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Ancient Polish History thread




Mala_Elf Activity: 13 / 18
Joined: May 2, 2007 ♀
  Sep 27, 2007, 02:46pm /  #1
I want to learn Ancient Polish History and all of the Kings, as much as possible. But I don't have time to read a great deal of material. Could anyone start a History Thread which has some kind of order to it? I would be so grateful =)

osiol Activity: 56 / 3,961
Joined: Jul 25, 2007 ♂
  Sep 27, 2007, 02:53pm /  #2
Perhaps someone could start with the furthest back in time, and try to work forwards from there.
Tall order, I know.

I was talking to someone about Stonehenge. It got me thinking: what is the oldest surviving relic in Poland?
Any standing stones? That sort of thing.

Grzegorz_ Activity: 54 / 5,708
Joined: Nov 16, 2006 ♂
  Sep 27, 2007, 02:56pm /  #3
Baptism of Poland

The Baptism of Poland (Polish: Chrzest Polski) was the event in 966 that signified the beginning of the Christianization of Poland, commencing with the baptism of Mieszko I, who was the first ruler of the Polish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_Poland



Mieszko I

Poznan   Sep 27, 2007, 03:01pm /  #4
Biskupin is probably the oldest known settlement and still has ruins there mostly of wood, I believe. It dates from before Christ, so it is quite old. It is near Poznan.

Mala_Elf Activity: 13 / 18
Joined: May 2, 2007 ♀
  Sep 27, 2007, 03:18pm /  #5
Thank you, Grzegorz_; this is wonderful =)

Crow Activity: 113 / 3,634
Joined: Feb 14, 2007 ♂
  Sep 27, 2007, 03:22pm /  #6
Ancient history of Poles... finaly something realy interesting

I can try to contribute to this trip into past. Can I?

On he first look I noticed this ...

Quoting: osiol
I was talking to someone about Stonehenge.

Well, according to genetic foundings, there is possibility that ancestral culture of Stonehenge builders was some ancient culture of central Europe. Which culture that can be question is now?

He is the earliest metalworker known from Britain, and his grave contained the earliest gold objects in Britain. Tests on his teeth showed that he came from central Europe.

Source:

Stonehenge 'builders' found

RUSSELL JACKSON

//news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=707072004



Quoting: Poznan
Biskupin is probably the oldest known settlement and still has ruins there mostly of wood, I believe. It dates from before Christ, so it is quite old. It is near Poznan.

Far from that, that Biskupin represent `oldest known settlement` but, you are on the good way to undertstand meaning of Biskupin if you say that it represent remain (was part) of probably oldest culture of old world (Europe).

More about ...

Biskupin (Poland)

archaeology.about.com/od/bterms/g/biskupin.htm

The Biskupin site is a fortified settlement in Poland and, belonging to the Lausitz (Late Bronze age) and Hallstatt C (Early Iron age) cultures. That was a walled settlement of about 800-1000 people in the Warta River Valley about 2700 BC. The site was discovered in the 1930s and excavated by Jozef Kostrzewsk of Poznan University.


Grzegorz_ Activity: 54 / 5,708
Joined: Nov 16, 2006 ♂
  Sep 27, 2007, 05:18pm /  #7
After Baptism Poland became internationally recognized state. It was created in 10th century - some of western Slavic tribes were united by the strongest of them - Polanie (that's why the name Polska). Duke Mieszko I is the first historically known ruler of Poland. Before him there was probably Siemomysł, Leszek and Siemowit but the last two were probably only rulers of a tribal state. They created dynasty of Piasts. The first capital was Gniezno - now a small town near Poznań. Mieszko I was probably born in 930 and died on 25th May 992. Poland took Christianity from Czechs. Mieszko got married with a Czech princess Dobrawa.

Pratush Activity: - / 3
Joined: Sep 27, 2007 ♂
  Sep 27, 2007, 09:55pm /  #8
the ancient history of Poland would basically go into ancient slavic history and mythology....

