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Ancient Polish History thread


Mala_Elf   Sep 27, 2007, 02:46pm /  #1
I want to learn Ancient Polish History and all of the Kings, as much as possible. But I don't have time to read a great deal of material. Could anyone start a History Thread which has some kind of order to it? I would be so grateful =)


osiol   Sep 27, 2007, 02:53pm /  #2
Perhaps someone could start with the furthest back in time, and try to work forwards from there.
Tall order, I know.

I was talking to someone about Stonehenge. It got me thinking: what is the oldest surviving relic in Poland?
Any standing stones? That sort of thing.

Grzegorz_   Sep 27, 2007, 02:56pm /  #3
Baptism of Poland

The Baptism of Poland (Polish: Chrzest Polski) was the event in 966 that signified the beginning of the Christianization of Poland, commencing with the baptism of Mieszko I, who was the first ruler of the Polish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_Poland


Poznan   Sep 27, 2007, 03:01pm /  #5
Biskupin is probably the oldest known settlement and still has ruins there mostly of wood, I believe. It dates from before Christ, so it is quite old. It is near Poznan.

Mala_Elf   Sep 27, 2007, 03:18pm /  #6
Thank you, Grzegorz_; this is wonderful =)

Crow Edited by: Crow    Sep 27, 2007, 03:22pm /  #7
Ancient history of Poles... finaly something realy interesting

I can try to contribute to this trip into past. Can I?

On he first look I noticed this ...

Quoting: osiol
I was talking to someone about Stonehenge.

Well, according to genetic foundings, there is possibility that ancestral culture of Stonehenge builders was some ancient culture of central Europe. Which culture that can be question is now?

He is the earliest metalworker known from Britain, and his grave contained the earliest gold objects in Britain. Tests on his teeth showed that he came from central Europe.

Source:

Stonehenge 'builders' found

RUSSELL JACKSON

//news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=707072004



Quoting: Poznan
Biskupin is probably the oldest known settlement and still has ruins there mostly of wood, I believe. It dates from before Christ, so it is quite old. It is near Poznan.

Far from that, that Biskupin represent `oldest known settlement` but, you are on the good way to undertstand meaning of Biskupin if you say that it represent remain (was part) of probably oldest culture of old world (Europe).

More about ...

Biskupin (Poland)

archaeology.about.com/od/bterms/g/biskupin.htm

The Biskupin site is a fortified settlement in Poland and, belonging to the Lausitz (Late Bronze age) and Hallstatt C (Early Iron age) cultures. That was a walled settlement of about 800-1000 people in the Warta River Valley about 2700 BC. The site was discovered in the 1930s and excavated by Jozef Kostrzewsk of Poznan University.


Grzegorz_ Edited by: Grzegorz_    Sep 27, 2007, 05:18pm /  #8
After Baptism Poland became internationally recognized state. It was created in 10th century - some of western Slavic tribes were united by the strongest of them - Polanie (that's why the name Polska). Duke Mieszko I is the first historically known ruler of Poland. Before him there was probably Siemomysł, Leszek and Siemowit but the last two were probably only rulers of a tribal state. They created dynasty of Piasts. The first capital was Gniezno - now a small town near Poznań. Mieszko I was probably born in 930 and died on 25th May 992. Poland took Christianity from Czechs. Mieszko got married with a Czech princess Dobrawa.

Pratush   Sep 27, 2007, 09:55pm /  #9
the ancient history of Poland would basically go into ancient slavic history and mythology....

Patrycja19   Sep 27, 2007, 11:36pm /  #10
Quoting: Crow
Ancient history of Poles... finaly something realy interesting


amen!

keep it going

what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?

I truley find this amazing, because if it werent for their preseverance and courage
where would we be today?

hold your glass high to them.. Ancestors!

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Sep 28, 2007, 06:58am /  #11
first well known battle ... Germans vs Poles part 1 ;)))

wedwe

Second phase of the battle

rw3rer

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Sep 28, 2007, 07:05am /  #12
our old borders (by the way simillar to todays)

werewew

ConstantineK Edited by: ConstantineK    Sep 28, 2007, 08:27am /  #13
Quoting: Patrycja19
Quoting: Crow
Ancient history of Poles... finaly something realy interesting


amen!

keep it going

what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?

