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Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land?


Chenzo   Jan 14, 2007, 11:06am /  #1
My ancestors used to live in what is now Ukraine, but used to be southeastern Poland. My family considers themselves Polish and not Ukrainian. I was just wondering about what others are feeling. I'm not saying that I was indoctrinated with hate against Ukies, but from what I've heard, Poland should have legally gotten a little more out of the deal. Apparently, though, Poles just don't care about it and are happy to have a denuclearized nieghbor on the eastern border.


alexandra   Jan 14, 2007, 11:36am /  #2
You don't understand history. Ukraine didn't steal Polish land. In the same way the Polish didn't steal German territory. It was Stalin, Roosvelt and Churchill who decided for these countries. Of course Poland wasn't happy to lose its eastern territory but now it makes no sense to open this discussion about borders. In the same way the Germans could say "give us our land back", and many other countries which lost in the last war. We don't want another war only because we lost our beloved Lwów. I live in Wroc³aw where there are many Poles from present Ukraine. They miss their land but understand they cannot change history.

Grzegorz_   Jan 14, 2007, 11:40am /  #3
But Poland stole that land first. :)

alexandra   Jan 14, 2007, 11:50am /  #4
Grzegorz, stole from whom? Lwów was always a Polish city in all its history, never Ukrainian. What's more Ukraine didn't exist as an indepenent country till 1990. There was a nation but without territory.

Grzegorz_   Jan 14, 2007, 11:52am /  #5
Quoting: alexandra, Post #4
Lwów was always a Polish city in all its history, never Ukrainian.


What's before 13th century ?

alexandra   Jan 14, 2007, 11:54am /  #6
Don't be funny :-)

miranda   Jan 14, 2007, 12:00pm /  #7
Quoting: alexandra, Post #4
Lwów was always a Polish city in all its history, never Ukrainian.

is that what you have learned on school Ola?

alexandra   Jan 14, 2007, 12:20pm /  #8
Yes, I've learnt about it at school but not only. See below

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w

Since 1339 Lwów belonged to Poland (before to the Russians and Polish, it changed frequently). Since 1772 Poland lost its independence for about 120 years and Lwów like for example Kraków became a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but never lost its Polishness. Since 1920 it again was a part of Poland till 1939.

Grzegorz_   Jan 14, 2007, 12:25pm /  #9
Quoting: alexandra, Post #6
Don't be funny :-)


:(

miranda   Jan 14, 2007, 12:33pm /  #10
Quoting: alexandra, Post #8
Yes, I've learnt about it at school but not only.

well Ola, I am Ukrainian born a raised in Poland and i will always consider Lwow as an Ukrainian city, however I know that there were a lot of Polish living there, as well as russians receantly, Jewish and so on.
It is an Ukrainian city and it always will be.

alexandra   Jan 14, 2007, 12:48pm /  #11
My family comes from Lwów so I know what I'm saying. Lwów belonged to Poland and this is FACT. I'm not writing about different cities like Kijów (Kijew) but about Lwów which is more Polish than other cities because has a Polish soul. Now it is a Ukrainian city and I respect it but why don't you respect the history?

miranda   Jan 14, 2007, 12:52pm /  #12
Quoting: alexandra, Post #11
Now it is a Ukrainian city and I respect it but why don't you respect the history?

I respect the history Ola, the FACT is that's Ukrainian now.

miranda Edited by: miranda    Jan 14, 2007, 12:53pm /  #13
Quoting: alexandra, Post #11
Lwów belonged to Poland and this is FACT.

Szczecin belonged to Germany for a long time and now it's Polish, what are you gonna say to that?

alexandra   Jan 14, 2007, 12:58pm /  #14
Szczecin (like Wroc³aw where I live) belonged to Germany and I don't deny. It's a German city which now belongs to Poland like Lwów which is a Ukrainian city but used to be Polish.

Eurola   Jan 14, 2007, 01:09pm /  #15
Ladies, this may help :)


kresy.co.uk/intro.html


kresy.co.uk/descriptions.html

miranda Edited by: miranda    Jan 14, 2007, 01:54pm /  #16
Quoting: alexandra, Post #14

Szczecin (like Wroc³aw where I live) belonged to Germany and I don't deny. It's a German city which now belongs to Poland like Lwów which is a Ukrainian city but used to be Polish.

that's my point
Thanks for the map Eurola.

alexandra   Jan 15, 2007, 02:02am /  #17
You seem to hate Poland but I don't know why. You ignore all arguments. Discussion with you makes no sense.

miranda Edited by: miranda    Jan 15, 2007, 04:38am /  #18
Quoting: alexandra, Post #17
You seem to hate Poland but I don't know why.