Patrycja19 Activity: 62 / 2,721
Joined: Oct 31, 2006 ♀
  Sep 27, 2007, 11:36pm /  #9
Quoting: Crow
Ancient history of Poles... finaly something realy interesting


amen!

keep it going

what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?

I truley find this amazing, because if it werent for their preseverance and courage
where would we be today?

hold your glass high to them.. Ancestors!

Lukasz Activity: 56 / 1,788
Joined: Sep 1, 2007 ♂
  Sep 28, 2007, 06:58am /  #10
first well known battle ... Germans vs Poles part 1 ;)))

Second phase of the battle

our old borders (by the way simillar to todays)

werewew

ConstantineK Activity: 27 / 1,267
Joined: May 10, 2007 ♂
  Sep 28, 2007, 08:27am /  #11
Quoting: Patrycja19
Quoting: Crow
Ancient history of Poles... finaly something realy interesting


amen!

keep it going

what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?

I truley find this amazing, because if it werent for their preseverance and courage
where would we be today?

hold your glass high to them.. Ancestors!


I dont know exactly about Polish nations, but russian peoples for example, were settled on the present territory approx. at the 7-th cent. and played imortant role in Byzantine politic at 8 cent. But Bulgars even older they settled on Balcans at 5-6 cent and emmideatly orgnized pretty large state, and played huge role not only in this region but in all european's affairs untill Turcic invasion.

Lukasz Activity: 56 / 1,788
Joined: Sep 1, 2007 ♂
  Sep 28, 2007, 08:40am /  #12
I dont know exactly about Polish nations, but russian peoples for example, were settled on the present territory approx. at the 7-th cent. and played imortant role in Byzantine politic at 8 cent. But Bulgars even older they settled on Balcans at 5-6 cent and emmideatly orgnized pretty large state, and played huge role not only in this region but in all europe affairs untill Turcic invasion.

LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)

and work on feeling of self-respect ;)

where are Russians ? Poles are noticable in two places (todays Ukraina and Poland)

ConstantineK Activity: 27 / 1,267
Joined: May 10, 2007 ♂
  Sep 28, 2007, 09:26am /  #13
Quoting: Lukasz
Quoting: ConstantineK
I dont know exactly about Polish nations, but russian peoples for example, were settled on the present territory approx. at the 7-th cent. and played imortant role in Byzantine politic at 8 cent. But Bulgars even older they settled on Balcans at 5-6 cent and emmideatly orgnized pretty large state, and played huge role not only in this region but in all europe affairs untill Turcic invasion.



LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)

and work on feeling of self-respect ;)

where are Russians ? Poles are noticable in two places (todays Ukraina and Poland)


Russians and Ukranians, are the same nation. They deverse only by dialects

Quoting: Lukasz
LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)

and work on feeling of self-respect ;)

where are Russians ? Poles are noticable in two places (todays Ukraina and Poland)


Moreover it's wrong map, Bulgaria never been a Kingdom, it was Tsardom or Empire.

Quoting: Lukasz
LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)


No I hadnt any ideas to present Russians as an eldest brother in Slavic family. Poles and Russians approximetly have one age!

osiol Activity: 56 / 3,961
Joined: Jul 25, 2007 ♂
  Sep 28, 2007, 09:43am /  #14
Quoting: ConstantineK
Tsardom

Tsar derives from a Roman name, Caesar.
An Empire can be a monarchy or republic.
These are just titles.
Monarchy = Kingdom
I am posting this from the United Queendom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Lukasz Activity: 56 / 1,788
Joined: Sep 1, 2007 ♂
  Sep 28, 2007, 09:43am /  #15
Quoting: ConstantineK
No I hadnt any ideas to present Russians as an eldest brother in Slavic family. Poles and Russians approximetly have one age!


ok, lets leave it :)

Grzegorz_ Activity: 54 / 5,708
Joined: Nov 16, 2006 ♂
  Sep 29, 2007, 07:57am /  #16
Quoting: Patrycja19
what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?