I truley find this amazing, because if it werent for their preseverance and courage
where would we be today?

hold your glass high to them.. Ancestors!


I dont know exactly about Polish nations, but russian peoples for example, were settled on the present territory approx. at the 7-th cent. and played imortant role in Byzantine politic at 8 cent. But Bulgars even older they settled on Balcans at 5-6 cent and emmideatly orgnized pretty large state, and played huge role not only in this region but in all european's affairs untill Turcic invasion.

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Sep 28, 2007, 08:40am /  #14
Quoting: ConstantineK
I dont know exactly about Polish nations, but russian peoples for example, were settled on the present territory approx. at the 7-th cent. and played imortant role in Byzantine politic at 8 cent. But Bulgars even older they settled on Balcans at 5-6 cent and emmideatly orgnized pretty large state, and played huge role not only in this region but in all europe affairs untill Turcic invasion.



LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)

and work on feeling of self-respect ;)

where are Russians ? Poles are noticable in two places (todays Ukraina and Poland)

dweerfdf

ConstantineK   Sep 28, 2007, 09:26am /  #15
Quoting: Lukasz
Quoting: ConstantineK
I dont know exactly about Polish nations, but russian peoples for example, were settled on the present territory approx. at the 7-th cent. and played imortant role in Byzantine politic at 8 cent. But Bulgars even older they settled on Balcans at 5-6 cent and emmideatly orgnized pretty large state, and played huge role not only in this region but in all europe affairs untill Turcic invasion.



LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)

and work on feeling of self-respect ;)

where are Russians ? Poles are noticable in two places (todays Ukraina and Poland)


Russians and Ukranians, are the same nation. They deverse only by dialects

ConstantineK   Sep 28, 2007, 09:36am /  #16
Quoting: Lukasz
LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)

and work on feeling of self-respect ;)

where are Russians ? Poles are noticable in two places (todays Ukraina and Poland)


Moreover it's wrong map, Bulgaria never been a Kingdom, it was Tsardom or Empire.

ConstantineK   Sep 28, 2007, 09:40am /  #17
Quoting: Lukasz
LOL :) I see you have mision. You try to prove that Poles are not so acient as Russians :) no way :)


No I hadnt any ideas to present Russians as an eldest brother in Slavic family. Poles and Russians approximetly have one age!

osiol   Sep 28, 2007, 09:43am /  #18
Quoting: ConstantineK
Tsardom

Tsar derives from a Roman name, Caesar.
An Empire can be a monarchy or republic.
These are just titles.
Monarchy = Kingdom
I am posting this from the United Queendom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Lukasz   Sep 28, 2007, 09:43am /  #19
Quoting: ConstantineK
No I hadnt any ideas to present Russians as an eldest brother in Slavic family. Poles and Russians approximetly have one age!


ok, lets leave it :)

Grzegorz_ Edited by: Grzegorz_    Sep 29, 2007, 07:57am /  #20
Quoting: Patrycja19
what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?


Yes. Polanie, Mazowszanie, Wi¶lanie, Pomorzanie, ¦lężanie and many smaller tribes.



Some of them created their own states like Wi¶lanie, who had a quite strong state already in IXth century but later went under infuence of Czechs. At the beginning of Xth century Polanie started expansion and in the middle of the century except their homeland (Poznań area now called Wielkopolska - Greater Poland) controlled also Mazowsze (Warsaw area) and Kujawy (Bydgoszcz area). Before the end of Xth century they united (partly willingly , partly by force) other tribes and controlled area similar to modern day Poland (map in post 12).

Grzegorz_ Edited by: Grzegorz_    Sep 29, 2007, 08:27am /  #21
In 967 the Polish ruler defeated German Count Wichman and his allies. In 972 at the Battle of Cedynia, Mieszko defeated Hodo of the Eastern March. Mieszko I died in 992. His successor was his son Bolesław Chrobry (Bolesław the brave).

Bolesław I Chrobry



Grzegorz_   Sep 29, 2007, 08:47am /  #22
Bolesław I Chrobry was born in 967, died on 17th June 1025.