Ola, I don't and I don't know where you got this idea from. I like Poland and Polish culture since it's part of my heritage as well. That doesn't mean we cannot have a discussion, does it? I know better than to argue about Lwow - it's a never ending one.
Lets drop the whole thing.

professays   Jan 16, 2007, 06:11am /  #19
I believe Ukraine should restore its nuclear potential and demand the return of the Ukrainian ethnic territories in the eastern provinces of the morden Polish state.

Chenzo   Jan 19, 2007, 10:12pm /  #20
I believe it belongs to Poland because, well, it actually has always belonged to Poland before you communist Ukrainians had to interfere.

semper_malus   Jan 20, 2007, 07:48am /  #21
Lwów was a polish city on the Ukrainian land.

David_18   Jan 20, 2007, 12:52pm /  #22
:)OMG
1. Lwow is a Polish city and and belonged to Poland for hundreds of years.
2. Kiev belonged to Poland for a very long time.
3. Ukraina never existed Lithuania gave the ukrainian lands as a gift to the Polish crown.
4. Most of the people that lived on this lands was peasants that was serfs to richs Polish magnates.
5. Most of the citys in ukraine/ former Poland was raised by rich Polish magnates.

Kind regards David

miranda Edited by: miranda    Jan 20, 2007, 01:24pm /  #23
Quoting: David_18, Post #22

OMG
1. Lwow is a Polish city and and belonged to Poland for hundreds of years.
2. Kiev belonged to Poland for a very long time.
3. Ukraina never existed Lithuania gave the ukrainian lands as a gift to the Polish crown.
4. Most of the people that lived on this lands was peasants that was serfs to richs Polish magnates.
5. Most of the citys in ukraine/ former Poland was raised by rich Polish magnates.

that was the past David, so stop living in it. Now Ukraine is an independant coutry,even though it has it's problems I am glad that it would be difficult for the Poles to claim any of it's land. Don't forget that Ukraine is only getting stronger even though there is a lot of Russian influance there.
Since you are such patriot why are you living in Sweden not in Poland?
Whe don't you move to Poland and have the Polish experiance for yourself, ha.
Or better, go to Ukraine and say what you just wrote here - smart a**. Nobody would even listen to you.

David_18   Jan 20, 2007, 01:43pm /  #24
Quoting: miranda, Post #23
that was the past David, so stop living in it. Now Ukraine is an independant coutry,even though it has it's problems I am glad that it would be difficult for the Poles to claim any of it's land.


I think its a good idea that we get the lands back becuse then we could REPAIR all the citys becuse the ukrainians DONT, when i went to Lwow and other former Polish citys, the only thing i saw was unrepared buildings and roads.

Quoting: miranda, Post #23
Don't forget that Ukraine is only getting stronger even though there is a lot of Russian influance there.


you are getting stronger becuse we "Poles" helped you and backed you up in the orange revulotion, remember that??

Quoting: miranda, Post #23
Since you are such patriot why are you living in Sweden not in Poland?

I dident choose to live in sweden, my mother did. I will move back when i get the economy for it.

Quoting: miranda, Post #23
Whe don't you move to Poland and have the Polish experiance for yourself, ha.
Or better, go to Ukraine and say what you just wrote here - smart a**. Nobody would even listen to you.


Im flying to Poland 4 times a year. I have been in ukraine and claimed back my familys lands, You so called ukrainians took our resident near Lwow after WWII, right now its another Ukrainian family that lives in our resident and have OUR furniture/antics, Youre lame goverment will not give it back becuse they sad the house was empty when the new settlers took over it. And thats a lie, my family fleed the Ukrainians becuse they murdered all the Poles specialy the rich ones after WWII.

miranda   Jan 20, 2007, 02:03pm /  #25
Quoting: David_18, Post #24
I think its a good idea that we get the lands back becuse then we could REPAIR all the citys becuse the ukrainians DONT, when i went to Lwow and other former Polish citys, the only thing i saw was unrepared buildings and roads.

you are a funny guy, Poland doesn't even have the money to sustain their own economy, never mind repairing buildings in Ukraine.
Quoting: David_18, Post #24
you are getting stronger becuse we "Poles" helped you and backed you up in the orange revulotion, remember that??

