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sobie sobie sobie sobie sobie

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 16:53 / #
Why are there no threads on PF where anyone asks about this word? How does it work?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 16:57 / #
For me, it is close to tobie, just referring to oneself instead. Myśle o tobie (I am thinking of you) Myślisz tylko o sobie (you only think about yourself).

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 17:03 / #
Does it refer to the person in the verb like swoj/swoja/swoje does?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 17:10 / #
Can you give an example of what you mean please Osioł! It'd help. Sobie is reflexive.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 17:14 / #
I don't need to give an example. Seanus: Sobie is reflexive. I'm ready to give it a tap on the knee with a small rubber mallet.

cjjcThreads: 37 Posts: 463 Joined: Jul 26, 08	Jan 7, 09, 17:20 / #
Seanus: Can you give an example I can: o sobie: :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 17:22 / #
I think that was given above :)

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 17:32 / #
Quite often verbs have things like subjects and objects. If I were to say lubię, then I am the subject. If I say lubisz, then you are the subject. If a verb is accompanied by sobie, does that sobie thing refer to the subject?

polishgirltx	Jan 7, 09, 17:34 / #
osiol: does that sobie thing refer to the subject? "Zaraz zrobisz sobie krzywdę" - how would you translate that?

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 17:41 / #
polishgirltx: how would you translate that? Maybe I wouldn't actually bother translating it. You're not about to do me an injury, are you?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Jan 7, 09, 17:43 / #
Ya, sob ya. as an example, of course.

polishgirltx	Jan 7, 09, 17:45 / #
osiol: You're not about to do me an injury, are you? not just yet... ;) "Zaraz zrobisz sobie krzywdę" you are about to hurt yourself

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 7, 09, 18:11 / #
It does refer to the verb's subject then. Has this word got anything to do with się? Does it appear in many bizarre and varied forms that I'm just not aware of yet?

cjjcThreads: 37 Posts: 463 Joined: Jul 26, 08	Jan 7, 09, 19:10 / #
I struggle with it all I mean I have not researched this because I'm hoping I will learn it on a Polish course but why is there: Cię Ciebie Się Ty Sobie Tobie (and there is probably more!) It confuses me. You don't have to answer I'm just stating: It confuses me! :D

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 8, 09, 12:28 / #
polishgirltx: you are about to hurt yourself ... but after that little masochistic exercise, I still have unanswered questions. Less at the moment than cjjc, but I still need some more examples of sobie in different forms of usage.

cjjcThreads: 37 Posts: 463 Joined: Jul 26, 08	Jan 8, 09, 12:30 / #
osiol: Less at the moment than cjjc Yeah I know I'm a pain and I kind hijacked the thread! :P

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 8, 09, 12:44 / #
That's okay as long as someone actually gives me a little help with sobie. się - just occurs after some verbs. Why? Because it just does. You should know by now: uczyć - to teach uczyć się - to teach oneself, ie. to learn ty is just you (nominative case) as in ty jesteś: you are tobie is just you (some other case, possibly locative) as in o tobie: about you (see o o osłach: about a donkey (great book, great film) or na osłach: on a donkey, etc. etc.) Others you mentioned I either don't fully understand or just can't be bothered to try to explain at the moment! SOBIE SOBIE SOBIE SOBIE ? ? ? ?

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Jan 8, 09, 13:02 / #
osiol: Has this word got anything to do with się? Yes, it is the same word just in the dative case - i.e. "to yourself".

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Jan 8, 09, 13:05 / #
benszymanski: Yes, it is the same word just in the dative case - i.e. "to yourself". Thanks for being the only person to give a decent answer. That's still not quite everything though. How do I use it? Or rather, how should I use it?

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Edited by: benszymanski Jan 8, 09, 13:17 / #
Any time you want to construct a sentence with a reflexive that is also dative - such as: give yourself a break - daj sobie spokój they help each other [lit. they help to each other] - pomagają sobie can't think of any other examples of the top of my head but hope that helps... Seanus: Myślisz tylko o sobie Should that not be o siebie?

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Jan 9, 09, 01:07 / #
benszymanski: Should that not be o siebie? Sorry - ignore me - am talking rubbish. Some words require siebie such as dla and now I am confusing myself...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 9, 09, 08:07 / #
Sam siebie is a more normal combination I'd say. Then again, nie jestem polakiem, więc...