Boleslaw continued the work of his father. At the Congress of Gniezno (1000) he was able to persuade Emperor Otto III to give his permission to create the first Polish archbishopric. Otto III died two years later.

Frustrated in his efforts to form an equal partnership with the Holy Roman Empire, Boleslaw gained some non-Polish territory in a series of wars against his imperial overlord in 1003 and 1004. Boleslaw I conquered the imperial March of Meissen (Polish Mi¶nia) and also Lausitz (Latin Lusatia, Polish Łużyce). Boleslaw conquered and made himself duke of Bohemia in 1003, but lost the territory the following year. Then turned eastward. He defeated the Rus' and stormed Kyiv in 1018. Shortly before his death in 1025, Boleslaw won international recognition as the first king of a fully sovereign Poland.

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Sep 29, 2007, 09:09am /  #23
yes Chrobry was OK ;)

rdwer3e3

Crow Edited by: Crow    Sep 29, 2007, 04:04pm /  #24
Quoting: Patrycja19
what were they before 966?

scattered tribes? what other tribes existed?

Let`s investigate

Quoting: Grzegorz_
Polanie, Mazowszanie, Wi¶lanie, Pomorzanie, ¦lężanie and many smaller tribes.

Just for comparision... Sarmatian tribes:

- Abii, Achaei, Acibi, Agathyrsi, Agoritae, Alans (Alauni, Halani, Alanorsi), Alontae, Amadoci, Amaxobi, Amazones, Anartophracti, Aorsi (Adorsi, Alanorsi), Arichi, Arsietae, Asaei, Aspurgiani, Atmoni, Avarini
- Basilici, BasternaeBessi, Biessi, Bosporani Bulgarians, Bodini, Borusci, Burgiones
- Carbones, Careotae, Cariones, Carpians, Caucasii, Cercetae, Chaenides, Chuni, Cimmerians, Costoboci, Conapseni
- Diduri
- Exobygitae
- Fenni (Tacitus was not sure if Fenni were Sarmatians or Germanic people)
- Hamaksoikoi, Heniochi, Hippophagi
- Galactophagi, Galindae, Gelones, Gerri, Gevini, Greater Venedae, Gythones
- Hippemolgi, Hippopodes, Hyperboreans, Horouathos
- Iaxamatae, Iazyges, Igylliones, Isondae
- Materi, Melanchlaeni, Melanchlani, Metibi, Modoca, Mysi
- Nasci, Navari, Nesioti
- Ombrones, Ophlones, Orinei, Osili, Ossi
- Pagyritae, Perierbidi, Peucini, Piengitae, Phrungundiones, Phthirophagi, Psessi
- Rheucanali, Rhoxolani
- Saboci, Sacani, Saii, Sargati, Savari, Scythian Alani, Senaraei, Serboi, Sidoni, Siraces, Stavani, Sturni, Suani, Suanocolchi, Suardeni, Sudini, Sulones
- Tanaitae, Tauroscythae, Thatemeotae, Tigri, Toreccadae, Transmontani, Tusci, Tyrambae, Tyrangitae
- Udae
- Vali, Veltae, Venedae, Vibiones
- Zacatae, Zinchi

Surce:
Sarmatians
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians

NOTE: Have in mind that all first chronicles were written by Greek and Roman authors. So, first written data about Proto Slavs went thru Greek/Latin transcription. Still, we can notice names which are obviously Slavic.


This can be interesting considering that modern science (on the base of old data and newest scientific results) established connection between ancestors of modern Slavic nations (with that Polish too), old Sarmatians, Scythians, ancient Aryans, etc.

See on the same link


Geography of Ptolemy, which includes the entire Balto-Slavic territory in Sarmatia, and on the other that this same region was Scythia. By "Sarmatia", Jordanes means only the Aryan territory. The Sarmatians therefore did come from the Scythians.

Then


"As Goths advanced near to the Euxine (Black Sea) they encountered a purer race of Sarmatians, the Iazyges, the Alani and the Roxolani." Sarmatian tribes were no doubt Slavic. Jordanes gave the history of interaction between the Sclaveni and the Goths as they moved from Scandinavia circa 200 AD. "Sarmatian tribes were distinguished by Sclavonic language."