really, how did you help - especially you - personally. Poland suported Orange Rev, because they started to get afraid of Ukraine and I was in Poland during that time, the support was great in the media and Walesa went there too - he is just a former president and does not hold any power per se.
Quoting: David_18, Post #24
I dident choose to live in sweden, my mother did. I will move back when i get the economy for it.

economy - exactely, you can wait for a long time Dave:)
Quoting: David_18, Post #24
Im flying to Poland 4 times a year. I have been in ukraine and claimed back my familys lands, You so called ukrainians took our resident near Lwow after WWII, right now its another Ukrainian family that lives in our resident and have OUR furniture/antics, Youre lame goverment will not give it back becuse they sad the house was empty when the new settlers took over it. And thats a lie, my family fleed the Ukrainians becuse they murdered all the Poles specialy the rich ones after WWII.

that's nice and I understand but my family lost everything during the WWII too ( Iam actually surprised that they lived through such horrid times), so you are not alone. You seem to be bitter and you even weren't born at that time. I hope you can get whatever you have lost, but being realistic here, it's highly unlikely:)

miranda   Jan 20, 2007, 02:05pm /  #26
Quoting: David_18, Post #24
You so called ukrainians took our resident near Lwow after WWII

I think you are mixing me with somebody else here so watch out what you saying here.

Grzegorz_   Jan 20, 2007, 02:34pm /  #27
Quoting: David_18, Post #22
2. Kiev belonged to Poland for a very long time.


So ?

David_18   Jan 20, 2007, 03:12pm /  #28
Quoting: miranda, Post #25
you are a funny guy, Poland doesn't even have the money to sustain their own economy, never mind repairing buildings in Ukraine.


Well right now we are repairng all building up Poland and are repairing the infrastrukture in the country. WE do something while the ukrainians only sitting on thier communist ass and dont do ****!!

Quoting: miranda, Post #25
really, how did you help - especially you - personally. Poland suported Orange Rev, because they started to get afraid of Ukraine


We did help them my family gave money to the orange revolutionaris.
Why should Poland be afraid of ukraine??

Quoting: miranda, Post #25
economy - exactely, you can wait for a long time Dave


Yes i will whait when my economy is good, if im moving back i want to have money to build upp our resident in prodnic and do some good profit business. Better to come back whealty then poor.

Quoting: miranda, Post #25
You seem to be bitter and you even weren't born at that time.


Im bitter becuse im A polish history fanatic. And im bitter becuse iff all this dident happend then i would live in Lwow and live like a king!! :)

Quoting: miranda, Post #26
I think you are mixing me with somebody else here so watch out what you saying here.


I dident mean you personaly!!:)

Quoting: Grzegorz_, Post #27
So ?

Quoting: alexandra, Post #11
My family comes from Lwów so I know what I'm saying. Lwów belonged to Poland and this is FACT. I'm not writing about different cities like Kijów (Kijew)


i just pointed that Kiev has been a Polish city.

Kind regards David

miranda   Jan 20, 2007, 03:27pm /  #29
Quoting: David_18, Post #28
Well right now we are repairng all building up Poland and are repairing the infrastrukture in the country. WE do something while the ukrainians only sitting on thier communist ass and dont do ****!!

Dave - I just retured from Poland a week ago since I have a family there and I lived there for some time after the transition, so I am fully aware what's going on in oarchitecture, bussines etc. I receantly saw pictures from Lviw and Kiyew and there is a lot of renovation going on there as well, so I don't think that all Ukrainians are sitting on their a**, as you put it nicely.
Quoting: David_18, Post #28
We did help them my family gave money to the orange revolutionaris.
Why should Poland be afraid of ukraine??

that's nice of your family. I think that there is a lot of mixed feeling bewteen Poles and Ukrainians and it's going to take a long time for them to be resolved, if ever. The truth is that both countries need to become economically stronger and it takes time.
Quoting: David_18, Post #28
Im bitter becuse im A polish history fanatic. And im bitter becuse iff all this dident happend then i would live in Lwow and live like a king!!

I am sorry about that but if I followed your logic I should be living in a nice house in Bieszczady and catering to tourists right now:) . I am not bitter becaue it will make my life unbearable - I think. I am realistic and I try to see what's possible within my means.

All the best to you

Chenzo   Jan 23, 2007, 11:09pm /  #30
Quoting: David_18, Post #28
Im bitter becuse im A polish history fanatic.

I'm bitter because Ukrainians killed my cousins and aunt right in front of their father, and then shot my uncle in the arm. He has since had to get it amputated. He has one arm and no family. Thank you communists.

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