
Slightly off thread here, how about the differences between 'przeszły' and 'zeszły' vs. 'ostatny'? Byłem zeszłego miesiąca na urlopie w Francjii. Byłem przeszłego miesiąca na urlopie w Francjii. (Both mean the same, I gather) vs. To jest ostatny raz, że będę podróżować razem z Dorotą!! All appear to mean 'last', but is my usage idiomatically correct Polish? -:)

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Jul 22, 09, 15:43 / #
Lyzko: Byłem w zeszłym miesiącu na urlopie we Francji. Lyzko: Byłem przeszłego miesiąca na urlopie w Francjii. (Both mean the same, I gather) That's old fashioned way not used anymore. Lyzko: To jest ostatni raz, że będę podróżować razem z Dorotą!!

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Jul 22, 09, 15:56 / #
To [jest] ostatni raz, kiedy/gdy będę podróżować razem z Dorotą.

GabThreads: - Posts: 154 Joined: Apr 10, 08	Jul 21, 09, 22:12 / #
Sure :)

Lyzko	Jul 22, 09, 17:07 / #
Dzięki! Trudności pisania języka polskiego dla cudodziemców-:)) Boże mój!

axidThreads: - Posts: 27 Joined: Jun 28, 09	Jul 28, 09, 22:21 / #
ostatni is a word suggesting that something is final, won't happen or occur again. zeszły is a referrence to a bygone period of time. hence, you can use last in both cases but the meaning is different, like: ostatni poniedziałek to ostatni dzień mojej pracy. last monday (was) the last day of my work.

Lyzko	Jul 28, 09, 23:53 / #
Zrozumiałem-:) Bardzo dobre tłumaczenie, axid! Widzę, że mieszkasz w Łodzie. Czy mam rację, najważniejsze miasto polskich filmów nazywa się 'Hollyłódź'?? Czy to żart? LOL If I have right, most important town polish films calls 'Hollyłódź', or is like joke?

cinekThreads: 1 Posts: 264 Joined: Nov 16, 07	Jul 29, 09, 13:06 / #
Lyzko: Slightly off thread here, how about the differences between 'przeszły' and 'zeszły' vs. 'ostatny'? Zeszły means last in contexts like 'last month', last Monday' etc. Przeszły means 'soemathing that was in the past and does not exist any longer', however it's hardly ever used today (except the name of past tense 'czas przeszły'). It's also a form of 'przejść' (i.e. 3rd p pl. non-masc. past tense). Cinek

Lyzko	Jul 29, 09, 14:20 / #
Świetny, cinku:)))) Dziękuję też! Więc 'zeszły' pochodzi z czasowniku 'zejść', formy dokonanej dla 'zachodzić', nieprawda? I'm sort of guessing at that last one. LOL

Lyzko	Jul 29, 09, 14:21 / #
Uj, przepraszam! ".......z czasownikA.....", czy nie?? )))))

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Edited by: Ziemowit Jul 29, 09, 16:07 / #
Z czasownika "schodzić". The z changes to s before the letter ch as there is no way to pronounce it voiced before that letter.

michalekThreads: - Posts: 59 Joined: Jun 14, 09	Jul 29, 09, 16:36 / #
Lyzko: If I have right, most important town polish films calls 'Hollyłódź', or is like joke? its a joke, i live here, the film company was famous in late 80's and early 90's but not now... as i know there is a sound-recording studio right now (called 'toya studios') :)

Lyzko	Jul 29, 09, 17:10 / #
Dzięki, Ziemowitu i Michałku-:) Ale nigdy nie wiedziałem, że 's' został 'z', 'Schodzić' > 'Zeszły'! Interesujące.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09	Jul 30, 09, 09:12 / #
In fact, it is the other way round, the z becomes s here (z -> s). jeździć -> zjeździć (no need to change the z in the prefix into s here) chodzić -> z+chodzić -> schodzić jadać -> zjadać chrupać -> z+chrupać -> schrupać robić -> zrobić kłamać -> z+kłamać -> skłamać

KrzysztofThreads: 2 Posts: 1,146 Joined: Jul 26, 07	Edited by: Krzysztof Jul 30, 09, 11:18 / #
What Ziemowit wrote + extra info about the z- prefix: I. The general rule: if the word starts with 1/ a vowel (a, e, i, o, u) or 2/ a voiced consonant (b, d, g, j, l, ł, m, n, r, w, z, dź/dzi) or 3/ the letter "h" or 4/ the voiceless sounds "s", "sz" "si/ś" - the prefix stays unchanged (z-) II. Before words starting with a voiceless consonants - it's more complicated, the prefix is changed from z- to s- before the following voiceless consonants: p, f, t, k, c, cz, ch III. If the first sound in the root word is the voiceless and soft "ci/ć", the "z-" prefix through voiceless "s-" becomes softened "ś-" (for example: ciąć >> ściąć, cierpieć >> ścierpieć). Note: Historically "h" was voiced and "ch" voiceless, today both are pronounced as a voiceless "h", but the old rules remained and create some confusion among native speakers. No words in this context begin with "ś" or "dź" or "ć", I just used them to underline the soft pronounciation the combinations "si", "dzi", "ci".

Lyzko	Jul 30, 09, 14:40 / #
Ślicznie dziękuję za mały zarys historyczny o rozwoju różnych spółgłosów języka polskiego! Doskonale piszesz po angielsku, Krzyśiu-:) Ale jesteś także tłumaczem, dlatego bardzo dobrze umiesz po kilku językom. Tłumaczesz z włoskiego na polski, czy z polskiego na włoski? Normalnie tłlumacze się tylko z języka ojczystego!