Source:
gog & magog
geocities.com/amuse_amenace/gog.htm

The ancestors of the Slavs are believed to have included the Sarmatians and Scythians. Moving west from central Asia, they settled in eastern and southeastern Europe during the 2nd and 3rd millennia BC.

Source:
Hutchinson encyclopedia
Slav
encyclopedia.farlex.com/Slavs

Using the decoded Scithian-Sarmatian-Meotian calendar, one can decode the records of this Western Slavonic calendar.

Source:
THE INTERPRETATION OF THE WESTERN SLAVONIC INSCRIPTIONS
by Sergei V. Rjabchikov, Krasnodar, RUSSIA
public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl4.htm

Besides, not all the Scythians spoke an Iranian language (Trubachev 1981). In my opinion, the Scythian (Sarmatian) language is the Proto-Slavonic one. Other Proto-Slavonic dialects are the languages of the Pelasges (the writing of Linear A, and its decorative version on the Phaistos disk) and of the Etruscans (Rjabchikov 1998a).

Earlier I decoded the text of the Phaistos disk which is a Proto-Slavonic calendar (Rjabchikov 1998a: 6-9). As a result, the god Hor (Old Russian Hors, Egyptian Horus) with the epithet Kolo 'Round' and the god Vit (Slavonic Vit with different epithets, Indo-Aryan Savitar) were the symbols of the winter solstice; the bull god Yarila was associated with the spring (1).

Source:
THE SCYTHIANS, SARMATIANS, MEOTIANS, RUSSIANS AND CIRCASSIANS: INTERPRETATION OF THE ANCIENT CULTURES
by Sergei V. Rjabchikov
public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl2.htm



Quoting: osiol
Tsar derives from a Roman name, Caesar.

Truth

Patrycja19   Sep 29, 2007, 08:34pm /  #25
Quoting: Crow
Carbones, Careotae, Cariones,


crow, not to poke any fun at any names, but I typed in carbone and it brought up
alot of family resturants and businesses... so the tribes managed to make it to
the united states and start their own businesses :)))

and they been in business since before 966 :))

Quoting: Crow
Moving west from central Asia, they settled in eastern and southeastern Europe during the 2nd and 3rd millennia BC.


this is what I question also.. so Poles , Russian, German etc all came from central
Asia?

Patrycja19   Sep 29, 2007, 08:39pm /  #26
Quoting: Grzegorz_
Yes. Polanie, Mazowszanie, Wi¶lanie, Pomorzanie, ¦lężanie and many smaller tribes.


why the seperation? if they are all same people? why not be one tribe?

Kaczor Duck   Sep 29, 2007, 08:40pm /  #27
my friend gave me a bok on polish history going back to the 900's maybe sooner, i will lookfor it tomorrow and post the info on it, it is good.
dobronoc

Patrycja19   Sep 29, 2007, 08:47pm /  #28
Quoting: Kaczor Duck
going back to the 900's maybe sooner, i will lookfor it tomorrow and post the info on it, it is good.


ty KD.. that will be interesting to read :) thanks Dobranoc

Crow Edited by: Crow    Sep 29, 2007, 08:56pm /  #29
Quoting: Patrycja19


Quoting: Crow
Carbones, Careotae, Cariones,


crow, not to poke any fun at any names, but I typed in carbone and it brought up
alot of family resturants and businesses... so the tribes managed to make it to
the united states and start their own businesses :)))

and they been in business since before 966 :))

Let me tell you something

If USA has such a rich history such is Polish or Slavic in general, USA would make even bigger bussines then they make it now.

So, tell me... What`s the problem with Poles/Slavs?

I say, we are capable for big bussines

Quoting: Kaczor Duck
dobronoc

Da, dobra noć

ili isto to na drugi način (or to say it on other way) ... laku noć (which is more usual)

Eurola Edited by: Eurola    Sep 29, 2007, 08:59pm /  #30
Crow, you're going to be proud of this map... Aye, the file is too big..

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