SiegfriedThreads: 2 Posts: 103 Joined: Aug 8, 08	Edited by: Siegfried Jan 9, 09, 08:35 / #
myślisz tylko o sobie - all you think about is yourself kupuję sobie - I am buying sth for myself idę sobie - I am just walking somewhere śpiewam sobie - I am just singing sth kopię sobie - I am just digging/kicking sth beware: kupię sobie - I am going to buy sth for myself pójdę sobie - I am going to go somewhere zaśpiewam sobie - I am going to sing wykopię/ zakopię/ pokopię sobie - I am going to dig out/in/ just dig jestem w domu - I am at home jestem u siebie w domu- I am at my home about "się" - it generally points action YOU perform (sometimes to yourself) myję się (I wash myself???? have no idea is it correct) , but "myję samochód" (I wash a car) uczę się (I learn) but "uczę sąsiada" (I teach my neighbour) boję się - I am scared hmm, a bit complicated, if you are novice, dont bother about those details, you will understand it in future (or not).

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Jan 9, 09, 08:58 / #
Siegfried: idę sobie Ah yes - there are those idiomatic uses as well!

sausageThreads: 25 Posts: 1,053 Joined: Sep 21, 07	Jan 9, 09, 09:12 / #
benszymanski: Ah yes - there are those idiomatic uses as well! I am interested in the literal translation of "tak sobie" which you may answer in response to jak się masz... tak sobie = so, so = so myself?

benszymanskiThreads: 9 Posts: 510 Joined: Feb 29, 08	Jan 9, 09, 09:16 / #
I don't think there is a literal translation of that because it is purely idiomatic. Pretty much just means "so so".

Piątek	May 16, 09, 20:12 / #
osiol: Does it refer to the person in the verb like swoj/swoja/swoje does? Sobie is to swój, się and siebie as tobie is to twój and ciebie. Się is a shorter form of siebie, as well as being part of many reflexive and non-reflexive verbs. Siebie is the genitive, used with verbs for (I believe) emphasis (instead of się), but primarily used with prepositions. Mam coś dla siebie - I have something for myself Idziecie obok siebie - They're walking side-by-side (beside each other) Nie można zyć bez siebie - It's not possible to live without oneself Nie można iść do siebie - It's not possible to walk toward oneself Nie można iść od siebie - It's not possible to walk away from oneself Beside the aforementioned dative 'for yourself' uses, sobie is the locative form of the same word, which is used with a limited number of other prepositions. Mam w sobie wielki huragan - I have within me a great hurricane Myślisz tylko o sobie - you think only of/about yourself Zatrzymaj to przy sobie - keep this by/on yourself Nie wolno mieć na sobie kombinezonu astronauty w szkole - you can't wear (have on yourself) a spacesuit at school

jump_bunnyThreads: 8 Posts: 332 Joined: May 14, 09	May 16, 09, 21:24 / #
What about 'se'? It's obviously not official Polish but one Polish friend of mine is overusing this word in her written Polish. She knows it's not correct as she does it only while chatting online. I find it quite amusing when she says: 'ide se' or 'kupie se'. She says 'niet' instead of 'nie' too.

Lyzko	May 16, 09, 21:42 / #
...and don't forget the Instrumental (narzędnik) Case either, n.pr. Między SOBĄ......... Marek

cinekThreads: 1 Posts: 248 Joined: Nov 16, 07	Edited by: cinek May 18, 09, 16:56 / #
osiol: does that sobie thing refer to the subject? Exactly. Siebie and sobie (and sobą too) are different cases of the same word. They are used when the subjects do action on themselves. Here's the declension: M. (none, because object is never in nominative in Polish) D. siebie (or się) C. sobie B. siebie (or się) N. (z, ze) sobą Mc. (o, na, w...) sobie W. (none, as for nominative) examples: D. Wysłał list do siebie. He sent a letter to himself. C. Obciął sobie palec. He cut his finger off. B. Rozpoznał siebie w lustrze. He recognised himself in the mirror. N. Rozmawiał sam ze sobą. He talked to himself. Mc. Opowiedział o sobie. The told about himself. EDIT: In D and B siebie is used when emphasized. Otherwise się is more natural. But if a preposition is put before D then it must be siebie (not się) - as in the example above. Cinek

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