Yes. Polanie, Mazowszanie, Wi¶lanie, Pomorzanie, ¦lężanie and many smaller tribes.



Some of them created their own states like Wi¶lanie, who had a quite strong state already in IXth century but later went under infuence of Czechs. At the beginning of Xth century Polanie started expansion and in the middle of the century except their homeland (Poznań area now called Wielkopolska - Greater Poland) controlled also Mazowsze (Warsaw area) and Kujawy (Bydgoszcz area). Before the end of Xth century they united (partly willingly , partly by force) other tribes and controlled area similar to modern day Poland (map in post 12).

In 967 the Polish ruler defeated German Count Wichman and his allies. In 972 at the Battle of Cedynia, Mieszko defeated Hodo of the Eastern March. Mieszko I died in 992. His successor was his son Bolesław Chrobry (Bolesław the brave).

Bolesław I Chrobry



Bolesław I Chrobry was born in 967, died on 17th June 1025.

Boleslaw continued the work of his father. At the Congress of Gniezno (1000) he was able to persuade Emperor Otto III to give his permission to create the first Polish archbishopric. Otto III died two years later.

Frustrated in his efforts to form an equal partnership with the Holy Roman Empire, Boleslaw gained some non-Polish territory in a series of wars against his imperial overlord in 1003 and 1004. Boleslaw I conquered the imperial March of Meissen (Polish Mi¶nia) and also Lausitz (Latin Lusatia, Polish Łużyce). Boleslaw conquered and made himself duke of Bohemia in 1003, but lost the territory the following year. Then turned eastward. He defeated the Rus' and stormed Kyiv in 1018. Shortly before his death in 1025, Boleslaw won international recognition as the first king of a fully sovereign Poland.

Lukasz Activity: 56 / 1,788
Joined: Sep 1, 2007 ♂
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:09am /  #17
yes Chrobry was OK ;)

rdwer3e3

Crow Activity: 113 / 3,634
Joined: Feb 14, 2007 ♂
  Sep 29, 2007, 04:04pm /  #18
Quoting: Patrycja19
what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?

Let`s investigate

Quoting: Grzegorz_
Polanie, Mazowszanie, Wi¶lanie, Pomorzanie, ¦lężanie and many smaller tribes.

Just for comparision... Sarmatian tribes:

- Abii, Achaei, Acibi, Agathyrsi, Agoritae, Alans (Alauni, Halani, Alanorsi), Alontae, Amadoci, Amaxobi, Amazones, Anartophracti, Aorsi (Adorsi, Alanorsi), Arichi, Arsietae, Asaei, Aspurgiani, Atmoni, Avarini
- Basilici, BasternaeBessi, Biessi, Bosporani Bulgarians, Bodini, Borusci, Burgiones
- Carbones, Careotae, Cariones, Carpians, Caucasii, Cercetae, Chaenides, Chuni, Cimmerians, Costoboci, Conapseni
- Diduri
- Exobygitae
- Fenni (Tacitus was not sure if Fenni were Sarmatians or Germanic people)
- Hamaksoikoi, Heniochi, Hippophagi
- Galactophagi, Galindae, Gelones, Gerri, Gevini, Greater Venedae, Gythones
- Hippemolgi, Hippopodes, Hyperboreans, Horouathos
- Iaxamatae, Iazyges, Igylliones, Isondae
- Materi, Melanchlaeni, Melanchlani, Metibi, Modoca, Mysi
- Nasci, Navari, Nesioti
- Ombrones, Ophlones, Orinei, Osili, Ossi
- Pagyritae, Perierbidi, Peucini, Piengitae, Phrungundiones, Phthirophagi, Psessi
- Rheucanali, Rhoxolani
- Saboci, Sacani, Saii, Sargati, Savari, Scythian Alani, Senaraei, Serboi, Sidoni, Siraces, Stavani, Sturni, Suani, Suanocolchi, Suardeni, Sudini, Sulones
- Tanaitae, Tauroscythae, Thatemeotae, Tigri, Toreccadae, Transmontani, Tusci, Tyrambae, Tyrangitae
- Udae
- Vali, Veltae, Venedae, Vibiones
- Zacatae, Zinchi

Surce:
Sarmatians
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians

NOTE: Have in mind that all first chronicles were written by Greek and Roman authors. So, first written data about Proto Slavs went thru Greek/Latin transcription. Still, we can notice names which are obviously Slavic.


This can be interesting considering that modern science (on the base of old data and newest scientific results) established connection between ancestors of modern Slavic nations (with that Polish too), old Sarmatians, Scythians, ancient Aryans, etc.

See on the same link


Geography of Ptolemy, which includes the entire Balto-Slavic territory in Sarmatia, and on the other that this same region was Scythia. By "Sarmatia", Jordanes means only the Aryan territory. The Sarmatians therefore did come from the Scythians.

Then


"As Goths advanced near to the Euxine (Black Sea) they encountered a purer race of Sarmatians, the Iazyges, the Alani and the Roxolani." Sarmatian tribes were no doubt Slavic. Jordanes gave the history of interaction between the Sclaveni and the Goths as they moved from Scandinavia circa 200 AD. "Sarmatian tribes were distinguished by Sclavonic language."

Source:
gog & magog
geocities.com/amuse_amenace/gog.htm

The ancestors of the Slavs are believed to have included the Sarmatians and Scythians. Moving west from central Asia, they settled in eastern and southeastern Europe during the 2nd and 3rd millennia BC.

Source:
Hutchinson encyclopedia
Slav
encyclopedia.farlex.com/Slavs

Using the decoded Scithian-Sarmatian-Meotian calendar, one can decode the records of this Western Slavonic calendar.

Source:
THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WESTERN SLAVONIC INSCRIPTIONS
by Sergei V. Rjabchikov, Krasnodar, RUSSIA
public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl4.htm

Besides, not all the Scythians spoke an Iranian language (Trubachev 1981). In my opinion, the Scythian (Sarmatian) language is the Proto-Slavonic one. Other Proto-Slavonic dialects are the languages of the Pelasges (the writing of Linear A, and its decorative version on the Phaistos disk) and of the Etruscans (Rjabchikov 1998a).

Earlier I decoded the text of the Phaistos disk which is a Proto-Slavonic calendar (Rjabchikov 1998a: 6-9). As a result, the god Hor (Old Russian Hors, Egyptian Horus) with the epithet Kolo 'Round' and the god Vit (Slavonic Vit with different epithets, Indo-Aryan Savitar) were the symbols of the winter solstice; the bull god Yarila was associated with the spring (1).

Source:
THE SCYTHIANS, SARMATIANS, MEOTIANS, RUSSIANS AND CIRCASSIANS: INTERPRETATION OF THE ANCIENT CULTURES
by Sergei V. Rjabchikov
public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl2.htm



Quoting: osiol
Tsar derives from a Roman name, Caesar.

Truth

Patrycja19 Activity: 62 / 2,721
Joined: Oct 31, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 08:34pm /  #19
Quoting: Crow
Carbones, Careotae, Cariones,


crow, not to poke any fun at any names, but I typed in carbone and it brought up
alot of family resturants and businesses... so the tribes managed to make it to
the united states and start their own businesses :)))

and they been in business since before 966 :))

Quoting: Crow
Moving west from central Asia, they settled in eastern and southeastern Europe during the 2nd and 3rd millennia BC.


this is what I question also.. so Poles , Russian, German etc all came from central
Asia?

Quoting: Grzegorz_
Yes. Polanie, Mazowszanie, Wi¶lanie, Pomorzanie, ¦lężanie and many smaller tribes.


why the seperation? if they are all same people? why not be one tribe?

Kaczor Duck Activity: 2 / 97
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 ♂
  Sep 29, 2007, 08:40pm /  #20
my friend gave me a bok on polish history going back to the 900's maybe sooner, i will lookfor it tomorrow and post the info on it, it is good.
dobronoc

Patrycja19 Activity: 62 / 2,721
Joined: Oct 31, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 08:47pm /  #21
Quoting: Kaczor Duck
going back to the 900's maybe sooner, i will lookfor it tomorrow and post the info on it, it is good.


ty KD.. that will be interesting to read :) thanks Dobranoc

Crow Activity: 113 / 3,634
Joined: Feb 14, 2007 ♂
  Sep 29, 2007, 08:56pm /  #22
Let me tell you something

If USA has such a rich history such is Polish or Slavic in general, USA would make even bigger business then they make it now.

So, tell me... What`s the problem with Poles/Slavs?

I say, we are capable for big business

dobronoc

Da, dobra noć

ili isto to na drugi način (or to say it on other way) ... laku noć (which is more usual)

Eurola Activity: 5 / 1,935
Joined: Dec 2, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:06pm /  #23
Another try:




Eurola Activity: 5 / 1,935
Joined: Dec 2, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:09pm /  #24
Here is the link:
The map is in the middle of the page...

ancientweb.org/Poland/index.htm

P.S. How do you post the big maps?

Patrycja19 Activity: 62 / 2,721
Joined: Oct 31, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:16pm /  #25
Quoting: Crow
I say, we are capable for big bussines


agree

Quoting: Crow
If USA has such a rich history such is Polish or Slavic in general, USA would make even bigger bussines then they make it now.


this is another thread topic :) but what are the most sucessful in poland ?

Eurola Activity: 5 / 1,935
Joined: Dec 2, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:21pm /  #26
Quoting: Patrycja19
but what are the most sucessful in poland


Tesco, Biedronka...(sorry, just being sarcastic)

Crow Activity: 113 / 3,634
Joined: Feb 14, 2007 ♂
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:31pm /  #27
Quoting: Patrycja19


Quoting: Crow
I say, we are capable for big bussines


agree

Of, course. Then, what`s the problem with us?

Quoting: Patrycja19
this is another thread topic :)

Why? Any thread is good for bussines, as any other place. Everything is about bussines, all is economy...

Go ask Greeks, Italians, USA Cowboys (many others) ... they make good bussines of history. Even if that history isn`t always their own history but, they managed to sell even fog. Some others can`t sell even truth

Quoting: Patrycja19
what are the most sucessful in poland ?

I have an idea but, I`m not sure. I am from Serbia. You tell me

Why would somebody invest his money in Poland?

Eurola Activity: 5 / 1,935
Joined: Dec 2, 2006 ♀
  Sep 29, 2007, 09:53pm /  #28
Quoting: Crow
Go ask Greeks

I think they do better as business people (restaurant owners) in US than in their own country...They should take care of the stray cats and dogs running on the streets of Athens and other tourist places before considering themselves a fully civilized nation and a member of EU. The Acropolis times are over.

Lukasz Activity: 56 / 1,788
Joined: Sep 1, 2007 ♂
  Sep 30, 2007, 09:38am /  #29
Polish history in 10 minutes time



Kaczor Duck Activity: 2 / 97
Joined: Jun 20, 2007 ♂
  Sep 30, 2007, 05:21pm /  #30
Quoting: Patrycja19

ty KD.. that will be interesting to read :) thanks Dobranoc


Patrycja
it is before then
it is:
Vol1
the origins to 1795

God's Playground
a history of Poland

by

Norman Davies
Columbia publishing

Quoting: Lukasz
Polish history in 10 minutes time

Thanks Luksaz
was a good film and education.

Wawryzniec

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